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Late war japanese economy

 
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Late war japanese economy - 4/16/2013 5:41:51 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6395
Joined: 3/18/2011
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Hi all,

in my game against QBall, we're getting close to semptember 1943 and it's time for me to draw some conclusions about the Japanese mid-late war economy so to be able to plan the last 2 years of war.

I've managed to save 1,950,000 HIs till now. My question is: how much do you think it's needed for 1944/1945?
I wanna be able to draw a line in the sand and stop the HI production before i run out of fuel... How much is too much? With the present rate of saving, i think i'll be able to reach 3,000,000 by june 1944. Will 3M be enough to get to mid 1945?
Post #: 1
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/16/2013 6:10:33 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 1901
Joined: 2/13/2004
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I am in October '44 and I really do not understand this desire to pool all of this HI as Japan. By pooling all this HI you are reducing your production during a period of simi parity with the Allies. Then you are going to use this excees HI to produce stuff when the Allies have both a quantive and qualitivative advantages over Japan.

I currently have about 50K of Hi in October '44. To keep my fuel and industry balanced, I simply shut down factories, to balance the system out. For example I have completely stopped all Merchent factories months ago. I also boosted up my plane and engine factories during '42/'43 and now i can turn some of them off depending on my needs and the numbers in the pools. This makes a lot more sense than reducing my production at a time when it really matters. Especially to build stuff that will not hold up well against the Allied forces.

But like any game, what is great, you can play your way and I can play my way and all is good

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/16/2013 8:36:03 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 3213
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I am in October '44 and I really do not understand this desire to pool all of this HI as Japan. By pooling all this HI you are reducing your production during a period of simi parity with the Allies. Then you are going to use this excees HI to produce stuff when the Allies have both a quantive and qualitivative advantages over Japan.

I currently have about 50K of Hi in October '44. To keep my fuel and industry balanced, I simply shut down factories, to balance the system out. For example I have completely stopped all Merchent factories months ago. I also boosted up my plane and engine factories during '42/'43 and now i can turn some of them off depending on my needs and the numbers in the pools. This makes a lot more sense than reducing my production at a time when it really matters. Especially to build stuff that will not hold up well against the Allied forces.

But like any game, what is great, you can play your way and I can play my way and all is good


I'd argue that it's possible that overzealous expansion can actually cost you more (or any expansion in the case of LI), which is why people save up HI and then turn it off later - so that they can better control whether or not they have fuel and all that jazz for the defensive operations they want to conduct later in the war. For example, expanding aircraft production immensely such that you're building at (say) 100% faster than other people would, but not saving any HI in the process (and expending lots of supplies to expand those factories), whereas a more optimal course might be to build 50% faster for a longer period of time - saving those supplies and HI expenditures from expanding, as well as not burning through your HI as quickly. In a real world analogy, if I'm driving a car and have to make a sudden course adjustment to avoid crashing, I'd rather it be going 35 mph than 55 mph. Not that I don't agree with you about making the most out of the period of semi-parity, and lengthening it as much as possible, through quick production early ;).


GJ - it's a lot of work, and maybe somebody has laid the framework already, but you can probably calculate how much HI you'll need for pilots through the end of the war... That's the biggest chunk, probably. Then you can calculate the HI needed for the (few?) ships you want to build. Those two areas should stay pretty constant and aren't really affected (much) by the pace of action. Plane losses and Arm/Veh points needed to fill out units, however... I would probably look at the historical rates so far, what Allied advances you might expect, and try to do a bloody/conservative estimate of losses and therefore production needs. I'd probably revisit this on a monthly basis, but doing something like this should give you an idea of how much you need to have stockpiled.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 3
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/16/2013 8:51:18 PM   
RisingSun


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From: Clifton Park, NY
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Well in reality, they or the Japan didnt really saved up much. They muster all they could to keep the war efforts going as much as possible. I know its not easy to play the game that knowing what will happen in the future. Playing with AIs or players, its really doesnt matter, just need to know your enemy plans and hit them where it hurt. Now i am not sure how the Intelligence Reports will be like, IE: USA knew they were coming to Midway and waiting for them or caught Yamamoto in the Solomon Islands, etcs.

Of course you would want the best aircrafts you can get your hands on, but the pilot's experience is very important also. My questions is how do you know if that aircrafts is better than C over A? Wish they added more complex details on prototype models to figure out they arent effective then move to better aircrafts. Try to roleplay out the scenario and also try not know what will happen down the roads in history. Of course you going to know USA have long range bombers, but dont know about the new B-29 models yet, and if they get their hands on Mariana Islands, well you going to be in serious bombing raids all over Japan itself.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 4
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/16/2013 9:17:40 PM   
Numdydar

 

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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Actually Tracker allows you to compare aircraft to each other. Plus you can export the data to a spreadsheet and do even more analysis. That is what I did before I started my current game. I decided from the start what planes/engines I would not build and those I would concentrate one. I will admit that the Helen was a tough decision since it is the only plane that uses a specific engine. But I went with it since it was a pretty decent plane for the early part of the war.

Te above was with PDU On of course . If you REALLY want to see how all the different plane types work in the game, leave PDU Off (which I have done as Japan as well) and you will see how much fun you can have with flying all the craptistic plane types Japan made. Of course I did find that I was forced to use Nates a lot more with PDU Off than On lol.

