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Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/25/2013 6:31:28 PM   
Helldiver


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Question: the manual in 7.2.1.7 suggests that supply at a base may be attacked and reduced by either port attack or airfield attack. Is one or the other more effective in reducing the supply remaining at a base and therefore available to the LCUs there stationed? If my intention is to reduce supply in preparation for a subsequent ground attack on an isolated base, which type of attack is preferable? Even with FOW, is there a sense of how much supply is damaged by each hit reported?

Happy Trails.
Helldiver
Post #: 1
RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/25/2013 6:42:40 PM   
Lokasenna


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I have no idea how much is damaged by each hit, but any damage you inflict will use up supply - either from LCUs needing to repair disabled squads/devices, or engineers needing to fix airfield or port damage.

Additionally, you can hit the supply dumps at the airfield or port. The replay will tell you when this happens, and the combat summary will say something like "Airfield Supply hits 1" or "Port Supply hits 1".

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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/25/2013 7:01:29 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I have no idea how much is damaged by each hit, but any damage you inflict will use up supply - either from LCUs needing to repair disabled squads/devices, or engineers needing to fix airfield or port damage.

Additionally, you can hit the supply dumps at the airfield or port. The replay will tell you when this happens, and the combat summary will say something like "Airfield Supply hits 1" or "Port Supply hits 1".


There was a recent, like in the last three weeks, thread on this. Alred found the dev thread where the changes to the old system (which was 1% per hit I believe) were detailed. Essentially, now the damage per hit is a function of the device/ordnance, plus some math. It's in that thread. But a 500 lb bomb does less on average than a 1000 lb.

Also, repairing air field and port damage does not use supply. Only building them to a new level does.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/25/2013 7:02:25 PM >


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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/25/2013 7:56:55 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 7301
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I have no idea how much is damaged by each hit, but any damage you inflict will use up supply - either from LCUs needing to repair disabled squads/devices, or engineers needing to fix airfield or port damage.

Additionally, you can hit the supply dumps at the airfield or port. The replay will tell you when this happens, and the combat summary will say something like "Airfield Supply hits 1" or "Port Supply hits 1".


There was a recent, like in the last three weeks, thread on this. Alred found the dev thread where the changes to the old system (which was 1% per hit I believe) were detailed. Essentially, now the damage per hit is a function of the device/ordnance, plus some math. It's in that thread. But a 500 lb bomb does less on average than a 1000 lb.

Also, repairing air field and port damage does not use supply. Only building them to a new level does.


Thanks, did not know. I figured it used supply as well as stopping fort building.

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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/25/2013 9:40:39 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I have no idea how much is damaged by each hit, but any damage you inflict will use up supply - either from LCUs needing to repair disabled squads/devices, or engineers needing to fix airfield or port damage.

Additionally, you can hit the supply dumps at the airfield or port. The replay will tell you when this happens, and the combat summary will say something like "Airfield Supply hits 1" or "Port Supply hits 1".


There was a recent, like in the last three weeks, thread on this. Alred found the dev thread where the changes to the old system (which was 1% per hit I believe) were detailed. Essentially, now the damage per hit is a function of the device/ordnance, plus some math. It's in that thread. But a 500 lb bomb does less on average than a 1000 lb.

Also, repairing air field and port damage does not use supply. Only building them to a new level does.


Thanks, did not know. I figured it used supply as well as stopping fort building.


It should. But it doesn't. Maybe compensation for the attacked player not having any control over his engineers running out to fix a runway he has no planes for, and not working on forts which he has need of.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/26/2013 1:18:07 PM >


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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/25/2013 10:20:04 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Even if it doesn't reduce supply significantly, airport strike is still very valuable in keeping the besieged base fort level from going

Does anybody knows if AA instensity is the same on airfield vs ground attacks?
maybe I am getting paranoid, but I think ground strike gives me a lot more aircraft losses than airfield or port ... Overall, I avoid ground attack until the very few turns before launching a deliberate attaack

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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/26/2013 5:56:34 PM   
Helldiver


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Moose.

Thanks. I guess you mean the "Logistics 101" update from Alfred? I couldn't find anything else by him that seemed to fit and the "search" function returned nothing. Bottom line seems to be FOW makes everything iffy, but the boomier the device, the more damage AND that the attacking player really can't get an accurate handle on the amount of supply damaged.... now that I think more about it, I guess that's fine, both historically and in terms of game play.... still, it would be nice to know when supply destruction is making the bombees ripe for a "minus" during a planned ground attack...

Helldiver.

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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/26/2013 6:44:35 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Even if it doesn't reduce supply significantly, airport strike is still very valuable in keeping the besieged base fort level from going


Jorge,

You misunderstand. Supply *is* used whilest building a port / airfield to a larger size. Supply is *not* used when simply repairing damage.

Supply is destroyed during airfield / port bombardment-significantly.

