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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please

 
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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/27/2013 3:57:44 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Smolensk



Orel-Tula



Rostov



Farming of the Guards, or, Seven is my Lucky Number


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 31
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/27/2013 11:15:04 AM   
Pelton

 

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Nice job.

Holding the area west of Moscow to landbridge is a huge advantage come bliizard as SHC can strike north, west or south out of this area.

I am expecting you to have a good blizzard and the game will be over as we have seen now lately.

Bomazz, Sapper and others have gotten thier clocks cleaned during blizzard. I bleive its 8 out of 10 GHC players have had to surrender mid 42.

If one looks down through the last 6 months of AAR's very very few game's progress into 1943 as SHC 41/42 blizzard is simply way over powered still.

Moscow has only fallen in one game MT's and in almost every game SHC is 5 milion plus by Dec.

The ammo bug and NM bug fixes will help to get games into 43, but the 1941/42 blizzard still needs tweaking and the 1943 conversion bug needs a major fix. Mybee then we will see 75% of game get to 43 instead of 75% of games being over by July 42

We finally getting a few games into 44, but the converion bug is killing GHC and not combat.

I would say M60 that GHC is at your mercy right now.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/27/2013 11:19:37 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 32
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/27/2013 11:29:14 AM   
Michael T


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From: Queensland, Australia.
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I am very concerned about this morale rule fix. Soviet morale is going to top out very quickly, so less routs, snowball, game over 41. Its going to be very very tough on German players now. 41 was already in the Soviets favour. It just got a whole lot worse.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 33
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/27/2013 12:22:30 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am very concerned about this morale rule fix. Soviet morale is going to top out very quickly, so less routs, snowball, game over 41. Its going to be very very tough on German players now. 41 was already in the Soviets favour. It just got a whole lot worse.


True, but the current fact is almost all but a handfull of games even get to 43. Less then a dozen by my count after 1.06.13

Then because of WAD and not combat the GHC army collaspes in late 43 to early 44 no matter if one turtles or does better then historical.

Game is far better then a yr ago, but still needs allot of work before a high % of games get to 44+.

Hopefully wite2 will be better.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/27/2013 12:23:41 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 34
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/28/2013 11:45:37 AM   
janh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
I am very concerned about this morale rule fix. Soviet morale is going to top out very quickly, so less routs, snowball, game over 41. Its going to be very very tough on German players now. 41 was already in the Soviets favour. It just got a whole lot worse.


True, but the current fact is almost all but a handfull of games even get to 43. Less then a dozen by my count after 1.06.13


It certainly has gotten harder when playing the German side, but right now it kinda looks fine to me. The moral thingy, yes, just like the many other things that popped up in the past year looks like another mechanism that can lead to a self-accelerating spiral. This game somehow has a very narrow "balance path", once you fall behind that things can deteriorate quickly instead of being cushioned by counter-balancing some rules. But I guess this was a design decision made to avoid running into WW1 stalemate games?

Regarding games under recent patches... you having to factor in the players and mistakes as well. Your game against Michael wasn't very representative for that count since you sort of announced your strategy and I'd say rather handed 41's victory to Michael by really big mistakes. The Valdai region between Ilmen and Seeliger See is not tank terrain at all, it is perfect defensive terrain. Also 41 is the time to spread out the Wehrmacht and exploit enemy mistakes, but not to focus and advance brute force on a narrow route. I'd say M60 shouldn't have chosen a similar strategy, too. He concentrated only better than two Panzergroups there, but he fell in the same trap. So I am not sure you can really read off much of this game either.

Doesn't matter, I think they should now tone down the blizzard rules or open them to modding. And then do something about the forced ToE changes as well.

< Message edited by janh -- 4/28/2013 11:46:00 AM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 35
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/28/2013 12:48:32 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
I am very concerned about this morale rule fix. Soviet morale is going to top out very quickly, so less routs, snowball, game over 41. Its going to be very very tough on German players now. 41 was already in the Soviets favour. It just got a whole lot worse.


True, but the current fact is almost all but a handfull of games even get to 43. Less then a dozen by my count after 1.06.13


It certainly has gotten harder when playing the German side, but right now it kinda looks fine to me. The moral thingy, yes, just like the many other things that popped up in the past year looks like another mechanism that can lead to a self-accelerating spiral. This game somehow has a very narrow "balance path", once you fall behind that things can deteriorate quickly instead of being cushioned by counter-balancing some rules. But I guess this was a design decision made to avoid running into WW1 stalemate games?

