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Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 2:56:36 AM   
Gunner98


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Here is another classic USN photo and I have added the names of the 5 Essex class CV's according to Wiki. My question to the group is what is the other CV to the left of the row - is it the Big E? It looks smaller than the rest so I think it might be. Also I think that is a CVL behind the unknown CV, not sure and in front of it, I cannot make out if its an ARD or another CVL? Any ideas.

Thanks

B





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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 3:29:55 AM   
wdolson

 

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The CV you can't identify looks like another Essex class. The island of the Enterprise had sharper "shoulders" than the Essexes because the Essexes had the 4 5 inch turrets before and after the island and the Enterprise only had 40mm tubs. The unknown CV looks like it has 5 inch turrets.

The ship you think is a CVL does look like an Independence class ship. The ship labeled ARD looks like an aircraft ferry with planes on the deck. The Sangamon class had a profile a lot like that, but it didn't have the crane in front of the island like that ship appears to have. The Sangamon class was big for a CVE. Close in dimensions to an Independence CVL.

The picture is kind of blurry. Too bad it isn't sharper. I wonder if that was taken at Ulithi. The anchorage could hold a lot of ships.

Bill

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 3:41:43 AM   
Termite2

 

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CV 16 USS Lexington is the carrier, she is in a Navy blue paint job, looks smaller.

That is also the CVL 27 USS Langley, with the crane. The other CVL is also an Independence class carrier[USS Cabot?] above the Lexington.
a clearer picture of the Langley at Ulithi

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/022710.jpg




< Message edited by Termite2 -- 3/20/2013 4:18:08 AM >


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 6:22:21 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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That is such an awesome concentration of naval firepower in one place they should have just dropped copies of the picture over the Imperial Palace with the caption:


"See you soon. Any question please contact the Swiss Embassy."

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 9:26:58 AM   
janh

 

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Yes, it is one of the most impressive photos of that time I have ever seen. Is there a recolored version somewhere? it might be even more awesome.

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 9:33:01 AM   
Ddog

 

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After the Surrender Ceremony on Mighty Mo, the US did a massive fly over.  I've heard estimates in the 2000 range, but most of what I've read say approx. 1200 aircraft.  Could the unidentified carrier be the USS Bennington (CV-20)?  The lead planes in the formation were from the Bennington.






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< Message edited by Ddog -- 3/20/2013 9:35:28 AM >


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 10:16:37 AM   
Gunner98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


The picture is kind of blurry. Too bad it isn't sharper. I wonder if that was taken at Ulithi. The anchorage could hold a lot of ships.

Bill


Bill

The photo is indeed taken at Ulithi, the title "Murderers row at Ulithi atoll". The photo is at this link http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Murderers_row_at_Ulithi_atoll.jpg and may be clearer from the actual page.

B

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 10:16:59 AM   
wdolson

 

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The Bennington didn't leave NY for the Pacific until December 15,1944. That picture of all the carriers was taken at Ulithi on Dec 8, 1944. The Bennington couldn't have been there at that point.

The picture is fairly famous. It's on the Navy history site for the USS Wasp's page. I've seen it titled "Murder's Row" in several places. That may have been how it was described when it was released during the war (if it was). It is the sort of picture that would make a good publicity picture.

It's a bit sobering to think that the pictured carriers are just a small slice of the third fleet's force. The scale of the USN by the end of 1944 was staggering. The world will probably never see another fleet as vast.

Bill

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 10:20:07 AM   
Gunner98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termite2

CV 16 USS Lexington is the carrier, she is in a Navy blue paint job, looks smaller.

That is also the CVL 27 USS Langley, with the crane. The other CVL is also an Independence class carrier[USS Cabot?] above the Lexington.
a clearer picture of the Langley at Ulithi

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/022710.jpg





OK, I had not seen a photo of the Independence class with the crane so prominently displayed before.

I also did not fully grasp the effect the paint job would have had on the size appearance of the ship. Impressive.

Thank you.

