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1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules

 
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1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 2/26/2013 7:43:26 AM   
kombrig

 

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Did a little tweaking and changed some of the settings in the latest new dawn random game file. The list of changes can be seen here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3275661

In order to see, how it turned out, would like to playtest it. It can't be really tested against the AI because the AI can't handle the new readiness rules.

So looking for opponents for 1vs1 (medium map) or 2vs2(large map) game.
Post #: 1
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 2/26/2013 5:51:27 PM   
ironduke1955


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Count me in

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 2/26/2013 7:02:04 PM   
kombrig

 

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Ok, great! Let's wait another day or two, maybe someone would like to join in.

Also what do you think, should I also tweak the MGs so that they are counted as rear area troops? In this way they should take less losses.

(in reply to ironduke1955)
Post #: 3
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 2/26/2013 11:31:26 PM   
LazyBoy

 

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I will play if you wish.

As to MGs would you be better leaving the stats as you have set them. OR reset back to original and making them rear area?

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Post #: 4
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 2/27/2013 7:16:03 AM   
kombrig

 

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Great! Now we need also fourth player.

quote:

As to MGs would you be better leaving the stats as you have set them. OR reset back to original and making them rear area?


Good point. So which option we should use?

(in reply to LazyBoy)
Post #: 5
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/1/2013 10:01:47 AM   
Madlok


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I want to try this mod.

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Post #: 6
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/1/2013 10:16:29 AM   
kombrig

 

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Excellent!

I suggest that I and Madlok will form team 1 and Ironduke and Lazyboy team 2.

Also if you all agree then team 1 will start. Team 2 has the right to declare war first but not before turn 3 and not later than turn 6.

If any of you are not against it then I also will:

-leave the MGs as they are currently (not rear area)

-will give the guerillas endless supply but make them really weak in combat

-will give rangers similar supply as guerillas had previously and try if I can tweak their morale, experience and combat to be higher (but they are going to be really expensive).

Please send your e-mail to kombrig12 at gmail.com so I can invite you to the dropbox folder.

(in reply to Madlok)
Post #: 7
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/2/2013 3:31:38 AM   
Madlok


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Did you get my mail?

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/2/2013 7:40:24 AM   
kombrig

 

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I got it. I try to set up the game today.

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/2/2013 1:27:10 PM   
LazyBoy

 

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I am happy with any arrangement

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/2/2013 7:39:02 PM   
kombrig

 

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Ok, sent you invitation.

Turn order
1) Kom - Sultinate
2) Mad - Kent
3) ? - Kyoto
4) ? - Peoples republic


I also made the following adjustments:

Cavalry recon points raised from 2 to 3

Artillery can't enter high mountains anymore (except if there is a road)

Rangers renamed to Special Forces
Special Forces cost 900 (rifle costs 100), but they have 100 morale, 90 experience and they are better against infantry than regular rifles. The combat values against infantry raise on next levels. Level I and II can carry 8 supply (consume 2 per turn) and level III and IV can carry 10. All levels have 50 bridge blowing points (the same as engineers). Special forces have 50 percent chance that a kill against them is turned into retreat. This is to simulate that they would try to avoid combat with superior forces.

Guerillas
They don't need supplies (if readiness is lost they automatically recover it 30 points per turn). They are poor in combat even against regular rifles. Their combat value against infantry raises on next level but even level IV does not match rifles completely. All guerillas have bridge blowing points (upper levels have more) but not so much as special forces or engineers.
Guerillas are cheap. Lower levels cost less than rifles. Guerillas have 50 percent chance that a kill against them is turned into retreat. This is to simulate that they would try to avoid combat with superior forces.


< Message edited by kombrig -- 3/2/2013 7:40:38 PM >

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/3/2013 12:38:06 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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Sounds good to me.

Has the game started?


< Message edited by LazyBoy -- 3/3/2013 12:40:01 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/3/2013 1:12:04 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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Kom could you summarise the changes into one post for easy reference, please

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/3/2013 6:21:33 AM   
Madlok


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I think I can't research Guerrillas II, I don't have Guerrilla Theory.

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Post #: 14
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/3/2013 9:11:27 AM   
kombrig

 

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quote:

I think I can't research Guerrillas II, I don't have Guerrilla Theory.



