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Something about this game in China

 
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Something about this game in China - 2/25/2013 4:36:32 PM   
linlishuo

 

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Hey guys and devs.

Questions first:

1.Does PITF has Asia Server?
I just aware that some guys said it is laggy when they carry out multiplayer game. Luckily it is smooth , at least not laggy here in China.

2.Sudden fatigue occurs when there isn't any movement in the new beta version. Has anyone encountered this situation?

3.It is difficult to move the map in strategic map. Sometimes I have to click twice to switch to hand icon, and sometimes I click for a long time without any response.

4.I think the time for mortar aiming needn't to be that accurate. An varied time of preparation would be more realistic, ranging from immediate time to 30 second (even in situation of long distance). But just a suggestion.


------------------------

I'm a Chinese CC fan and we have about 50 guys who bought the game in recent months. Though the number is small but we are excited about this game since CC4 & 5 (Close Combat: Battle of the Bulge & Close Combat: Invasion Normandy, only versions with Simplified Chinese). The forums I usually browse, except for Matrix Games forums, are Toaw.org and Tieba.baidu.com. Both forums are in Chinese but we discuss almost similar topics. And there are also new MOD released in these two forums. We have more than 5 QQ groups to request multiplayer games and share experience about CC. Really hope you guys can join our discuss and multiplayer game too LOL.

The truth is, before this PITF, I always play the pirated copies. However this is the very first time I bought the game because Im really fond of it now.

There is the URL of one of the new MOD named Chinese Liberation War (1948.11.9-22). But unfortunely I can't post URL because I'm a newly registered. I can only post it 7 days later. So have to wait till then.

-------------------------
P.S. We Chinese call PITF the CC6 hah hah.
P.P.S Can't wait for the new 3D CC! Hopes there will be scenes of Pacific War

< Message edited by linlishuo -- 2/25/2013 5:04:39 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Something about this game in China - 2/25/2013 7:53:37 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Glad you're enjoying the game.  There is not a game server in China, but we've made some changes to the server and to the game to improve performance, so it's good to know it's working well for you.

Where are you seeing fatigue increasing?  Do you mean a Battle Group fatigue rating, or individual soldeirs?  Battle Groups fatigue goes up if they move or fight a battle.  If a Battle Group's fatigue rating gets too high your soldiers can start the battle 'winded' (or even worse).  Is this what you're seeing?

Steve

(in reply to linlishuo)
Post #: 2
RE: Something about this game in China - 2/26/2013 2:37:45 PM   
vonRocko

 

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"The truth is, before this PITF, I always play the pirated copies. However this is the very first time I bought the game because Im really fond of it now. "
Chinese pirates! I'd say you're a thief.

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 3
RE: Something about this game in China - 2/27/2013 1:58:18 AM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 2810
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Status: online
Welcome to the CC community!

Glad to hear your now supporting continued development of new games/versions.

Looking forward to checking out the mod when you can post the URL.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 4
RE: Something about this game in China - 2/27/2013 9:54:29 AM   
linlishuo

 

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Hah.. not that serious..
But in fact you can download almost anything from China's internet..
I will again buy this game myself in the future.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 5
RE: Something about this game in China - 2/28/2013 1:28:45 PM   
vonRocko

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: linlishuo

Hah.. not that serious..
But in fact you can download almost anything from China's internet..
I will again buy this game myself in the future.



So if I understand this criminal mentality, you are saying just because you CAN do something, you WILL do something. We can steal on American internet also, so don't give me any Chinese internet garbage. But, I guess it's ok with Matrix/slitherine, Steve McClaire sends his blessing, so why should I care. If you're playing pirated games, you are a thief! Simple as that. I have to deal with restrictive DRMs' and other anti pirate measures because of people like you. To top it off, you don't even realize what you are doing is wrong. What a world!


< Message edited by vonRocko -- 2/28/2013 7:08:22 PM >

(in reply to linlishuo)
Post #: 6
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/10/2013 7:41:18 PM   
Thraka

 

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Cool to hear about CC in china :)

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 7
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/16/2013 4:17:12 PM   
rostov

 

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Heard you from TOAW, I'm looking forward of 3D CC too.