Regarding games under recent patches... you having to factor in the players and mistakes as well. Your game against Michael wasn't very representative for that count since you sort of announced your strategy and I'd say rather handed 41's victory to Michael by really big mistakes. The Valdai region between Ilmen and Seeliger See is not tank terrain at all, it is perfect defensive terrain. Also 41 is the time to spread out the Wehrmacht and exploit enemy mistakes, but not to focus and advance brute force on a narrow route. I'd say M60 shouldn't have chosen a similar strategy, too. He concentrated only better than two Panzergroups there, but he fell in the same trap. So I am not sure you can really read off much of this game either.

Doesn't matter, I think they should now tone down the blizzard rules or open them to modding. And then do something about the forced ToE changes as well.


My game vs MT was a lab rat game to prove the fact that if you turtle vs the best or not the game will end in late 44 or early 45 because of issues I saw in Tarrhunnas vs Grids and Kamil vs Pelton. Could not put my finger on it at time.

Issues I thought were armaments related, have been proven to be more or less conversion related.

The fact that the ammo bug and NM were fixed after the game was put on hold (lines still easly holding just before mud season 43) and now the game being bugged by conversion bug starting 11/42 shows turtling after turn 17 will easly get GHC to early 45, the same as poeple getting to and holding better then historical lines.

Once conversion bug is removed then turtling is not an option as time and distance matter. GHC simply does not fall apart becuase of WAD and not combat.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 36
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/28/2013 1:23:25 PM   
carlkay58

 

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I definitely think the moral fix was necessary - and something that 'disappeared' in 1.06 somewhere. I was play testing 1.07 and I had a Soviet army sit for 10 turns back near Stalingrad in 1941 and still did not have a morale of 40 in any of the twelve divisions. Definitely wrong.

A tougher 1941 Soviet army may see Leningrad and Rostov being held a bit more than lately. The big deal is that it could improve the Axis in the long run - especially in recovering from 41-42 Winter and from any losses that occur later in the game. This should help the Axis last into late 44 or early 45. There is still too much 'pro-offensive' tilt to the game, but hopefully WitW will help even that out more.

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Post #: 37
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 4/28/2013 2:47:26 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

I definitely think the moral fix was necessary - and something that 'disappeared' in 1.06 somewhere. I was play testing 1.07 and I had a Soviet army sit for 10 turns back near Stalingrad in 1941 and still did not have a morale of 40 in any of the twelve divisions. Definitely wrong.

A tougher 1941 Soviet army may see Leningrad and Rostov being held a bit more than lately. The big deal is that it could improve the Axis in the long run - especially in recovering from 41-42 Winter and from any losses that occur later in the game. This should help the Axis last into late 44 or early 45. There is still too much 'pro-offensive' tilt to the game, but hopefully WitW will help even that out more.


The only reason there is so much offensive tilt in 44 to 45 is because of the conversion bug. GHC CV falls because no rifle squads are being produced not because of combat as can be seen in the tech threads.

Once this is fixed then you see a much much more balance game, with the majority ending near turn 212 and being SHC minor wins or draws.

Most games end now in late 44 or early 45, better then 41/42 but still short of historical.

A unit that is X cv in 41 and see next to nothing in combat in 43 should have the same CV, but they don't unless they are one of the 25 out of 350+ divisions that convert the rest simply die on the vine.

In a nut shell 11/42+ on going games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rmonical

So it sounds like this is not a problem for WITW as the slow upgrades can be addressed in scenario design. The WITE scenarios can be "fixed" by restoring the upgrade path.

The problem then goes back to all the armaments points "locked" in the pool by "upgrading" some 35,000 rifle squads of various flavors in 1943.





< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/28/2013 2:54:40 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 38
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/5/2013 3:37:24 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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WEEKS 19-22 Oct 23-Nov 13 1941

The rainy season came and went. Mehring has launched Operation Typhoon in the form of limited attacks to encircle some final units before blizzard.

The Leningrad Front continues reconstruction. I am also preparing for the arrival of the Volkhov Front next week. 1st Shock Army that will be commanded by Alexandr Vasilevsky with what will be 4 guards cavalry corps are gathering south of the Rybinsk Reservoir. STAVKA has already ordered up supporting tank battalions to be attached to 1st Shock Army.

There is little activity in the south, aside from bringing up additional Red Army units.