First bug discovered! I was sloppy and forgot to tweak some features in the research tree. So currently only level one guerillas and special forces are available for everybody. Only Anglosaxons can seemingly further research special forces and Arabs guerillas. I suggest that we don't use this research option in the current game (I have Arabs and Madlok has Anglosaxons).

Here's the list of changes which apply to the current game (I will post this info also in the dropbox folder):


1) Cavalry combat detail stats are now exactly like infantry. When compared to infantry the cavalry has now simply better movement rates and better recon.

2) Recon stats

Edited SFTs' recon points.
Trucks, artillery, inf guns, AT guns, horses, flak, mortar, bazooka, MG, staff, katyusha, train - all have now 0 recon points.
Guerilla and special forces - 2 recon points
Cavalry, armored car and halftrack - 3 recon points
Jeep - 5 recon points
All the rest - 1 recon points

Recon can not see behind 2 hexes.

Landscape hide points increased.

The amount of recon points needed for full information about enemy unit is increased.

If you want better picture about enemy you actually have to engage him.


3) Armor combat stats modified (decreased) when attacking in city or capitol. Armor combat stats modified (decreased) when defending in urban, suburban, forest etc tough terrain.

4) Bazooka combat stats modified (increased) when fighting in urban or capitol.

5) Research cost decreased for level III and IV (some items also level I and II).

6) Political points cost (if they are produced) reduced.

7) Raw cost reduced.

8) Oil cost (when moving and fighting) reduced.

9) Supply cost (if produced) reduced.


10) Mortar attack against infantry significantly increased.

11) Machine guns attack against infantry increased. It's now 60, while defense against infantry is 90. Also MG hit points increased frok 100 to 150 in order to increase their survival chances.

12) Machine guns I-IV, Bazookas I-IV, Mortars I-II and AT guns I-II can be paradropped. Mortar II and AT gun II can be produced even if next level is researched.

13) Every nation get level one special forces and guerillas.

Rangers are renamed to Special Forces
Special Forces cost 900 (rifle costs 100), but they have 100 morale, 90 experience and they are better against infantry than regular rifles. The combat values against infantry raise on next levels. Level I and II can carry 8 supply (consume 2 per turn) and level III and IV can carry 10. All levels have 50 bridge blowing points (the same as engineers). Special forces have 50 percent chance that a kill against them is turned into retreat. This is to simulate that they would try to avoid combat with superior forces. In order to research them one must also research the corresponding infantry level.
[NOTE: in this game because of a bug only Anglosaxons can further research special forces]

Guerillas
They don't need supplies (if readiness is lost they automatically recover it 30 points per turn). They are poor in combat even against regular rifles. Their combat value against infantry raises on next level but even level IV does not match rifles completely. All guerillas have bridge blowing points (upper levels have more) but not so much as special forces or engineers.
Guerillas are cheap. Lower levels cost less than rifles. Guerillas have 50 percent chance that a kill against them is turned into retreat. This is to simulate that they would try to avoid combat with superior forces.
[NOTE: because of a bug in this game only Arabs can further research guerillas]


14) Readiness


Readiness penalty when assigning a unit to another HQ - zero (no penalty).

Readiness penalty for strategic transfers - minus 20.

Readiness penalty when transfering SFTs between units under the same HQ - minus 80.

Readiness penalty when transfering SFTs between different HQs - minus 90.


This means that players can reinforce their frontline units directly from the front line HQ but if they do it too much, then the readiness of the reinforced units will drop critically. Of course if the sector is without major action, one may risk to reinforce frontline units heavily in this way but it will not work if you want to go offensive next turn or if you are facing enemy onslaught.

If a unit needs strong reinforcements, it is wise to pull it back and then reinforce it. After a couple of turns it is ready to return the frontline.

Also player can choose to start to form reserve units. This means that such units will have at first 20 readiness.

15) The cost of trains in raw and production points is lessened. So strategic transfers can be made more easily.

16) City production increased to 16 000, capital - 35 000.

17) Artillery can't enter high mountains anymore (except if there is a road).

18) Assault gun and tank destroyer combat values against infantry slightly decreased.

(in reply to Madlok)
Post #: 15
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/3/2013 10:08:13 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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Thanks

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/7/2013 12:53:28 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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Kom am I right in that we have the option to declare war first within the first 6 turns

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Post #: 17
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/7/2013 11:15:26 AM   
kombrig

 

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Yep.

