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For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! (no Michael pls)

 
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For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! (no Michael pls) - 3/18/2013 7:22:52 AM   
821Bobo


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For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom!

My first try for AAR here was pretty short. As my oponent for this game is MT, this may be short one as well. So far I have suffered two utter defeats from Michael. Can only hope that this will not be the third one.

We will play server game:
41-45GC - Alt VC
Full FOW
Locked HQ
Non-Random Weather

House Rules:
No Para drops to break pockets at anytime in the game. No Para missions at all by the Soviets until the first Blizzard.
No bombing of air bases more than 3 times a turn (after turn 1).
No bombing of HQ's unless stacked with a ground unit.

edit: I have changed AAR name to English. It seems that Cyrillic is not working well on the forum.

< Message edited by 821Bobo -- 3/18/2013 5:36:08 PM >
Post #: 1
Turn 1 - 3/18/2013 7:28:41 AM   
821Bobo


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Turn 1.

The usual mess and very few units were left for the next turn. Defense is only optical and it won't fool the Germans.

Screenshot is from end of my turn 1. Hope it is not too big to load here.


(in reply to 821Bobo)
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RE: , , ! (no Michael) - 3/18/2013 5:19:39 PM   
Pelton

 

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Checher board south, leave 30 arm pts west of major rivers.

Move whatever left in south north.

Good Luck

_____________________________

GHC WitE 24 - 4 - 8
GHC WitW 0 - 0 - 0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 3
For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/18/2013 5:31:11 PM   
821Bobo


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Thanks

I am not planning to make any stubborn resistance in south however I will try to avoid pure run.
Btw. as expected Michael formed new pocket in the south but should be easily breakable.

(in reply to Pelton)
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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/18/2013 6:48:07 PM   
Shupov


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Airlift supplies into the pockets that have airfields to bring isolated non-armor units up to beachead supply level (5%). Don't do armor - their supply needs are too costly. Then they won't surrender the first time they are attacked. You can tie up some of his units for a few turns that way.

_____________________________

Two broken Tigers on fire in the night,
Flicker their souls to the wind...

Al Stewart, "Roads to Moscow"

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 5
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/18/2013 7:02:17 PM   
821Bobo


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Thanks however I always move the entire airforce to reserve on turn 1. Air supply will be possible only from turn 3. If any pocket with A/B will survive and will be within range, I will airlift supplies in.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 6
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/18/2013 7:31:56 PM   
STEF78


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Third game against MichaelT?


You really likes short campaigns!

(in reply to 821Bobo)
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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 12:16:47 AM   
Shupov


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Thanks however I always move the entire airforce to reserve on turn 1. Air supply will be possible only from turn 3. If any pocket with A/B will survive and will be within range, I will airlift supplies in.


Recon too?

I send heavily damaged air units to National Reserve on T1, but even a few units can have useful missions:

1) Supplying pockets that have airfields
2) Recon to locate armor spearheads. Determine how many panzer divisions are sent to each front.
3) Harassment interdictions. Bomb the spearheads to reduce fuel and supply levels until air cover catches up (up to 5 or 6 turns). German casualties will be light but you might knock off a few MP their next turn. Every little bit helps!

_____________________________

Two broken Tigers on fire in the night,
Flicker their souls to the wind...

Al Stewart, "Roads to Moscow"

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 8
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 12:21:04 AM   
HITMAN202


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I've never played the Ruskies, but why cover the river east of the Rumanian border ??? A few trash units at points closest to the border seem adequate. Also why did you stick units so close to Proskurov (furtherest point of German converted hexes.) ???? Also you said you were setting up a checkerboard ????

The Pz/Mech will have + 45 MP's on turn 2 . It seems if you set up a checkerboard 10 or so hexes further east not only do you 1) frustrate those gas guzzling mobile units, 2) keep Axis Pz's well ahead of his infantry , and 3) put the checkerbord 10 hexes closer to the Dnper, the biggest barrier to AGS, where these units will make a temporary stand.

Also I don't see many Sec/Paratroopers up front.

I'm trying to learn the Soviet side of WITE , so I'm interested in your thinking on basic stuff. I am amazed that your facing MT for a 3rd time. Frustrate him.

_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

(in reply to STEF78)
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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 12:37:57 AM   
Shupov


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

I've never played the Ruskies, but why cover the river east of the Rumanian border ??? A few trash units at points closest to the border seem adequate. Also why did you stick units so close to Proskurov (furtherest point of German converted hexes.) ????


