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Partisans

 
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Partisans - 4/11/2013 8:50:47 AM   
The Guru

 

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I am a bit disappointed at the current representation of partisan warfare in WitE

first of all, they seem to have a very binary effect: if they cut a critical railline, they can jeopardize a whole sector of front. If they don't ( whether they just out in the countryside or sitting on a railroad that can be bypassed) all they do is picnic and catch butterflies.
Since by 1942 the German railroad grid is probably fully converted, partisans are only a serious threat in 1941, which is actually the year when they did not constitute a significant threat.
In addition, I believe that the impact of partisan warfare in real WWII translated into cumulative attrition losses by harrassing rear echelon troops, blowing up supply depots etc. Not particularly by shutting down a whole sector of the front by blocking all railroad traffic for one whole week.

Honestly, I think partisan attacks should result in attritional losses for trucks,supplies&fuel (destroyed in ambushed vehicle or railroad convoys), and a few German blown up in the process (trucks are currently immune to partisan ambushes). This could be abstracted and taken directly from the pool. And a small temporary reduction of the rail cap, simulating delayed railroad convoys.
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RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 10:37:30 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Guru

I am a bit disappointed at the current representation of partisan warfare in WitE

first of all, they seem to have a very binary effect: if they cut a critical railline, they can jeopardize a whole sector of front. If they don't ( whether they just out in the countryside or sitting on a railroad that can be bypassed) all they do is picnic and catch butterflies.
Since by 1942 the German railroad grid is probably fully converted, partisans are only a serious threat in 1941, which is actually the year when they did not constitute a significant threat.
In addition, I believe that the impact of partisan warfare in real WWII translated into cumulative attrition losses by harrassing rear echelon troops, blowing up supply depots etc. Not particularly by shutting down a whole sector of the front by blocking all railroad traffic for one whole week.

Honestly, I think partisan attacks should result in attritional losses for trucks,supplies&fuel (destroyed in ambushed vehicle or railroad convoys), and a few German blown up in the process (trucks are currently immune to partisan ambushes). This could be abstracted and taken directly from the pool. And a small temporary reduction of the rail cap, simulating delayed railroad convoys.


Very nice idea

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(in reply to The Guru)
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RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 10:49:19 AM   
morvael


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That would be the best to abstract partisan warfare. Units garrisoning cities should count as on anti-partisan warfare and the whole calculations should be abstracted and reduced to % decline of German supply efficiency.

(in reply to Pelton)
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RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 11:04:41 AM   
The Guru

 

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quote:

Very nice idea

Thx. Maybe for WitE 2.0 ...

Regarding security troops - unless I missed something - their RGH commands are perfectly useless, and are nothing but disbanding meat to feed the pool. OKH can take care of the Sec divs.
To gve them a role that justifies their historical existence, maybe the garrison bonus for sec units should be awarded only to those attached to RHG commands...

(in reply to morvael)
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RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 12:36:57 PM   
rrbill

 

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The Guru has a good point... one lucky partisan hit screws things up too much. Many partisan hits don't matter, but they can move around and need to be watched. Defense for this is to have plenty of lightweight pieces waiting around (but this seems like what Axis did!)

Wondering if the big hits by AI partisans are gamed by the code. Don't get too aggressive seems to say. But I may be paranoid.

(in reply to The Guru)
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RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 1:41:44 PM   
Red Lancer


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Bellamy, Chris, “Absolute War: Soviet Russia in the Second World War” is worth a read on the subject of Partisans.  Partisan attacks were not universally random and were controlled to support STAVKA planned operations.  I am not saying that the depiction in game couldn't be improved but then in again historically they did impact on whole areas of the front.  In the run up to Bagration they were even part of the deception plan.



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RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 3:18:25 PM   
Seminole


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quote:

Regarding security troops - unless I missed something - their RGH commands are perfectly useless


Is that anything that prevents the use of RGH as a normal Army level HQ? Can you assign regular Corps HQs to them to help alleviate overload?

(in reply to Red Lancer)
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RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 10:24:44 PM   
carlkay58

 

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As far as I have seen you can use the RGH as a normal Army HQ except there is a limitation on SU types that it will accept. I have not tried assigning Corps HQs to it.

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Post #: 8
RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 10:46:17 PM   
Seminole


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quote:

As far as I have seen you can use the RGH as a normal Army HQ except there is a limitation on SU types that it will accept.


I don't recall seeing anything about that in the manual, so if anyone knows, please chip in.
I had asked in another thread about SU limits for various HQs (something else I don't recall seeing in the manual), if anyone knows what those are it would be useful for planning purposes.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 9
RE: Partisans - 4/11/2013 10:59:16 PM   
Cerion

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Guru

Regarding security troops - unless I missed something - their RGH commands are perfectly useless, and are nothing but disbanding meat to feed the pool. OKH can take care of the Sec divs.
To gve them a role that justifies their historical existence, maybe the garrison bonus for sec units should be awarded only to those attached to RHG commands...


Interesting idea. It would provide a usefulness and an explanation to his existence.

(in reply to The Guru)
Post #: 10
RE: Partisans - 4/12/2013 2:41:01 AM   
rmonical

 

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quote:

As far as I have seen you can use the RGH as a normal Army HQ except there is a limitation on SU types that it will accept. I have not tried assigning Corps HQs to it.


6.27 Typhoon scenario starts with combat units assigned to RHG. I just checked. Cannot assign combat units or corps to RHG using the assign function of the unit display. The RHG do not show up as assignable.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 11
RE: Partisans - 4/12/2013 8:56:25 AM   
gingerbread


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7.6.2
<Lots of text>
Note that only Security type combat units can be attached to an Axis RHG HQ unit.
...

A scenario designer can override this at set up.

(in reply to rmonical)
Post #: 12
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