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Post #: 18
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/9/2013 4:48:17 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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I upgraded cavalry to level 2, they turned into infantry 2 :(

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/9/2013 1:34:22 PM   
kombrig

 

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Ok, I checked, it's another bug. Also some other SFTs (at least MG level II, Bazooka, Tank Destroyer, Assault Gun) have this problem: they can't be upgraded to the next level using supply. Sorry!

< Message edited by kombrig -- 3/9/2013 1:43:08 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/10/2013 12:18:51 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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Not a problem, bug finding and fine tunning is what this games about

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/21/2013 10:58:20 PM   
Madlok


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I am loosing this game. Two things:
1. I made bad strategical decisions.
2. The number of units is too big for me. I can't manage with this.

So... we have discovered many bugs. If it would depends of me I give up this game.


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Post #: 22
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/22/2013 7:37:06 AM   
kombrig

 

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What's the opinion of other players? Do you want to continue or should we stop?

If we continue then Madlok please play one more turn and after you have made your moves, simply give all your cities, resources and HQs to me. Then push the surrender button.

It's going rather well for me (or at least it seems so). The Chinese southern and central front is retreating suffering huge losses. However I have no idea what kind of reserves are prepared in the rear.

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Post #: 23
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/22/2013 2:45:29 PM   
Madlok


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I'm not going to quit if the other players want to play. I just feel my game will be just slow death now.

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/22/2013 11:52:10 PM   
ironduke1955


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"If we continue then Madlok please play one more turn and after you have made your moves, simply give all your cities, resources and HQs to me. Then push the surrender button."

I am fairly sure that this is not how 2v2 games are played if Madlok surrenders then he surrenders to Lazy and myself resources and cities will go to us(or the first nation to get to them) (: for the simple reason that we will have to play 1 player with equal resources who can conduct a co-ordinated war. That is hardly fair on me and Lazy.

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/23/2013 10:36:52 AM   
kombrig

 

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I just thought that this would create more equal setting to continue the game. If Madlok simply surrenders then I have absolutely no chance because most of his resources and cities will fall to Kyoto for sure and my rear is opened. But anyway, if Madlok wants to quit, I have no problem if he simply surrenders without giving troops, cities etc to me.

< Message edited by kombrig -- 3/23/2013 10:39:54 AM >

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/23/2013 2:24:24 PM   
LazyBoy

 

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I am happy to continue or stop, up to you guys.

Huge losses is what we Chinese are good at :)

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RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/24/2013 11:34:31 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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My strategy is to attack Sultinate,s oil, but this is not going to work, because movement and attacking oil use has been halved.
That allows Sultinate with 5 working oil resources and under 6000 oil, to be able to fly more planes than me and still run all his armour and half tracks.

In a normal game I would be struggling to fly my ST bombers

I did not understand this change and spent a lot on upgrading Oil and Raw which now appears to be unnecessary.

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Post #: 28
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/24/2013 4:42:08 PM   
kombrig

 

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Since it is a test game I can reveal some secrets. Most of my air force is in defense because of the lack of oil (I can't use them in attack). And about 1/3 of my armour I can't use because of the same reason. I can really use my armoured spearhead plus a few units here an there. But I have actually more armour and motorized units which I can't move. Tehy are waiting for better times. Also I have to keep oil to counter your strategic bomber attacks. Last turns I have been producing synthetic oil (about half of my city production goes there) and have been upgrading my oil. Plus I had to spend resources on oil locations AA defence.

I am also not sure if I can actually fly more planes than you. Indeed my defending fighters probably do not consume so much oil than the attacking planes because they usually have to fly shorter distance to engage the attacker. Also don't forget that defending fighters consume about twice the less oil in combat than in attack (this was already in the stock ATG).

Basically every successful strategic bomber attack against my oil hinders my movement and attack power on the field.

So in conclusion upgrading resources is actually very necessary. I concentrated at first only on raw because it seemed that there is quite a lot of oil. But I should have concentrated equally on both because the motorised force grew too big and started to suck my oil rapidly.



< Message edited by kombrig -- 3/24/2013 6:02:14 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: 1vs1 or 2vs2 with new rules - 3/24/2013 7:30:43 PM   
Madlok


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The first time I saw this map I thought "OMG, this game will be so maneuvered and attack favorable, so I will made lots of guerrillas" XD. Now we have full front line covered by hundreds of rifles and bazookas. And I was attacking with tanks in forest like crazy (or stupid) XD.


< Message edited by Madlok -- 3/24/2013 7:32:13 PM >


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