B

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 10:31:38 AM   
wdolson

 

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Forgot the Independence class had that crane forward of the island. At a guess I would say this is probably two of the 3rd fleet's carrier task groups together. The composition varied depending on whether ships were damaged or not and what ships were available, but they often had three Essexes and one Independence class carrier.

Bill

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 11:40:12 AM   
Gunner98


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Makes sense, Dec 8 would put them between the battle of Leyte Gulf and before the invasion of Luzon. Just reviewing Morrison's Vol 12, the fast carriers made large strikes on Luzon on 25 Nov (TF 38.1, 2, & 4) while 38.3 was at Ulithi. TF 38.2 joined 38.3 at Ulithi after these strikes and a side sweep at Yap. The whole TF had been engaged in the Philippines operation for 84 days straight and according to Morrison was in great need of rest and support.

In the photo there is some sort of a tender immediately left of the CV row and would that be a hospital ship glowing white at the left edge (or is that just reflection?). I believe that Ulithi had been turned into a fairly significant base by this time including an R&R camp and a large hospital complex.

This is truly a snapshot of the awesome power of the Pacific fleet.

B

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 12:13:59 PM   
oldman45


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That is one of my favorite photo's, if nothing else, it shows the amazing industrial might that the US brought to the war.

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 2:18:54 PM   
Schanilec

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termite2

CV 16 USS Lexington is the carrier, she is in a Navy blue paint job, looks smaller.

That is also the CVL 27 USS Langley, with the crane. The other CVL is also an Independence class carrier[USS Cabot?] above the Lexington.
a clearer picture of the Langley at Ulithi

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/022710.jpg





I actually think it's the Essex rather than the Lexington. The Essex retained her original measure paint scheme throughout the war. I'll check over noon hour.

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 2:45:39 PM   
Mundy


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Here's a spot to check:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/usn_cv.htm

Towards the end, Measure 21 became very popular again, with the kamikaze threat.

Ed-

< Message edited by Mundy -- 3/20/2013 2:47:28 PM >


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 3:46:31 PM   
Termite2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termite2

CV 16 USS Lexington is the carrier, she is in a Navy blue paint job, looks smaller.

That is also the CVL 27 USS Langley, with the crane. The other CVL is also an Independence class carrier[USS Cabot?] above the Lexington.
a clearer picture of the Langley at Ulithi

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/022710.jpg





I actually think it's the Essex rather than the Lexington. The Essex retained her original measure paint scheme throughout the war. I'll check over noon hour.



Essex was repainted in april 44 during refit at SF; picture of "muderors row" was december 44. There are several variations of muderors row
at Ulithi. The USS Astoria has an excellent website that has a lot of pictures and good info.
http://www.mighty90.com/

april 15th, 1944 picture of Essex at SF showing paint job
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020942.jpg

< Message edited by Termite2 -- 3/20/2013 3:52:02 PM >


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 4:34:18 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ddog

After the Surrender Ceremony on Mighty Mo, the US did a massive fly over.  I've heard estimates in the 2000 range, but most of what I've read say approx. 1200 aircraft.  Could the unidentified carrier be the USS Bennington (CV-20)?  The lead planes in the formation were from the Bennington.







I remember seeing this picture when winning as the Allies in the late-90s computer version of Axis & Allies. Never saw the bottom of it, though - is that the Mo in the foreground? Has all those little boats around it...

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 7:43:09 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

That is one of my favorite photo's, if nothing else, it shows the amazing industrial might that the US brought to the war.
warspite1

Yes - an incredible sight. The disaparity between the Japanese and the US laid bare for all to see.

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 8:08:26 PM   
jeffk3510


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I have always really enjoyed both photos.. mainly Murder's Row. What amazes me is that is only a fraction of America's military might.... their power was incredible leading up to the end of the war.

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/20/2013 8:26:11 PM   
Sakai007


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My grandfather always spoke with awe about the flyover in tokyo bay. He always said that it was to hammer home the point that japan was a defeated nation, utterly defeated.

