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morale - 3/29/2013 8:59:44 PM   
geofflambert


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Is there a good thread we should go to to learn the considerations affecting morale? I'm having trouble with units that I've put in rest mode (after noticing their morale level) and with good officers and stacked with units maintaining high morale so the location and other matters affecting the hex are not the issue. If there is not can we make this one?

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 3/29/2013 9:08:17 PM >
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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 6:08:54 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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I can't remember a thread {there has got to be one, though}.

I do remember factors include size of the base, Malaria Zone {I am not sure about Cold Zone}, proximity to combat and supply level all having contributions.

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 9:21:10 AM   
Chris H

 

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It's not just combat that reduces moral, any kind of work will gradually do it particularly in small and/or malaria bases. By this I mean engineers building stuff, av support looking after a/c, nav sup unloading ships etc. The only way to get there moral back is rest, ideally in a well stocked large base away from the front but they will recover slowly (sometimes very slowly) anywhere. If units cannot be placed in rest due the presence of the enemy than reserve will also work but again slowly. Please note that BF will still support a/c even when the unit is in rest so to speed up BF recovery then you need to place the a/c in rest as well. Engineers won't build anything at rest.

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 1:44:12 PM   
geofflambert


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Thanks, I think that handles it. Some of the problem units are in malarial zones, many are base forces and I did notice they were still providing air support. I wonder if when you have other engineers in the hex not in rest mode in a hex where construction is ordered, whether the rest mode engineers work on the construction anyway? Also I've noticed that air units ordered to do ASW work get low morale, I wonder if that problem is reduced by not putting them at 100% patrol?

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 1:58:41 PM   
geofflambert


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Furthermore, on the ASW issue, I generally put those squadrons at 6,000 feet. Is that the wrong altitude for that work and might their morale be low because their general (me) is a numbskull?

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 3:06:10 PM   
rockmedic109

 

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100% will increase Fatigue in a major way. And I think fatigue has a deleterious effect on morale.

I believe that you accrue more ops losses below 6000' and I think that fatigue also raises more running ops under 6000', but I am not sure. As a general rule, I don't go below 6000'.

Welcome to NA. Numbskulls Annonymous. I have noted that whenever I fire up AE, that the Morale of my troops lowers, casulties soar. Not only that, but this game is so detailed that it has a sound effect of whining whenever I play.

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 4:10:17 PM   
Justus2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Welcome to NA. Numbskulls Annonymous. I have noted that whenever I fire up AE, that the Morale of my troops lowers, casulties soar. Not only that, but this game is so detailed that it has a sound effect of whining whenever I play.


Now THAT is a detailed game!! I do wonder sometimes, when I get some pop-up about a move not being allowed, what my subordinates would be saying about me under their breath - "He ordered us to go WHERE??"

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 5:46:50 PM   
FDRLincoln


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Combat success helps a lot too, particularly for air units. I had a Tojo unit that was hovering around 45-50 percent morale and nothing I could do with leaders or rest seemed to raise it. Then one day, 36 B-24s came to bomb the base and didn't have fighter escort. The Tojos chewed threw those Liberators, shooting down eight outright with 11 more disappearing on the way home or crashing when trying to land, for a total of 19 B-24s shot down of the 36 that attacked.

The Tojo unit morale shot up to 99 and has stayed there for two months.

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 5:52:22 PM   
geofflambert


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I have noticed LCU victories having that effect, as well as simply standing up to an assault.

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 6:30:12 PM   
jmalter

 

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re ASW and other air ops, one can't run an airgroup continuously at 100% (the exception is Training or CAP/Training at rng=0). Pilot & plane fatigue will build up & ops losses will occur.

i run my ASW sqns at 1000', normal range, 60 ASW/40 Rest. Pilot fatigue is generally stable at <10.


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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 6:43:19 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

100% will increase Fatigue in a major way. And I think fatigue has a deleterious effect on morale.

I believe that you accrue more ops losses below 6000' and I think that fatigue also raises more running ops under 6000', but I am not sure. As a general rule, I don't go below 6000'.

Welcome to NA. Numbskulls Annonymous. I have noted that whenever I fire up AE, that the Morale of my troops lowers, casulties soar. Not only that, but this game is so detailed that it has a sound effect of whining whenever I play.


ASW ops at 6000ft will rarely launch a weapon. That's a nautical mile up, moving, looking down for a vessel painted the same color as sea water with a beam of 27 feet. If you're lucky you might see a hint of a wake.

Look around on-line for photos of what ships look like from a mile up.

There's no consensus for what the optimal ASW altitude is, except it's lower than 6000 feet.