(in reply to RisingSun)
Post #: 5
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/17/2013 4:35:51 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
Joined: 6/6/2008
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GJ,

To answer your question, it all comes down to two things:
1. When you do run out of oil/fuel?
2. How many aircraft do you want to produce after that?

1M HI will build you ~27,000 1E aircraft, which seems like a lot, but it's less than one year production. This simple look also does not take into account the ARM and VEH points you will need for replacements. A full ID is about 100,000 HI. You get a lot of units beginning in late '44 through '46 and if you want them arriving in strength you need a lot of ARM/VEH pts @ 6 HI per pt.

These are all just rough numbers. You can use tracker to calc it all out fairly precisely. I will just suggest that there are really good reasons that MikeS targets about 4M HI for late '44. That should be enough to get you through to '46 ...

I will also say that one of the scariest days in the career of an IJ player is the first time he runs completely out of fuel/oil. HI production stops cold and you begin watching those really big stockpiles start to drain down knowing that they will never fill up again and worrying the whole time if there will be enough.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 6
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/17/2013 9:34:12 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6395
Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

GJ,

To answer your question, it all comes down to two things:
1. When you do run out of oil/fuel?
2. How many aircraft do you want to produce after that?

1M HI will build you ~27,000 1E aircraft, which seems like a lot, but it's less than one year production. This simple look also does not take into account the ARM and VEH points you will need for replacements. A full ID is about 100,000 HI. You get a lot of units beginning in late '44 through '46 and if you want them arriving in strength you need a lot of ARM/VEH pts @ 6 HI per pt.

These are all just rough numbers. You can use tracker to calc it all out fairly precisely. I will just suggest that there are really good reasons that MikeS targets about 4M HI for late '44. That should be enough to get you through to '46 ...

I will also say that one of the scariest days in the career of an IJ player is the first time he runs completely out of fuel/oil. HI production stops cold and you begin watching those really big stockpiles start to drain down knowing that they will never fill up again and worrying the whole time if there will be enough.


Scary numbers...indeed.
4M for late 44?... mmmm if i save 4K HI daily, on average, i should be able to get to 2.3M by Jan 1944...which means....3.7M by the end of 1944... not enough.... and i doubt i can save 4K daily considering the Arm and Veh demands of 1944... by now i kept my Arm and Veh levels to 20k and 100k, as suggested in several threads, but i haven't started yet to recieve all those Infantry units that start arriving in late 43...

It's really an hard task being in charge of the Japanese war economy... i look at my numbers every day and i'm never happy about them... there so much land to garrison... so many supplies to burn to buidl forts and to feed all those men...

Damn...i love this game!

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 7
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/17/2013 12:16:27 PM   
Zigurat666


Posts: 258
Joined: 9/26/2008
Status: offline
Not to mention that pooled HI isnt the only asset. Air,vehicles,naval and merchants use their own pooled stocks after using stockpiled HI. If those are high I find less necessity for a massive HI pool/

< Message edited by Zigurat666 -- 4/17/2013 12:39:21 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 8
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/17/2013 1:16:54 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 637
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline
Just reading about the economy is scary for me.

It will be a few years I think before I even try to tackle it.

(in reply to Zigurat666)
Post #: 9
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/17/2013 4:07:56 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 3213
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

Just reading about the economy is scary for me.

It will be a few years I think before I even try to tackle it.


But it's so much fun!

GreyJoy - what do your other numbers look like? Maybe I should go check in on your AAR to get your shipbuilding/aircraft plans...but as Zigurat says, if you have large pools of NavSY and MerSY, and depending on what your Arm/Veh pools look like vs. the need...maybe you could make 4M (or more) by turning some stuff off.


I definitely get you on "so much land to garrison!", though. And so many ships I want to build... The hardest part about playing as Japan is knowing that you can't have everything, which in a way makes it the most fun.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 4/17/2013 4:08:48 PM >

(in reply to catwhoorg)
Post #: 10
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/17/2013 5:44:34 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 1703
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

Just reading about the economy is scary for me.

It will be a few years I think before I even try to tackle it.

I definitely get you on "so much land to garrison!", though. And so many ships I want to build... The hardest part about playing as Japan is knowing that you can't have everything, which in a way makes it the most fun.


Yeah.

Kid " Look at all the goodies!"
Parent " No. And go brush your teeth!"
Kid "awww"

Sounds like...fun?

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11
RE: Late war japanese economy - 4/17/2013 5:51:24 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 3213
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

Just reading about the economy is scary for me.

It will be a few years I think before I even try to tackle it.

I definitely get you on "so much land to garrison!", though. And so many ships I want to build... The hardest part about playing as Japan is knowing that you can't have everything, which in a way makes it the most fun.


Yeah.

Kid " Look at all the goodies!"
Parent " No. And go brush your teeth!"
Kid "awww"

Sounds like...fun?


It's the draw of the huge impact of your decisions and planning. You can replay and do many of the exact same things, but change your production strategy around to do it in different ways*. That's a lot of fun to me. You can even try to have everything, but know that it's going to cost you later and your only shot might be autovictory or bust... It's probably the same brain mechanic that triggers gambling addiction - it's like playing blackjack, where your hits are the changes you make in production and the house's hand is your opponent.

*Of course with the immense scope of the game in general, the same can be said for playing the Allies. But the IJ side has that little bit of extra ;).

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 12
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