Hitman - I don't mean to speak for 821Bobo but there are a couple of good reasons for his deployment:

1) Soviet units have very low MP's the first two turns. It's all they can do to get behind the river east of Rumania.

2) The fortification belt and rivers do afford some protection on Turn 2. Bobo's deployment should avoid another encirclement that turn, but he'll need to withdraw further east next turn.

3) I agree with your point about Security units - sacrifice them as roadblocks or to cut spearhead supply lines. I'll even sacrifice a few infantry divisions for this purpose, since they regenerate until the end of October. I consider the paras to be more valuable - they don't rout easily and can't be replaced.

_____________________________

Two broken Tigers on fire in the night,
Flicker their souls to the wind...

Al Stewart, "Roads to Moscow"

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 10
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 4:31:02 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Thanks

I am not planning to make any stubborn resistance in south however I will try to avoid pure run.
Btw. as expected Michael formed new pocket in the south but should be easily breakable.



MT's MO is ALWAYS the same.

He is 190% all about the center, same same same plan every single game. Kinda old really very surpised you fall for same old junk for a 3rd time?

1. Good opening in south.
2. Pockets in center. ( land bridge area for newbies)
3. Pockets east of marshes.
4. Leningrad falls
5. Doom and dispair as Moscow falls.

Get some balls as we say in the USA and stop the same old **** in center then you stand achance.

Don't do same crap M60 did

M60

Bobo?

Almost getting boring watching poeple do the same mistake over and over again.

Whats the defination of crazy?

Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/19/2013 4:34:32 AM >


_____________________________

GHC WitE 24 - 4 - 8
GHC WitW 0 - 0 - 0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 11
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 4:55:03 AM   
Flaviusx


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I don't like what you are doing in the center at all. The landbridge is not the place to make a stand, especially not against MT. You have committed just enough stuff there for him to gobble it up and not enough to stop him. I know I'm a broken record on the subject, but the place to make your stand in the center is Rzhev-Vyazma-Bryansk, where it is much harder for the Axis to move their panzers around at warp speed until the rail lines move forward. Pretty much everything you have placed between Gomel and Vitebsk that doesn't start with Western Front ought to be going north of Vitebsk. At the same time, you haven't placed a zoc on his forward elements with throwaway pickets from Western Front.


_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Pelton)
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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 7:11:15 AM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Recon too?


Yes, everything, air force is even worse mess than army, for reorganization purposes is best to move them all to reserve and reassign.
Even without recon, I was able on turn 2 find 24 Pz/Mot divisions, 6 are missing and Michael is probably hiding at least one Korps somewhere. I doubt that recon would help me much on turn 2

(in reply to Shupov)
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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 7:15:54 AM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202



Shupov is right with point 1 and 2.
Regarding sec units, every sec regiment that was able to make contact with Axis units is in contact.

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 14
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 7:25:32 AM   
821Bobo


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Pelton, Flavius

The screenshot is from turn 1. Please where I should find units to reinforce Velikye Luki area? All Stavka units are frozen, in north is nothing left. But I have to admit, I am defending landbridge also on turn 2.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
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For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 9:17:16 AM   
821Bobo


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Turn 2

I have conducted few successful attacks. Mainly the attack on Das Reich division was unexpected success and resulted in cutting off part of the 1. Panzer Group.
Part of the 4 Panzer group is hanging around Vitebsk and I am expecting from Michael the same move as vs M60.

End of turn screenshot.

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 9:21:21 AM   
randallw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I don't like what you are doing in the center at all. The landbridge is not the place to make a stand, especially not against MT. You have committed just enough stuff there for him to gobble it up and not enough to stop him. I know I'm a broken record on the subject, but the place to make your stand in the center is Rzhev-Vyazma-Bryansk, where it is much harder for the Axis to move their panzers around at warp speed until the rail lines move forward. Pretty much everything you have placed between Gomel and Vitebsk that doesn't start with Western Front ought to be going north of Vitebsk. At the same time, you haven't placed a zoc on his forward elements with throwaway pickets from Western Front.



It practically seems like people are trying to repeat the historical Soviet strategy ( a big battle at Smolensk ), even when the terrain ( at least in game terms ) is lousy for stubborn defense.