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 6:43:26 PM   
geofflambert


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Thanks. I'm getting pretty good results at 6000', I'll try your number and see how it goes. I suppose maxing the pilot number (which I always do) reduces pilot fatigue, but the planes obviously will be in the shop alot. This just made me think. Does pilot fatigue contribute to operational losses? Should I put fatigued pilots in Group Reserve regardless of how good they are to keep them from flying missions?

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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 7:48:00 PM   
FDRLincoln


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I'm fairly certain that fatigue does increase operational losses, both fatigued aircraft and fatigued pilots.

Playing Japan, I find that one-engine seaplanes (Jake, Pete, Alf, Dave, etc.) can sustain a fairly robust pace of ASW/Search operations without falling from the skies too often or burning out the pilots. But the four-engine Mavis and Emily go down for maintenance VERY quickly if I put a unit anywhere past 30ASW-Search/70 rest.

I also like to use excess Mary and Ann airframes for ASW/search patrol near ports, with Lilys or old-model Sallys operating from larger airfields. Nells with search radar are also effective.

I don't think I'm getting many actual air ASW kills....I think there have only been two and we are in January 43. But detection levels against allied subs are pretty good, and I'm usually able to route my convoys around them and send in an H/K escort squadron if the subs loiter too much in the same area.

< Message edited by FDRLincoln -- 3/30/2013 7:49:42 PM >


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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 10:16:50 PM   
Chris H

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Thanks, I think that handles it. Some of the problem units are in malarial zones, many are base forces and I did notice they were still providing air support. I wonder if when you have other engineers in the hex not in rest mode in a hex where construction is ordered, whether the rest mode engineers work on the construction anyway? Also I've noticed that air units ordered to do ASW work get low morale, I wonder if that problem is reduced by not putting them at 100% patrol?


No contruction is carried out by engineers in rest mode. 100% a/c operation will always produce low morale as will flying at low altitude so the two together....


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RE: morale - 3/30/2013 11:08:52 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Thanks, I think that handles it. Some of the problem units are in malarial zones, many are base forces and I did notice they were still providing air support. I wonder if when you have other engineers in the hex not in rest mode in a hex where construction is ordered, whether the rest mode engineers work on the construction anyway? Also I've noticed that air units ordered to do ASW work get low morale, I wonder if that problem is reduced by not putting them at 100% patrol?


No contruction is carried out by engineers in rest mode. 100% a/c operation will always produce low morale as will flying at low altitude so the two together....




I'll have to tell Bill Maher to keep smoking that weed.

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RE: morale - 3/31/2013 7:31:57 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

100% will increase Fatigue in a major way. And I think fatigue has a deleterious effect on morale.

I believe that you accrue more ops losses below 6000' and I think that fatigue also raises more running ops under 6000', but I am not sure. As a general rule, I don't go below 6000'.

Welcome to NA. Numbskulls Annonymous. I have noted that whenever I fire up AE, that the Morale of my troops lowers, casulties soar. Not only that, but this game is so detailed that it has a sound effect of whining whenever I play.


ASW ops at 6000ft will rarely launch a weapon. That's a nautical mile up, moving, looking down for a vessel painted the same color as sea water with a beam of 27 feet. If you're lucky you might see a hint of a wake.

Look around on-line for photos of what ships look like from a mile up.

There's no consensus for what the optimal ASW altitude is, except it's lower than 6000 feet.

I figure I am not going to get many hits. I have been hoping to increase the DL of subs in the area enough that successful attacks are lowered....and because I play the AI, I am hoping to not break the game too badly. I also try to keep my Ops losses low. Still early in my war and I haven't got the pools of Aircraft I want.

That, and I am a numbskull.

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RE: morale - 3/31/2013 6:10:51 PM   
Sardaukar


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Morale is absolutely essential to Chinese units to stop them surrendering or getting destroyed. Use a lot of Rest/Training setting there to build up the morale. 35 exp/ 40 morale unit is about as useful as free VP for Japanese. 35 exp/80 morale is totally different thing.

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RE: morale - 3/31/2013 7:23:49 PM   
tigercub


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I fly my boys at 3,000 to 2,000 ft I am a aerial photographer, I take a lot of snaps from that hight and lower...works for me so i do the same in game.

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RE: morale - 3/31/2013 8:17:55 PM   
geofflambert


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Well, just watch out for those pagodas!

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RE: morale - 4/1/2013 3:55:07 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

I figure I am not going to get many hits. I have been hoping to increase the DL of subs in the area enough that successful attacks are lowered....and because I play the AI, I am hoping to not break the game too badly. I also try to keep my Ops losses low. Still early in my war and I haven't got the pools of Aircraft I want.