So, as a player, does 'bombing airfields or port facilities' destroy enemy supply? Yes, quite likely. The specifics of how and when in the bombing / rebuilding process are confusing to many and easily conflated. It's best to be very specific with one's questions for a very specific answer.

So, OP, is one type of attack 'better' at reducing supply? I think the answer that said "more hits = more better" is closest to the mark. It seems to me as though airfield / base supply hits are easier to obtain than port hits.

Which is 'better' for a pending attack? Kind of depends on the nature of your attack.

If you are planning on assaulting an Atoll or island by amphibious assault, there's no question-I'd focus on PORT attacks. Much better chance to disrupt naval CDs and other defensive naval fortifications by port attack. Plus, the amphibious cover (ship to shore bombardment) will likely be improved-you can get in closer with more stuff without it being shot up.

If you are planning on an overland assault into a hex with both a port and airfield (e.g., Bataan from Clark on Luzon), then I'd probably say airfield. More hits = more supply destruction.

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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/26/2013 7:06:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helldiver

Moose.

Thanks. I guess you mean the "Logistics 101" update from Alfred? I couldn't find anything else by him that seemed to fit and the "search" function returned nothing. Bottom line seems to be FOW makes everything iffy, but the boomier the device, the more damage AND that the attacking player really can't get an accurate handle on the amount of supply damaged.... now that I think more about it, I guess that's fine, both historically and in terms of game play.... still, it would be nice to know when supply destruction is making the bombees ripe for a "minus" during a planned ground attack...

Helldiver.


Alfred didn't start it, so Search is hard. He might weigh in here; he has an uncanny ability to find threads.

You are correct that the boomier (I don't recall the Editor field that is; Effect maybe?) the exploding device the more supply potentially lost. Then there's other stuff applied, especially randoms. And you are correct that the attacker never really knows how well he's doing in exact terms. He also doesn't know how much is coming in unless every hex side is closed and must account for organically-produced supply if the base has industry or gets "free" supply as a few do, especially in China.

I think a lot of players try to over-think this kind of thing and end up in the weeds worrying about 17% supply destruction versus 24% and forget to have a grand or even a regional strategy. When you attack if you get a (-) on his supply line in the combat report--you done good.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/26/2013 7:09:52 PM >


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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/26/2013 7:17:11 PM   
Helldiver


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Chickenboy.

Thank you for the clarification. Yes, it is exactly Bataan. I will concentrate on airfield attacks to work over the supply pile for a while. I sometimes avoid being too specific because I don't always want too specific an answer in terms of "behind the curtain" mechanics. I like to preserve some of the suspension of disbelief in gameplay. Your answer is specific enough for me.

Happy Trails.
Helldiver

(in reply to Chickenboy)
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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/26/2013 7:27:14 PM   
aphrochine


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From: Phoenix, AZ
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I've seen up to 2000 supply destroyed from heavy airfield bombing. It's very real, dont dismiss it.

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RE: Reduction of Supply by Bombing? - 2/27/2013 8:06:05 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helldiver

Moose.

Thanks. I guess you mean the "Logistics 101" update from Alfred? I couldn't find anything else by him that seemed to fit and the "search" function returned nothing. Bottom line seems to be FOW makes everything iffy, but the boomier the device, the more damage AND that the attacking player really can't get an accurate handle on the amount of supply damaged.... now that I think more about it, I guess that's fine, both historically and in terms of game play.... still, it would be nice to know when supply destruction is making the bombees ripe for a "minus" during a planned ground attack...

Helldiver.


Alfred didn't start it, so Search is hard. He might weigh in here; he has an uncanny ability to find threads.

You are correct that the boomier (I don't recall the Editor field that is; Effect maybe?) the exploding device the more supply potentially lost. Then there's other stuff applied, especially randoms. And you are correct that the attacker never really knows how well he's doing in exact terms. He also doesn't know how much is coming in unless every hex side is closed and must account for organically-produced supply if the base has industry or gets "free" supply as a few do, especially in China.

I think a lot of players try to over-think this kind of thing and end up in the weeds worrying about 17% supply destruction versus 24% and forget to have a grand or even a regional strategy. When you attack if you get a (-) on his supply line in the combat report--you done good.


Hmm, I don't log on for a few days and I see in my absence a lot of "over-think".

Have a read of this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2583518&mpage=1&key=bomb%2Csize?

although there are plenty of others covering the same topic.

A couple of points to bear in mind. Firstly, a hit is a hit, it does not per se indicate damage was inflicted. Secondly, when damage is inflicted, the supply lost is a random amount based on the device's effect and anti-soft ratings. This means that the damage could be anything from 1 to [(device effect)(anti-soft rating)]/100.

There is therefore a trade off between bigger bombs tending to give a bigger "boomski" compared to more but smaller bombs having statistically a better chance to actually hit.

Alfred

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 12
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