(in reply to Thraka)
Post #: 8
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/18/2013 5:09:52 PM   
Alchenar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

So if I understand this criminal mentality, you are saying just because you CAN do something, you WILL do something. We can steal on American internet also, so don't give me any Chinese internet garbage. But, I guess it's ok with Matrix/slitherine, Steve McClaire sends his blessing, so why should I care. If you're playing pirated games, you are a thief! Simple as that. I have to deal with restrictive DRMs' and other anti pirate measures because of people like you. To top it off, you don't even realize what you are doing is wrong. What a world!



If you are going to insist on above industry-average pricing while not budgeting for a demo then it shouldn't really be surprising that people feel it's okay not only to pirate a game in order to try it out but to say openly that they're doing it.

Perhaps it's in Steve/Matrix's interests not to be a dick to someone who's managed to climb over the massive entry barrier to wargaming and has converted into a paying customer and shows every intention of trying to be a paying customer in the future.

Perhaps you should stop being a dick as well.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 9
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/18/2013 6:34:19 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
But, I guess it's ok with Matrix/slitherine, Steve McClaire sends his blessing, so why should I care.


I did not 'give my blessing'. Software piracy is illegal and the OP seems to understand that.

Steve

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 10
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 2:23:59 PM   
vonRocko

 

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[/quote]

If you are going to insist on above industry-average pricing while not budgeting for a demo then it shouldn't really be surprising that people feel it's okay not only to pirate a game in order to try it out but to say openly that they're doing it.

Perhaps it's in Steve/Matrix's interests not to be a dick to someone who's managed to climb over the massive entry barrier to wargaming and has converted into a paying customer and shows every intention of trying to be a paying customer in the future.

Perhaps you should stop being a dick as well.
[/quote]
So that's how you rationalize theft: Oh the game is to expensive and doesn't have a demo, so I'll steal it. What "massive entry barrier into wargaming" are you talking about? How many games have you used this rational to steal? Someone posts that they steal games and I'm the dick? What an age we live in when we can't call a thief a thief! Oh that's right, maybe his mommy didn't give him enough attention, so his stealing can be excused.

< Message edited by vonRocko -- 3/19/2013 2:24:46 PM >

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 11
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 2:34:17 PM   
vonRocko

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
But, I guess it's ok with Matrix/slitherine, Steve McClaire sends his blessing, so why should I care.


I did not 'give my blessing'. Software piracy is illegal and the OP seems to understand that.

Steve


Yeah, but you didn't call him out on stealing games though. How many other slitherine games is he "trying out first" by stealing them? I guess I'm the sucker, I was fool enough to pay for my games.

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 12
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 3:31:09 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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It's worth noting that game piracy is illegal, but unfortunately rampant in many parts of the world. The US and Europe have piracy rates well below those in other areas. We don't condone piracy but at the same time we can't pretend it doesn't exist. Our stance on DRM recognizes the fact that regardless what copy protection you use, pirated copies will be available while loyal customers will be the ones most inconvenienced by elaborate copy protection schemes.

At the same time, we only exist as a business because of those customers who purchase our games instead of stealing them. Every game we make exists because of those folks. If there were more piracy, we wouldn't be making games.

The original post has to be taken as a whole. He admitted piracy in the past, which is something that is indeed the same as theft and which is very disappointing. The unfortunate reality is that probably most gamers in China have downloaded and played pirated software.

However, he also posted about purchasing PITF about 50 other fellow gamers who purchased it in China and some information about the Chinese wargaming community. Frankly, the legal purchase of games in a very piracy-heavy market and information on the Chinese wargaming community is something we welcome and would like to see more of. In the full context, I think Steve's reply was reasonable. Overall, I'd rather welcome someone who has turned their back on piracy and is a positive influence in their community than banish them for participating in it in the past.

