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Now that we have a new Pope...

 
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Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/13/2013 10:50:04 PM   
Footslogger

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline 		I was looking for bon oppner, that German priest who opposed Hitler, anyway I found this!!






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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/13/2013 11:21:21 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		I suspect the church was much like the German public, with most people supporting the Nazis, and a few seeing the real truth. I also suspect that this is common occurrence with most populations, even modern ones.




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When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/13/2013 11:23:46 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 3965
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Careful with this one.

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2080768

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/14/2013 12:03:45 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 39882
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		It's "Footslogger"... He does these things. And don't say "we" about this. There is no "we".

< Message edited by Terminus -- 3/14/2013 12:05:23 AM >

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/14/2013 12:22:30 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1096
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Well I guess we(sorry Terminus) will soon have a crusade declared against the UK to take back the Malvinas from the heathens

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/14/2013 12:53:52 AM   
msieving1

 

Posts: 313
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quote:

I was looking for bon oppner, that German priest who opposed Hitler


Might help if you knew how to spell it. By the way, Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran minister, not a priest.

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/14/2013 2:47:17 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 9056
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

I suspect the church was much like the German public, with most people supporting the Nazis, and a few seeing the real truth. I also suspect that this is common occurrence with most populations, even modern ones.





Look like a scene from the movie Victory!


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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/14/2013 7:48:09 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

I suspect the church was much like the German public, with most people supporting the Nazis, and a few seeing the real truth. I also suspect that this is common occurrence with most populations, even modern ones.



warspite1

Indeed so - and if not actually supporting the Nazis, then were happy to go along with them because of the ecomonic "miracle" they seemed to be performing. As for the picture, one England player - Stan Cullis of Woverhampton Wanderers - refused to give the salute and was dropped from the team as a result.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/14/2013 7:56:37 AM >

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/14/2013 7:53:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 8999
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran minister.  Due to the church's support - outright or tacit - of the Nazi regime and its mandates to replace free churches with a state-run relgion, Bonhoeffer and others formed a new denomination/branch called the Confessing Church.  Bonhoeffer was a professor at the little seminary at the start of the war.  It was shut down by the Gestapo.

Bonhoeffer was active in the resistance movement, as were other members of his family and some of his friends in the Confessing Church (Martin Niemoller was a contemporary and, in stature, Bonhoeffer's elder).  Bonhoeffer continued his work when he joined the Abwehr.  He was active in helping Jews escape Germany and participated in some of the plotting to kill Hitler.

After the July 1944 assassination failed, Bonhoeffer was one of those arrested.  He was held and interrogated at length.  Finally, in the closing days of the war, he was executed - hung naked from the gallows.

It was a supreme irony - or wonderful confirmation - that Bonhoeffer authored a book called "The Cost of Discipleship."  It deals with the high cost of truly being a disciple of Jesus Christ (IE, it wasn't a political commentary).  Could he have demonstrated the cost of true discipleship any more clearly?

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/14/2013 11:49:42 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		One of the questions I have asked myself a few times, if in the same circumstances would I have been brave enough to stand-up too. I like to think I would have been stong, but the realist in me thinks I probably would have taken the easy way.

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You understand now, Why you came this way

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/15/2013 1:45:08 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2022
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran minister.  Due to the church's support - outright or tacit - of the Nazi regime and its mandates to replace free churches with a state-run relgion, Bonhoeffer and others formed a new denomination/branch called the Confessing Church.  Bonhoeffer was a professor at the little seminary at the start of the war.  It was shut down by the Gestapo.

Bonhoeffer was active in the resistance movement, as were other members of his family and some of his friends in the Confessing Church (Martin Niemoller was a contemporary and, in stature, Bonhoeffer's elder).  Bonhoeffer continued his work when he joined the Abwehr.  He was active in helping Jews escape Germany and participated in some of the plotting to kill Hitler.

After the July 1944 assassination failed, Bonhoeffer was one of those arrested.  He was held and interrogated at length.  Finally, in the closing days of the war, he was executed - hung naked from the gallows.

