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US Naval HQs - 3/3/2013 3:26:16 PM   
Q-Ball


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I noticed something on US Naval HQs, as opposed to the IJN ones.

The IJN ones are useful; a couple are Command HQs, and the ones that aren't include a fair number of Naval Support Squads. Useful for ship repair and quicker unloads.

The USN Fleet HQs, though, are not command HQs, and they also do not include any Naval Support Squads. They are just support squads, period.

Do the USN Fleet HQs do anything besides provide extra support for land units, if that's needed? Or is that it?
Post #: 1
RE: US Naval HQs - 3/3/2013 5:15:40 PM   
oldman45


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My guess would be, the US Fleet HQ was purely an administrative function. 3rd and 5th Fleet come to mind as good examples. The ships would simply fall under a different admiral, nothing else would change.

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RE: US Naval HQs - 3/3/2013 5:31:11 PM   
Sredni

 

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I think naval hq's effect ship repair? This thread indicates they do:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2350193

^thread about leadership choices for hq's, ships, and units. I thought I had a useful thread bookmark for hq's specifically but this was the only one I could find in my list.

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Post #: 3
RE: US Naval HQs - 3/3/2013 6:19:31 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

I think naval hq's effect ship repair? This thread indicates they do:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2350193

^thread about leadership choices for hq's, ships, and units. I thought I had a useful thread bookmark for hq's specifically but this was the only one I could find in my list.


That's part of the question: IJN Naval HQs do help ship repair. But is that because they have Naval Squads in them? Or that they are Naval HQs? Or both?

Does the HQ provide repair help independent of the Naval Squads?

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Post #: 4
RE: US Naval HQs - 3/3/2013 8:41:31 PM   
dr.hal


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If you read the manual or the Repair Guide 101 put together by Alfred, it is clear that naval support squads help in repair. However nothing is said about naval HQs themselves. So while HQs impact morale and help in recovery from disruption, I don't think they help directly with ship repair (however to get a squad back on its feet, that could impact once disruption is eliminated).

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Post #: 5
RE: US Naval HQs - 3/3/2013 9:38:47 PM   
witpqs


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I think it was during one of those threads I asked Michael if naval HQ in and of themselves had any effect, or just by means of their component devices. He answered that it was only via their devices. So if they have no naval support squads, then AFAIK they have none of those effects.

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RE: US Naval HQs - 3/3/2013 11:26:14 PM   
spence

 

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Makes perfect sense. Everybody knows the IJN repaired ships in a flash. Why witness HIJMS Shokaku after Coral Sea. She got back into action in only 3 months: August 42. (It will be necessary here to ignore the fact that the USS Yorktown got back into action 3 days after putting into Pearl Harbor: strangely home of the U.S. Pacific Fleet).

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RE: US Naval HQs - 3/4/2013 3:31:54 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Makes perfect sense. Everybody knows the IJN repaired ships in a flash. Why witness HIJMS Shokaku after Coral Sea. She got back into action in only 3 months: August 42. (It will be necessary here to ignore the fact that the USS Yorktown got back into action 3 days after putting into Pearl Harbor: strangely home of the U.S. Pacific Fleet).

Well I was just saying what I know of the game-mechanics. The real issue that you are bringing up is whether each side can repair ships as quickly as that side ought to be able to.

With regard to the Allies' naval support squads function, it doesn't really matter if that is provided by naval support squads inside a naval HQ or inside the various base force (and so on) units, or by some intrinsic ability of naval HQ units (without needing squads) does it?

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RE: US Naval HQs - 3/5/2013 3:35:04 AM   
msieving1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Makes perfect sense. Everybody knows the IJN repaired ships in a flash. Why witness HIJMS Shokaku after Coral Sea. She got back into action in only 3 months: August 42. (It will be necessary here to ignore the fact that the USS Yorktown got back into action 3 days after putting into Pearl Harbor: strangely home of the U.S. Pacific Fleet).

Well I was just saying what I know of the game-mechanics. The real issue that you are bringing up is whether each side can repair ships as quickly as that side ought to be able to.