If you're after DL it's a trade-off with Search. ASW halves your range. It should increase sub attack odds, all things being equal. Which they never are. Search will result in attacks too if the plane carries ASW weapons, but less often than an ASW mission. So, range versus chance to shoot.

There are theories around here that a Search mission finds single-ship TFs, like subs, less often than larger TFs. I don't have evidence of that, nor do I really care. I go to the range versus chance question and I'm good. If you get a good DL either way and have a surface ASW TF with ASW 6 or better inside React range the sub is probably going to have a bad day.

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RE: morale - 4/1/2013 5:05:11 AM   
geofflambert


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Thanks Moose, I never thought of giving ASW TFs a react range. Gorna hafta think about that. Not being a ruminant, you must chew things thoroughly the first time. On the other hand, reptilians such as myself store our sustenance indefinitely, letting it rot of it's own accord before we harvest it. Two different methods, who's to say which is better? Uh oh, I see a stampede coming this way, everyone take cover!

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RE: morale - 4/1/2013 6:16:02 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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Shorter range gives better coverage in the, admittedly much smaller, area. You can do the same thing by dropping the range flown, but ASW is supposed to give better chances of attacking. I've never had much success in air ASW attacks. If I can ever get enough escorrts, I can put an ASW tf in the same area, as well. I like the idea. I've just never had the assets to properly use it, but I hope to have them soon.

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RE: morale - 4/1/2013 4:35:37 PM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Shorter range gives better coverage in the, admittedly much smaller, area. You can do the same thing by dropping the range flown, but ASW is supposed to give better chances of attacking. I've never had much success in air ASW attacks. If I can ever get enough escorrts, I can put an ASW tf in the same area, as well. I like the idea. I've just never had the assets to properly use it, but I hope to have them soon.


When I have solid ASW coverage and my opponent is spamming subs I will get 3-9 HIT messages per turn. Now whether they are really hitting them or not is a different subject.

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RE: morale - 4/1/2013 4:53:27 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Thanks Moose, I never thought of giving ASW TFs a react range.


It'll go as high as 6, but there again opinions differ. I tend to use a 3 most of the time. I want the patrol zone I set to be patrolled most of the time, and a React 6 can have escorts running back and forth like tennis players. Fuel can be an issue sometimes as well, depending how off-shore the zone is.

On air ASW zones, players ought to hit the "Show arcs" button on the air unit screen. Sometimes seeing just how small an area is really being patrolled sets off a different analysis. Float planes in particular can have some mini-arcs when ranges are halved.

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RE: morale - 4/1/2013 6:04:12 PM   
crsutton


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Leadership and troop quality are a factor as well. It generally takes forever to raise the morale of a Chinese unit. Not so bad with a US Marine unit.

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RE: morale - 4/2/2013 6:50:49 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Shorter range gives better coverage in the, admittedly much smaller, area. You can do the same thing by dropping the range flown, but ASW is supposed to give better chances of attacking. I've never had much success in air ASW attacks. If I can ever get enough escorrts, I can put an ASW tf in the same area, as well. I like the idea. I've just never had the assets to properly use it, but I hope to have them soon.


When I have solid ASW coverage and my opponent is spamming subs I will get 3-9 HIT messages per turn. Now whether they are really hitting them or not is a different subject.

3 hits a day? If they are true, you should run out of targets quickly. Do you use DiveBombers on ASW?

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RE: morale - 4/2/2013 5:45:23 PM   
geofflambert


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Even depth charges from ships often register hits but actually do little damage. I don't think subs are sunk by air attacks very often. I keep getting SS xyz that was reported sunk is now know to still be in business. My ASW planes were getting those kind of numbers but it has tailed off with the lowered morale.

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RE: morale - 4/2/2013 5:56:51 PM   
rockmedic109

 

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I always watch the replay and note when a sub takes a penetrating hit. The other hits are more nuisance than damaging {OH NO! The Bowling Alley is destroyed!}.

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RE: morale - 4/2/2013 6:17:44 PM   
Lokasenna


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Granted, I think I erred in allowing the DL on these subs to remain high and they'd get attacked from the air a lot, but... All of my sub losses as IJ vs. Allied AI, as of 9/14/42:






Aside from the 2 subs lost to mine hits at Singapore on the first day of the war (playing with historical first turn on, they both ran in, dropped their mines, and ran into some Allied ones), I've lost twice as many subs to 500 lb. bombs than to depth charges. It's early yet though, I know Allied DCs get scary good.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 4/2/2013 6:21:35 PM >

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RE: morale - 4/2/2013 8:26:42 PM   
GreyJoy


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you don't need to really hit the subs with aerial bombs. The most important thing is to keep the DL level over them as high as possible, both at day and night. As long as the DL remains 10/10, those subs aren't gonna hit anything. Granted

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