It was a supreme irony - or wonderful confirmation - that Bonhoeffer authored a book called "The Cost of Discipleship."  It deals with the high cost of truly being a disciple of Jesus Christ (IE, it wasn't a political commentary).  Could he have demonstrated the cost of true discipleship any more clearly?


Thanks for taking the time to write about Bonhoffer.


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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/15/2013 2:09:41 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2505
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Just above the gnat line, GA
Status: offline 		Another good book to ready by Bonhoeffer is "Letters and Papers from Prison." The faith the man displays will astound you. I must tell you, he is no easy read, but the effort is worth it. One of the parts Canoerebel left out is that in June of 1939, he was in New York and was offered a seat at Yale, I believe, but decided he had to return to Germany to resist Hitler. The other fact is that he was held until the Brits were a day or so away form liberating the camp. Then he was executed.

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/15/2013 2:31:05 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3151
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

... It was a supreme irony - or wonderful confirmation - that Bonhoeffer authored a book called "The Cost of Discipleship."  It deals with the high cost of truly being a disciple of Jesus Christ (IE, it wasn't a political commentary).  Could he have demonstrated the cost of true discipleship any more clearly?


I think Bonhoeffer had already demonstrated that discipleship when he decided, against the advice of his friends, to return to Nazi Germany when he was safely living and teaching at a NYC seminary.

However, his fate was sealed when a fellow conspirator of Bonhoeffer's actually left a list of their names on his desk at the Abwehr in plain site after the failed coup.

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/15/2013 2:33:32 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 706
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

One of the questions I have asked myself a few times, if in the same circumstances would I have been brave enough to stand-up too. I like to think I would have been stong, but the realist in me thinks I probably would have taken the easy way.


A better question to ask is: if in the same circumstances, would you have seen the acts as wrong?

An underappreciated fact about human psychology is how easy it is for people to convince themselves of the legitimacy of such things when it helps them to fit in. Hitler was very popular - the cheering crowds were seldom staged. Many supporters of Hitler were regular people - like you and me. Many who supported slavery, who burned witches, who slaughtered whole communities of "heathens" and "heretics" are regular people convinced utterly that they are doing that which is right.

< Message edited by Thayne -- 3/15/2013 4:13:25 PM >

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RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/15/2013 2:38:14 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3151
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

I suspect the church was much like the German public, with most people supporting the Nazis, and a few seeing the real truth. I also suspect that this is common occurrence with most populations, even modern ones.



warspite1

Indeed so - and if not actually supporting the Nazis, then were happy to go along with them because of the ecomonic "miracle" they seemed to be performing. As for the picture, one England player - Stan Cullis of Woverhampton Wanderers - refused to give the salute and was dropped from the team as a result.


Is this photo from the '38 Olympics in Germany?

If so, the State Dept. forbade the US team from giving the Olympic salute, which was indistinguishable from the Nazi salute.

BTW, there hasn't been an Olympic salute since the end of WW II.

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 15
RE: Now that we have a new Pope... - 3/15/2013 7:35:19 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 10697
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

I suspect the church was much like the German public, with most people supporting the Nazis, and a few seeing the real truth. I also suspect that this is common occurrence with most populations, even modern ones.



warspite1

Indeed so - and if not actually supporting the Nazis, then were happy to go along with them because of the ecomonic "miracle" they seemed to be performing. As for the picture, one England player - Stan Cullis of Woverhampton Wanderers - refused to give the salute and was dropped from the team as a result.


Is this photo from the '38 Olympics in Germany?

If so, the State Dept. forbade the US team from giving the Olympic salute, which was indistinguishable from the Nazi salute.

BTW, there hasn't been an Olympic salute since the end of WW II.
warspite1

No its not - and there are two stand out clues as to why:

a) The Berlin Olympics were staged in 1936
b) If it was it would have been a picture of the Great Britain team - not England

However, this match was played in the Olympic Stadium, Berlin, in May 1938,

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




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Post #: 16
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