With regard to the Allies' naval support squads function, it doesn't really matter if that is provided by naval support squads inside a naval HQ or inside the various base force (and so on) units, or by some intrinsic ability of naval HQ units (without needing squads) does it?


It does seem that the naval HQ was kind of an afterthought as far as the developers were concerned. Why include a unit type that does nothing? Army and air HQs have a function, but it looks like naval HQs were just thrown in for show.

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Post #: 9
RE: US Naval HQs - 3/5/2013 6:23:51 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Makes perfect sense. Everybody knows the IJN repaired ships in a flash. Why witness HIJMS Shokaku after Coral Sea. She got back into action in only 3 months: August 42. (It will be necessary here to ignore the fact that the USS Yorktown got back into action 3 days after putting into Pearl Harbor: strangely home of the U.S. Pacific Fleet).

Well I was just saying what I know of the game-mechanics. The real issue that you are bringing up is whether each side can repair ships as quickly as that side ought to be able to.

With regard to the Allies' naval support squads function, it doesn't really matter if that is provided by naval support squads inside a naval HQ or inside the various base force (and so on) units, or by some intrinsic ability of naval HQ units (without needing squads) does it?


It does seem that the naval HQ was kind of an afterthought as far as the developers were concerned. Why include a unit type that does nothing? Army and air HQs have a function, but it looks like naval HQs were just thrown in for show.


They provide some very nice Naval Support, but there are times as the IJ player that I feel like I don't have enough "hub bases" to put them, and I feel like putting more than one at any place is something of a waste (Rabaul with Port 7 doesn't need more than one, for example).

(in reply to msieving1)
Post #: 10
RE: US Naval HQs - 3/5/2013 12:32:14 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Makes perfect sense. Everybody knows the IJN repaired ships in a flash. Why witness HIJMS Shokaku after Coral Sea. She got back into action in only 3 months: August 42. (It will be necessary here to ignore the fact that the USS Yorktown got back into action 3 days after putting into Pearl Harbor: strangely home of the U.S. Pacific Fleet).

Well I was just saying what I know of the game-mechanics. The real issue that you are bringing up is whether each side can repair ships as quickly as that side ought to be able to.

With regard to the Allies' naval support squads function, it doesn't really matter if that is provided by naval support squads inside a naval HQ or inside the various base force (and so on) units, or by some intrinsic ability of naval HQ units (without needing squads) does it?


It does seem that the naval HQ was kind of an afterthought as far as the developers were concerned. Why include a unit type that does nothing? Army and air HQs have a function, but it looks like naval HQs were just thrown in for show.


They provide some very nice Naval Support, but there are times as the IJ player that I feel like I don't have enough "hub bases" to put them, and I feel like putting more than one at any place is something of a waste (Rabaul with Port 7 doesn't need more than one, for example).



He was talking about the Allied naval HQs that don't provide any naval support.

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RE: US Naval HQs - 3/5/2013 2:05:18 PM   
PaxMondo


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For whatever reason, and I am sure there are some very good ones, the designers decided to split the naval support from the US Naval HQ's and put it into Base support LCU's as opposed to the IJN HQ's which have it integrated.

Anyone who has played both sides of this will know, for a fact, that the allies posses many times the naval support squads that the IJ does and that the allies CAN repair capital ships in 3 days whereas the IJN will repair ships in 3 months if they are lucky.

Oh, hold it, that is a historical representation!  Must be a mistake.  The game is clearly BORKED beyond all recognition. 

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RE: US Naval HQs - 3/5/2013 4:30:58 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Makes perfect sense. Everybody knows the IJN repaired ships in a flash. Why witness HIJMS Shokaku after Coral Sea. She got back into action in only 3 months: August 42. (It will be necessary here to ignore the fact that the USS Yorktown got back into action 3 days after putting into Pearl Harbor: strangely home of the U.S. Pacific Fleet).

