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Leningrand & Lend Lease

 
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Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/29/2013 11:50:40 PM   
Akmatov

 

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About to finally take the dive and buy this game and have a question. If the Germans take Leningrad and cut the rail line to Murmansk a bit to the east, does that affect Lend Lease supply to the Russians?

I know that only about 20% of Lend Lease came through Murmansk but that is still a lot.
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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/30/2013 12:32:59 AM   
SigUp

 

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No. First of all, why should conquering Leningrad affect the Murmansk railline? It is not on the road to Murmansk. Second, only the Eastern Karelia portion west of lake Onega is on the map.

(in reply to Akmatov)
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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/30/2013 1:36:10 AM   
Akmatov

 

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Having used Search and looking through the posts I haven't found an answer to my question; however, in one of the 2009 FAQs it was stated that while Murmansk was off the map, cutting the rail line from Murmansk would achieve the same result as capturing it. Not having purchased the game I can't see the map, but in an atlas it is clear that the rail line going south from Murmansk goes pretty much due south paralleling the Russo-Finnish border, between the lakes and then veers SW into Leningrad. Would seem to me that Leningrad was the rail hub that connected Murmansk to the rest of the Russian rail net. And even it there were another branch off the N-S line, it would still be in the close vicinity of Leningrad and a capture of the city would either be required or would greatly aid in cutting off that rail line.

So my question still stands, does capturing Leningrad or the area containing the N-S rail line from Murmansk affect Lend Lease supply to Russia?

(in reply to SigUp)
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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/30/2013 3:27:20 AM   
Mehring

 

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Don't think so, and neither should it, though cutting the rail line around Konosha might arguably suffice to cut the supply rout.

Seems a pedantic point to determine whether or not you buy the game. If you want to know how detailed the game is, it's patchy, very detailed in many areas, lacking in others but also under development. For all its many faults, it's still the best system I've found at an operational level.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Akmatov)
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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/30/2013 3:44:01 AM   
Akmatov

 

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Thx Mehring for the endorsement of the game, it is looking very tempting and a bit daunting.

Not an issue about buying or not buying the game, just something I was wondering about. Not sure if it should cut the supply or not, but but seems reasonable as the soviet rail net doesn't seem to have any other connections into the rest of their rail net short of Leningrad. If taking Leningrad and/or area around it would cut some of their supplies, it would increase the value of talking the city.

UPDATE
Taking Leningrad probably wouldn't affect Lend Lease, the West Point Atlas shows the line from Murmansk-Leningrad splitting at Belomorsk and then feeding on into Russia.

< Message edited by Akmatov -- 3/30/2013 4:07:40 AM >

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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/30/2013 11:03:59 AM   
janh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Akmatov
About to finally take the dive and buy this game and have a question. If the Germans take Leningrad and cut the rail line to Murmansk a bit to the east, does that affect Lend Lease supply to the Russians?


No, this area is not a part of the game. The new WitW seems to have this area included as well, but for WitE Lend&Lease is an always fixed given independent of any specific circumstances, bar one exception:
There are so called "permanent supply sources",
Axis: Magdeburg, Linz, Königsberg, Helsinki
Russia: Chelyabinsk, Baku
Cutting of and taking Baku will reduce the supply generation for the Soviet side. Not sure whether L&L is figured into that explicitly or only implicitly, though, but you can surely view it as cutting the lifeline to the Western powers.

Otherwise I can only say WitE is an amazing game, with a great AI. Not a perfect, but for a game of this scope and complexity it is certainly the best I have seen in almost 25 years of computer gaming and it will give you plenty of headaches. The game is going to give you 100s of hours fun, quite a bargain for this price.
It is presently simply the best one that cover the Eastern war at this scope and level of detail. A few areas have crystallized by now (better logistic model, different isolation mechanics, air model, naval model, accounting for withdrawals/reinforcement schedule, production) where improvements would be most welcome and some such ideas apparently have made it into WitW already -- one day to be incorporated into a WitE2, or a much anticipated and hope for War in Europe. If you like monster war games, I can only recommend this game and its presently only "sister" WitP:AE to everyone.

< Message edited by janh -- 3/30/2013 11:05:49 AM >

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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/30/2013 12:31:44 PM   
gradenko_2000

 

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One could just make the assumption that LL gets sent elsewhere, such as directly through Archangelsk, Persia/Iran or even have it all funneled through Vladivostok if the Axis somehow captures Leningrad, cuts off Archangelsk through Vologda and drives to Baku (although that would probably mean the Axis wins anyway)

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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 3/30/2013 11:05:06 PM   
pompack


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It's been a while since I looked up the data in the Green Books, but IIRC by far the largest percentage of Lend-Lease came through Persia with Vlad contributing almost as much as Murmansk as well.

There are serveral applicable charts in this volume IIRC

http://www.history.army.mil//html/books/008/8-1/index.html

Of course this brings up the question of Lend-Lease if the Germans cut the last rail line to Caspian ports. OTOH if that happens it's probably academic anyway

< Message edited by pompack -- 3/30/2013 11:06:21 PM >

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RE: Leningrand & Lend Lease - 4/3/2013 8:39:39 PM   
janh

 

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Interesting book, thanks for the link. There is plenty of good reading there it seems. Need to find some time...

Lend-and-Lease seems to be figured in explicitly, btw. In the Soviet turn report it shows "blah blah supply added to L&L locations", or vehicles from L&L. I'd guess that means Baku, and cutting off Baku would cancel these contributions. Pavel could surely answer that. Or switching sides mid way after having taken it as Axis? Does AI catch up with the situation if you'd do so? Anyone tried that?

(in reply to pompack)
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