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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/5/2013 3:41:25 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Front lines and German attacks



OOB and casualties



Army in training


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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/6/2013 12:28:30 AM   
HITMAN202


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Are you aiming at an entire front-wide offensive since there are so many single regiments holding the German line or planning to hit specific sectors. Your plight reminds me of the dilemma I faced at a sumptuous seafood buffet in New Orleans years ago. I was frustrated when I realized I couldn't eat a lot of every thing !!!

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 5/6/2013 12:35:45 AM >


_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

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Post #: 41
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/6/2013 2:49:42 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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I'll attack where opportunities present themselves. The main strategic objective will be to eliminate units where possible. Once Smolensk is retaken, I can push on to the Dnepr and move south. Troops farther east from Southwest, Southern and Caucasus Fronts will be simultaneously pushing west. I also hope to dislodge Mehring from the Valdai.

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Post #: 42
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/6/2013 3:17:38 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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WEEKS 23 & 24 - November 20-27 1941

Mehrings winter offensive comes to an end after isolating and destroying several rifle divisions. The Germans start falling back. The Red Army remains camped outside of Smolensk. Behind Bryansk Front, three cavalry armies are ready for action. The Volkhov Front prepares to be inserted between Leningrad and Northwest Fronts in order to press the retreating Germans out from the Valdai region.


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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/6/2013 3:22:26 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Forces trapped by the German winter offensive



Around Smolensk



Red Army cavalry



Voroshilovgrad



Volkhov Front coming


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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/9/2013 12:29:35 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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WEEKS 25 & 26 - December 4-11 1941

The blizzard offensive is on. Mehring is backpeddling as fast as he can, while staying in contact. It's a good balancing act so far. Smolensk and Kursk have been retaken. Evidently he is going to try and make more of a stand in places he feels are more defendable. None of his units are at risk of capture just yet. The Volkhov Front is now being put into place.

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Post #: 45
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/9/2013 12:33:30 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Volkhov Front



Smolensk-Vitebsk



Kursk



Voroshilovgrad-Rostov


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Post #: 46
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/9/2013 3:10:23 AM   
carlkay58

 

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What are the current VPs? In the sudden death scenario, the Soviets win if the VPs < 190 on 4/1/42.

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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/9/2013 5:23:08 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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He has 204.

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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/14/2013 12:41:32 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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WEEKS 27-30 DECEMBER 18 1941- JANUARY 8 1942

Six weeks into blizzard and I've surrounded and destroyed one security regiment.

The reoccupation of our territory has proceeded at a fast pace where Mehring feels he can give it up, while resisting in a very historical manner by setting up strong defenses where he feels he can.

In the north, a slow process of driving the fascists from the Valdai continues without heavy casualties. The Volkhov Front is applying due pressure while Northwest and Kalinin Fronts push in their sectors. Ultimately I would like to make it to the key rail hub of Staraya Russa, that would give him some potential supply challenges in the north.

In the center, Nikolai Vatutin's Western Front continues a steady pace to the west and over the Dnepr, with Mehring staying carefully out of bear hug range. I think he would be delighted to see me try and retake Minsk, which wouldn't be an impossible task, if not for the fact that my conquering units would likely be pocket bait come summer. The Berezina looks like the limit of advance in this area, with a subsequent pullback east of the Dnepr in late February.

Continuing down to the south, Andrei Eremenko's Bryansk Front liberates Gomel. Three of our cavalry armies are no longer pushing east, but south as the infantry closes up to the Dnepr. Lead cavalry units are 80 miles from Kiev.

Mikhail Kirponos and Southwestern Front liberate the cities of Sumy and Belgorod. The next objective will be Kharkov.

Semyon Budyonny's Caucasus Front reaches Stalino-Gorlovka-Makeevka.

At the Taman Peninsula, the Germans have held off three successive attacks, extracting heavy casualties among Red Army units. The Transcaucasus Front is ending 44th Army to replace Southern Front's 18th Army in that area.

The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Shock Armies are consisting of tank brigades that are getting valuable experience for future battles. There should be a few guards tank brigades coming by the end of blizzard. There are now 3 artillery armies with their 3 assigned light howitzer brigades which hopefully will see a little action before the Red Army offensive comes to an end.