Well I was just saying what I know of the game-mechanics. The real issue that you are bringing up is whether each side can repair ships as quickly as that side ought to be able to.

With regard to the Allies' naval support squads function, it doesn't really matter if that is provided by naval support squads inside a naval HQ or inside the various base force (and so on) units, or by some intrinsic ability of naval HQ units (without needing squads) does it?


It does seem that the naval HQ was kind of an afterthought as far as the developers were concerned. Why include a unit type that does nothing? Army and air HQs have a function, but it looks like naval HQs were just thrown in for show.


They provide some very nice Naval Support, but there are times as the IJ player that I feel like I don't have enough "hub bases" to put them, and I feel like putting more than one at any place is something of a waste (Rabaul with Port 7 doesn't need more than one, for example).



He was talking about the Allied naval HQs that don't provide any naval support.


Well...reading comprehension fail. Apologies!

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Post #: 13
RE: US Naval HQs - 3/6/2013 5:26:28 AM   
uncivil_servant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

For whatever reason, and I am sure there are some very good ones, the designers decided to split the naval support from the US Naval HQ's and put it into Base support LCU's as opposed to the IJN HQ's which have it integrated.

Anyone who has played both sides of this will know, for a fact, that the allies posses many times the naval support squads that the IJ does and that the allies CAN repair capital ships in 3 days whereas the IJN will repair ships in 3 months if they are lucky.

Oh, hold it, that is a historical representation!  Must be a mistake.  The game is clearly BORKED beyond all recognition. 


But it could also be an oversight. If the designers looked at how many units that could help in the repair of ships each side had, and implemented them in the game and then later put in the HQ's after the historical divvying up that it could be a non-tranparent omission of those units on the allied side that favors the IJN side - or someone decided the allies "had enough of that stuff" and added those onto the IJN side. But if one states in the manual "HQs help this" it would imply that was the intent for that to be the Navy HQ's purpose, but the intent an implemented is not the same for each side.

As to whether or not the same facilities advantages are identical - RE game vs reality - I just hope I can take advantage of that imbalance. I don't know about you, but I wish allied carrier could face and IJN carrier's dive bomber and torpedo bombers and get only dinged in the game and need only three days of repair.

The yorktown faced such instances twice and was not sunk either time. Probably due to the fact that wildcats seemed to do a wee bit better IRL than they seem to in the game versus zeros as well as IJN torpedo attacks irl weren't quite the auto-kill that they seem to be in game reading AARs of massive CV fleet sinkings.

The noted Yorktown took a bad bomb hit but avoided torpedos (yes, those faster IJN ones) at Coral Sea, emergency repairs to superficially patch up flight desk, then survived six more hits at Midway and then two torpedo hits from 10 TBs. Still wasn't sunk.

Two more torpedos from a submarine did enough damage (still didn't sink!) to cause repair efforts to be deemed too dangrous to continue. (so 9 bomb hits and 4 torpedo hits) without drydock repairs.

I just hope my ships can survive similar so I can take advantage of the superior repair facilities (I've never seen a 3-day repair time for combat damage - but I am very new).

< Message edited by uncivil_servant -- 3/6/2013 6:32:48 AM >

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RE: US Naval HQs - 3/6/2013 12:25:39 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

For whatever reason, and I am sure there are some very good ones, the designers decided to split the naval support from the US Naval HQ's and put it into Base support LCU's as opposed to the IJN HQ's which have it integrated.

Anyone who has played both sides of this will know, for a fact, that the allies posses many times the naval support squads that the IJ does and that the allies CAN repair capital ships in 3 days whereas the IJN will repair ships in 3 months if they are lucky.

Oh, hold it, that is a historical representation!  Must be a mistake.  The game is clearly BORKED beyond all recognition. 



Well playeed bit of sarcasm there. I agreee for the most part without the drama. Dispersing the naval support actually gives the Allies far greater flexibility in it's use than the Japanese enjoy. All that being said, nothing about that argument invalidates the observation that it makes the Allied Naval HQs somewhat superfluous as they serve no naval function.

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