Maybe it the idea of a river there, but since it takes that right turn ( winds East ) all it does is force a longer defensive line, in a perpendicular deployment.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 9:58:18 AM   
Balou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Mainly the attack on Das Reich division was unexpected success and resulted in cutting off part of the 1. Panzer Group.


This is rather shocking news for Axis fanboys. When looking at the combat resolution screen I noticed a 2,5 fold increase of the Sov combat value and I wonder what had caused it - despite poor sov leader roll (if leaders left as they were in turn 1), moderate experience (40-60), morale (54-56) etc, except for the 100+ T34 in 16 Tank Div. I guess by turn 2 DR was still in good shape (fuel, supplies), and they were supported by a Pio Bn + 1 Flamm Pz Bn: but why did their CV dropped (modified CV from 154 to 115)?

(in reply to 821Bobo)
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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 10:15:23 AM   
821Bobo


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Even more odd is, that this was only hasty attack.

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 10:19:54 AM   
Balou


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OMG. What did you feed your boys ?

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 11:17:15 AM   
821Bobo


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Probably it was only pure luck. Attack with the same stack on panzer regiment has failed(that was after the attack on Das Reich). Those division were doomed anyway and I had nothing to lose.

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 11:39:10 AM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

This is rather shocking news for Axis fanboys. When looking at the combat resolution screen I noticed a 2,5 fold increase of the Sov combat value and I wonder what had caused it - despite poor sov leader roll (if leaders left as they were in turn 1), moderate experience (40-60), morale (54-56) etc, except for the 100+ T34 in 16 Tank Div. I guess by turn 2 DR was still in good shape (fuel, supplies), and they were supported by a Pio Bn + 1 Flamm Pz Bn: but why did their CV dropped (modified CV from 154 to 115)?


This is how the combat engine is.... attacking pays. The number of devices in Bobo's 3 divs most likely out pace the ones in one div on german side.(1.5 times more men and nearly 8 times the AFVs) This means disruption isnt equal and will favor the attacking as its its spred on more devices. In such situason u nearly alwasys see attacking being positivly modified and less really good rolls the defender losing modified CV. Sure leader rolls prolly been lucky in this case but this is nothing suprising in this as such. From looking at the map apart from that 1 unit that is below the unknown Pz unit 2 hexes N of it doesnt seems MT has the corps HQs in range if that is the case, well u get bad rolls.
Look at Sapers vs HarryBanana or Kamils vs Mike's AAR. If the situasion is set right. You get games as those where german in 42 attacking in their turns and are succesfull. Then the russian counter attack in their turns and are succesfull. See saw action in the "same" hexes. U cant sucesfully defend hex X but u can succefully attack it. Nature of the combat engine.

i know and why ppl dislike using defensive GS, but this is as case as most ppl move all untis to reserve in turn 1, so nada to shoot down german planes, where MT actually very well could have benefitted from def GS hugely.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


< Message edited by Walloc -- 3/19/2013 11:56:04 AM >

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 1:28:59 PM   
loki100


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good to see some early game counterattacks, and you breaching the pockets by breaking out

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 2:02:31 PM   
Ketza


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Attack early and often!

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 2:48:22 PM   
Flaviusx


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Nicely done in the south, but still very much disagree with your deployments in the center.

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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 5:30:20 PM   
821Bobo


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Got today turn 3 from Michael and as has been predicted I paid the price like M60.
Any advice appreciated.


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RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 5:50:05 PM   
Shupov


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It might be possible to break the encirclement if your 12=40 stack attacks the 9=10 panzer division and a unit inside the pocket can get to the hex east of Liozno. Also move into the swamp square south of Vilikie Luki. At least you can slow his panzers for next turn, but the price for defending the land bridge past turn 2 was too big to pay. The road to Moscow is wide open!

Flaviusx, try to resist saying "I told you so".

_____________________________

Two broken Tigers on fire in the night,
Flicker their souls to the wind...

Al Stewart, "Roads to Moscow"

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 27
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 5:56:03 PM   
821Bobo


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Opening the pocket is not the problem. Problem is that there is nothing left to be moved in front of Vyazma. I was aware that Michael will try to do this but only other option on turn 2 was running back to Vyazma.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 28
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 6:23:44 PM   
gingerbread


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You've got these, right?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 29
RE: For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! - 3/19/2013 6:31:28 PM   
821Bobo


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But those are only shells with no use until the next turn.

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