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 3:15:25 AM   
Ddog

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ddog

After the Surrender Ceremony on Mighty Mo, the US did a massive fly over.  I've heard estimates in the 2000 range, but most of what I've read say approx. 1200 aircraft.  Could the unidentified carrier be the USS Bennington (CV-20)?  The lead planes in the formation were from the Bennington.





I remember seeing this picture when winning as the Allies in the late-90s computer version of Axis & Allies. Never saw the bottom of it, though - is that the Mo in the foreground? Has all those little boats around it...




Here is the caption that was with the pic:


Photo #: 80-G-421130

Surrender of Japan, 2 September 1945

Navy carrier planes fly in formation over the U.S. and British fleets in Tokyo Bay during surrender ceremonies.
USS Missouri (BB-63), where the ceremonies took place, is at left. USS Detroit (CL-8) is in the right distance.
Aircraft include TBM, F6F, SB2C and F4U types.


As a side note, there were over 270 allied ships in Tokyo Bay at the time of the signing.


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 3:39:33 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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quote:

Dear Emperor Hirohito;

Don't you EVER do that again.


Sincerely;

General Douglas MacArthur


attachment




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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 3:55:01 AM   
Commander Cody


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Here's another Ulithi shot. OK, who's going to name all these vessels?

Cheers,
CC




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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 4:46:34 AM   
Lokasenna


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I see at least 6 CVs, a CVL mixed with the CVs, an Iowa-class on the right, a couple of CAs (I think) in the background upper left, and a CL further to the left behind the left-most CV, and an atoll-load of DDs (probably Fletchers).


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 5:38:00 AM   
Commander Cody


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I'm guessing there are a couple of ADs there with multiple DDs tied up alongside (or maybe those are DEs--I'm certainly no expert).

Apparently the nearby Mog Mog Island was a great destination for drinking beer. One source I stumbled on said 7.6 million cans of beer were consumed on that island.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 11:29:11 AM   
oldman45


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Who wants the job of harbor master?

I can't imagine the work it took to keep that harbor in any kind of organization.


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 3:09:19 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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There is one oil-coated hermit crab left in the anchorage. His eyes are bulging and he crawls onto the sand...gasping.

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 4:53:19 PM   
Speedy

 

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LOL

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 6:11:30 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody
Apparently the nearby Mog Mog Island was a great destination for drinking beer. One source I stumbled on said 7.6 million cans of beer were consumed on that island.


I'm currently reading "Crossing the Line" by Alvin Kernan (highly recommended). He was an aviation ordnanceman / aerial gunner on Enterprise, Hornet and Suwanee(and may or may not have shot down Butch O'Hare).
In his book he relates his 4-hour-liberty at Mog Mog island. [Quoting freely] It was a tiny island with a sand hill at one end and a mangrove swamp at the other. Upon landing on the beach, a trail led inland and a sign read "Officers left, Enlisted Personnel right". The officers went to a club on the sand hill - crude but pleasant. To the right was a gate in a barbed-wire fence and a chief standing by a huge pile of cases of beer, who handed out two cans of warm beer to every sailor. The swamp was stripped of all foilage and stamped into a greasy mash of mud. Even hardened sailors, wild for liberty and drink, blanched at the sight of Mog Mog and there was - an unheard thing - a long line of men back at the landings waiting to return to their ships. But having accepted liberty, they could not return until the appointed hour...

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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 9:21:55 PM   
Termite2

 

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The only successful Kaiten attack was at Ulithi.
Out of the hundred+ ships in the harbor, he picks an oiler, the USS Mississinewa AO-59.

Just like my games as the Japanese, instead of the aircraft carrier close by, an oiler gets it.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g270000/g270753.jpg

< Message edited by Termite2 -- 3/21/2013 9:27:06 PM >


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RE: Another Clasic photo - 3/21/2013 10:13:55 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termite2

The only successful Kaiten attack was at Ulithi.
Out of the hundred+ ships in the harbor, he picks an oiler, the USS Mississinewa AO-59.

Just like my games as the Japanese, instead of the aircraft carrier close by, an oiler gets it.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g270000/g270753.jpg


Crazy picture.

Wikipedia says the DE Underhill was also sunk by Kaitens.

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