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this game would be better if (eye candy)

 
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this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 1:52:34 AM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		I just dont think staring at the nato style unit icons make for that much interest. I think real armour/tank icons, soldier icons, etc, would make for a more interesting game. Visual is everything.
Post #: 1
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 2:11:14 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Well... for me the beauty of the game is in the planning, organisation and fulfilment of the task. I'm not a huge fan of the icons we have at the moment (I find them a bit big and obtrusive, and would prefer a more explicit, fluid and 'permanent' display of the unit footprint... plus boundaries and phase lines), but I wouldn't find 'real armour/tank/soldiers' as acceptable as the existing Icon sets (you are presumably aware that there are stylised silhouette icons available as an option? it is mentioned in the helpfiles and I thought it was the default?)




(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 2
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 3:31:05 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		I agree with Lieste..it is probably a ' To each his own ' type of thing anyway..but at this level where each 'piece' represents 5-20 vehicles/guns, or 50-300 men... I would find it silly to represent that with a graphic of a single person or a stand of a few people, etc. But I would not be against that being an option.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 3
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 8:57:32 AM   
Brindlebane

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/5/2013
Status: offline 		My first post,gotta start somewhere.For me,it was the simplicity of the lay out that grabbed my attention.I discovered the game on utube and then downloaded the demo.Not much to look at but when i tried to play the game,i just didn't have a clue,the learning curve was so huge and that was it-hooked.Purchased COTA then BFTB.

For me,it's got to be the Nato icons though agreed for pure choice maybe there should be an options for figures.Wouldnt be for me personally though.It was strictly the gameplay that sold me to get into these titles as for what's on the screen infront of me,my imagination does the rest.The game is simple to look at but boy what an engine under the hood.

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 4
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 2:48:52 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

I just dont think staring at the nato style unit icons make for that much interest. I think real armour/tank icons, soldier icons, etc, would make for a more interesting game. Visual is everything.


Really couldn't disagree with you more..nothing more silly than a 3D tank representing a coy of them..or a soldier representing a coy..just doesn't work. Also how would you be able to give out the important info that you can glean from a counter form some 3D tank sprite.

Honestly I love graphics..in the right game. It does annoy me when people say this about CO as it just isn't suited to what you want. Panzer Corps is the game for you I think. Which funny enough I think looks silly having a monster tank representing an armoured division or whatever the scale is. Certainly isn't immersive or realistic looking.

Eye candy for tactical level games showing individual soldiers and tanks fair enough..but at this level..no thanks.

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(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 5
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 4:28:06 PM   
Panman


Posts: 71
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Eye candy for tactical level games showing individual soldiers and tanks fair enough..but at this level..no thanks.


+1

I think CO hits the nail on the head here for the right graphic representation for the unit level depicted.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 6
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 6:05:47 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2941
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I´d go even a step further, liking to see real tactical icons as used by WW2 wartime nations in CO. Personally I never use that simplified tank ect. icons when offered in any game alternatively, but I also wouldn´t mind if offered to those who prefer them.

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Post #: 7
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/9/2013 6:34:22 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

Well... for me the beauty of the game is in the planning, organisation and fulfilment of the task. I'm not a huge fan of the icons we have at the moment (I find them a bit big and obtrusive, and would prefer a more explicit, fluid and 'permanent' display of the unit footprint... plus boundaries and phase lines), but I wouldn't find 'real armour/tank/soldiers' as acceptable as the existing Icon sets (you are presumably aware that there are stylised silhouette icons available as an option? it is mentioned in the helpfiles and I thought it was the default?)







I agree with this. There's a lot of scope for improvement in how the game represents units on the map, particularly with regard to footprint, but ultimately this is just one of those game where you need to learn NATO symbols in order to be able to skim the screen and have a vague idea of what's going on.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 8
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/10/2013 7:51:56 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Though you don't have to, Alchenar. There is an option - as Lieste said - to use figurative symbols. Many people seem to do that (not me, as it happens) judging from the AARs, and that seems fine to me. After all, the NATO symbols aren't historically accurate either ( like Rockin Harry, would love to see all those terribly complicated historical Axis symbols used, myself!). All these options are different to having little 3D icons though. Can't see the point of that, at this scale, as everyone has said. It would make it look like a toy. It's certainly a game where - as Brindlebane hinted - your imagination needs to wake up and do the work and if you're looking for eye candy you'll be disappointed. I think it's a bit of an aquired taste, to be honest - but once the bug bites, once you get it, then you might find it hard to put up with other games that lack the superb concept and amazing AI.

< Message edited by phoenix -- 3/10/2013 7:54:49 AM >

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 9
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/10/2013 1:39:18 PM   
altipueri

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/14/2009
Status: offline 		I'm happy with the NATO symbols. Several other games use NATO symbols or variants of, and although there are arguments for and against, on balance I think they are the best choice even if not completely historically accurate. AGEOD uses them in the American Civil War and Napoleonic games. Paradox uses them in Hearts of Iron. Oh, and The Operational Art of War uses them - it has a 3d model variant but hardly anybody uses it I believe.

< Message edited by altipueri -- 3/10/2013 1:41:06 PM >

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 10
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/10/2013 1:48:23 PM   
Topo

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		IMHO the counters are ok; what i'd like to see is the possibility for the player to draw "plan symbols" like phase lines, axis of advance, intel ecc...

Sorry for my english.

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Post #: 11
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/10/2013 1:58:41 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Topo

IMHO the counters are ok; what i'd like to see is the possibility for the player to draw "plan symbols" like phase lines, axis of advance, intel ecc...