The overall appraisal of the situation is that from a standpoint of territory, the northern and central territory that I want to bring under Soviet control will be achieved. The southern area is the larger challenge. I will clearly not push Mehring back over the Dnepr there and in fact thid is where he will likely mass for the summer offensive. Rail repair is very spotty and the situation becomes more problematic the farther I advance. At this point, I will probably take Kharkov, and start digging in. If he chooses to try to subdue the Caucasus. or push on Stalingrad in summer, I will try to replay history and give ground there while remaining fortified where possible. Hopefully his lines will be strung out in time for the winter of 42-43 when Red Army 2.0 will begin flexing its muscle.





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Post #: 49
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/14/2013 1:10:41 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Leningrad Front



Pressing the Valdai



Movements near Velikie Luki



Mogilev Sector



Cavalry in action



Southwestern Front



Caucasus Front



Taman Peninsula



Smolensk Defense Belt



OOB


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Post #: 50
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/14/2013 3:43:26 AM   
HITMAN202


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I didn't think Mehring could extricate his forces so well. His blizzard strategy was risky ,IMO, but he played it skillfully. He does have a major problem in the hills. though.

I feel much better about my situation versus THEPROS

_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

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RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/17/2013 10:36:09 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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WEEKS 31 & 32 -- January 15 & 22, 1942

The Valdai Strategic Offensive continues to push closer to Lake Ilmen and Staraya Russa. Mehring continues to hold on with tenacity to what he has, and hopefully this will allow the Red Army to pocket Wehrmacht divisions near Demyansk.

Near Kharkov, the Red Army continues to attempt to work its way around both sides of the city.


Near Demyansk


Kiev-Kharkov


< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 5/17/2013 10:37:40 PM >

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Post #: 52
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/24/2013 1:37:27 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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WEEKS 33 & 34 - January 29 & February 5, 1942

The Demyansk Pocket closes around the 12th, 81st and 121st Infantry Divisions. After the final battle over 34,000 German soldiers march into captivity.

Meanwhile to the south, the Germans want no repeat of Demyansk, as Kharkov is given up to Soviet troops. Elements of 54th Army are at the outskirts of East Kiev.

The one German surprise in the far south near Taganrog is backhand blow by 13th and 14th Panzer Divisions with 16th Motorized Division and 1st SS Motorized Brigade. Snow rather than blizzard is the weather in the South Zone. Much of Vasily Sokolovsky's 51st Army is cut off without hope of relief.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 53
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/24/2013 1:43:57 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Demyansk



Kharkov



Taganrog



Artillery Armies in action



Campaign losses


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Post #: 54
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 5/24/2013 8:56:03 AM   
randallw

 

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That's a nice custom map for this campaign. Almost looks like a different game.

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Post #: 55
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 6/2/2013 4:14:13 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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WEEKS 35 & 36 - February 12 & 19, 1942

The Valdai Strategic Offensive reaches its objective of taking Staraya Russa. This has cut the German main rail line to the north, and a RR repair unit is already observed laying down an alternate supply path.

Western Front holds positions along the Drut. In the Kiev-Cherkassy sector, Fascist forces have chosen in parts to withdraw to the western bank of the Dnepr. East Kiev remains firmly in their hands. Several STAVKA armies are being brought here to eventually form the Voronezh Front.

At Kharkov, forward progress is winding down as Axis mobile formations reinforce the defenders in that area. Rumanian troops remain safely entrenched at Stalino.

With only one more week of blizzard to go, and German troops largely over their weather-related losses, it is expected that the front lines will remain largely as they are through the Spring, allowing for some changes dictated by tactical necessity.

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 56
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 6/2/2013 4:45:55 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Valdai Strategic Offensive



Western Front



Kiev-Cherkassy



Kharkov


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 57
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 6/3/2013 7:07:58 AM   
Lictuel

 

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M60 what program do you use to edit your screenshots? Especially for the arrows. You said you plan on getting four artillery armies with their divisions, do you also have a rough plan how many tank corps / armies you will create?

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Post #: 58
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 6/3/2013 10:15:57 AM   
821Bobo


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From: Slovakia
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Probably paint.net http://www.getpaint.net/
It is free and sufficient for AAR purposes.

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Post #: 59
RE: The STAVKA War Diaries II - No Mehring please - 6/3/2013 2:16:39 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Joined: 5/13/2011
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Yes, I use paint.net

Lictuel, I will have 24 tank corps and 4-5 tank armies. Right now I have 15 cavalry corps, but will add one more once I get a couple more cavalry divisions in April.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
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