Sorry for my english.

Not bad English Topo.
I believe that I saw Dave in another thread mention this as being on their "wish list" for future development for this game. Looked for it, but cannot seem to find the particular thread, which is sad as he actually said it in reply to myself.

(in reply to Topo)
Post #: 12
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/10/2013 2:53:26 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3156
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain
... Visual is everything.


Hollywood would agree, which is why it produces so many "unplayable" movies filled with visual effects.

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Post #: 13
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/10/2013 5:55:59 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Though you don't have to, Alchenar. There is an option - as Lieste said - to use figurative symbols. Many people seem to do that (not me, as it happens) judging from the AARs, and that seems fine to me. After all, the NATO symbols aren't historically accurate either ( like Rockin Harry, would love to see all those terribly complicated historical Axis symbols used, myself!). All these options are different to having little 3D icons though. Can't see the point of that, at this scale, as everyone has said. It would make it look like a toy. It's certainly a game where - as Brindlebane hinted - your imagination needs to wake up and do the work and if you're looking for eye candy you'll be disappointed. I think it's a bit of an aquired taste, to be honest - but once the bug bites, once you get it, then you might find it hard to put up with other games that lack the superb concept and amazing AI.



The point isn't historical accuracy - the point is to have a set of readily identifiable symbols that broadly identify whichever white box you happen to be looking at on the screen; NATO symbols are what everyone uses, they're a good system, and once you learn them you'll never forget them. That makes them the best choice.

While 3d Icons might work for other games where hexes and units are of consistent size, they can't work here on a map that's entirely 2d and where units can vary greatly in footprint over the course of a game - it would just be confusing and misleading.

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 14
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/11/2013 9:26:27 AM   
dazkaz15


Posts: 311
Joined: 12/14/2012
Status: offline 		I also prefer the current NATO style symbols for this kind of game.

That might be due to the fact that I have a military background, and have been playing war games for years now, so can instantly recognise what the symbols represent.
For new people to the genera, I think it would be useful to have more visual aids to understand what is under/inside that counter.

To that end I have been working on my idea of a top bar for the game, and part of that bar is to use the pictures currently hidden away in a layer of tabs, to be much more readily available to give an instant representation of what's in the counter.

The one in the screenshot is of the I Bn HQ 1 Pz SS Regt. As you can see the tab in the top bar can be left open as you click around the symbols on the map. It will instantly give you a graphical representation, in thumbnail images (these are the game default ones, I think I will try to look for some better ones, as there not very clear) of the composition in that counter, and thus aid faster learning for those not familiar with the symbols.

I have a load of other stuff to put on my bar yet as it's still a work in progress, Ill post another screen shot when I get round to finishing it, as its ideas for future expansions/releases. I just wanted to get this up as its topical for this thread, as its ideas for better graphical representations of map icons.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by dazkaz15 -- 3/11/2013 10:07:41 AM >

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 15
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/11/2013 11:53:48 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Woah!! Hold on is that a mod? If so superb work...I hope Dave sees this as it would enhance the game no end.

Love it mate...really really love it.

_____________________________

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My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

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(in reply to dazkaz15)
Post #: 16
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/11/2013 12:55:49 PM   
dazkaz15


Posts: 311
Joined: 12/14/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Woah!! Hold on is that a mod? If so superb work...I hope Dave sees this as it would enhance the game no end.

Love it mate...really really love it.


Thanks wodin

No its not a mod im afraid. Sorry if I mislead you there.

I have no computer programming knowledge what so ever. It's a concept idea for someone that is a lot more clever than me to improve upon, and to carry forward into expansions/future releases.

It's also me playing with my free trial version of Photoshop CS 6, that I have for one month before I have to start paying. It's almost as complicated to learn as this game, so its keeping my brain busy while I recover from a back injury.

Anyway glad you liked it, Ill keep plugging away at it in between playing

< Message edited by dazkaz15 -- 3/11/2013 12:56:36 PM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 17
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/11/2013 4:59:40 PM   
Topo

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Very interesting!
I hope someone pick up that idea for future release.

(again, sorry for my english...)

(in reply to dazkaz15)
Post #: 18
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/11/2013 6:32:52 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Second that.

(in reply to Topo)
Post #: 19
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/11/2013 9:57:09 PM   
pekische

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 8/20/2012
From: Czech republic
Status: offline 		Very nice dazkaz´s idea!!! I am voting to add it to the game... Dave, please!!!

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 20
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/11/2013 11:12:35 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2941
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pekische

Very nice dazkaz´s idea!!! I am voting to add it to the game... Dave, please!!!


They can´t do that for copyright reasons.

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Post #: 21
RE: this game would be better if (eye candy) - 3/12/2013 9:51:05 AM   
dazkaz15


Posts: 311
Joined: 12/14/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry


quote:

ORIGINAL: pekische

Very nice dazkaz´s idea!!! I am voting to add it to the game... Dave, please!!!


They can´t do that for copyright reasons.


I don't see why they couldnt?
If they wanted to that is.

All the pictures are theirs from the game, except for a few I added for a car, and the small arms, as the originals where just pics of the actual weapon, and I was after a bit more flavour, so I added ones where they there being used by the soldiers. But I mean how much can the copyrights for an old 20mm X 40mm B&W picture cost anyway?

As for the graphics that is theirs, just chopped and mutilated by me on Photoshop.

As for my idea, I herby waver any rights I may have (which I don't think I have anyway), to this or any other idea I may have in the interest of improving this amazing game


< Message edited by dazkaz15 -- 3/12/2013 9:56:05 AM >

(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 22
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