Regards,

- Erik




_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 13
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 3:34:01 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32879
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
If you are going to insist on above industry-average pricing while not budgeting for a demo then it shouldn't really be surprising that people feel it's okay not only to pirate a game in order to try it out but to say openly that they're doing it.


Sorry, but piracy is not justified by pricing or demo policies. We recognize that piracy exists. We rely on the trust and loyalty of our customers to keep making the games we make, but let's not make excuses for piracy. I am also very glad that the original poster has turned his back on piracy but in the end, it is still a choice and if you use pirated copies you are stealing.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 14
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 3:37:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
Yeah, but you didn't call him out on stealing games though. How many other slitherine games is he "trying out first" by stealing them? I guess I'm the sucker, I was fool enough to pay for my games.


Please see my first reply. Steve's reply was reasonable given the entire context of the original post. We value customers like you that purchase our games and do not practice piracy very, very highly, but in the real world where piracy is quite common we welcome anyone who has turned their back on piracy and decided to purchase legally. People should have a chance to fix their mistakes.

Regards,

- Erik



< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 3/19/2013 3:38:06 PM >


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 15
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 3:46:04 PM   
Alchenar

 

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I'd just like to be clear - I don't condone piracy in any way.

But it's irrational not to accept that a) there are certain areas of the world in which piracy is the norm and b) the high-cost and low opportunity to trial wargames makes them particularly susceptible to a piracy risk. It isn't condoning a problem to recognise that it exists, and if you want to fix a problem then you have to be prepared to examine at the reasons why it exists instead of resorting to whiny moralism.

There are lots of ways to deal with piracy. Convenient distribution (ie. Steam) is one and it's nice to see Slitherine/Matrix starting to dip their toes into that market looking at the success of Unity of Command and getting Panzer Corps on Greenlight. You can drop prices and run sales to encourage legitimate purchase, something that Slitherine/Matrix have traditionally been extremely cautious with, but again, the success of Unity of Command and Panzer Corps at much lower than usual price points is probably an encouraging sign. And you can improve the user experience of legitimate purchasers with online systems for registered users (which appears to have been the driving motive here).

But you don't get any of that unless you work out why people aren't buying your games, and that means taking an engaging line rather than a disengaging one.


tl;dr: there's a difference between 'justification' and 'explanation'.

< Message edited by Alchenar -- 3/19/2013 3:47:26 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 16
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 3:55:48 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32879
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
But it's irrational not to accept that a) there are certain areas of the world in which piracy is the norm and b) the high-cost and low opportunity to trial wargames makes them particularly susceptible to a piracy risk. It isn't condoning a problem to recognise that it exists, and if you want to fix a problem then you have to be prepared to examine at the reasons why it exists instead of resorting to whiny moralism.


Well, we do accept that, but it also does not excuse piracy. There are many things that I cannot afford, yet I do not steal them. I realize you are not condoning piracy and this is a fine line. I believe we are on the same side of that line, but it's important to distinguish that recognizing the problem is not excusing it.

quote:

There are lots of ways to deal with piracy. Convenient distribution (ie. Steam) is one and it's nice to see Slitherine/Matrix starting to dip their toes into that market looking at the success of Unity of Command and getting Panzer Corps on Greenlight. You can drop prices and run sales to encourage legitimate purchase, something that Slitherine/Matrix have traditionally been extremely cautious with, but again, the success of Unity of Command and Panzer Corps at much lower than usual price points is probably an encouraging sign. And you can improve the user experience of legitimate purchasers with online systems for registered users (which appears to have been the driving motive here).


I agree overall.

It's worth noting that we were the first computer game company to offer digital downloads of games for direct sale online, period. We're also exploring other distribution avenues, for the cases where they apply, but we already offer worldwide download sales to reach markets that don't see our retail releases. We also offer unlimited re-downloads and automated redownloads as long as you are logged in when you purchase.

Our holiday sale each year lasts for about six weeks and was about 35% off this year for most of our catalog. We've also run occasional 50% discounts for targeted releases. We do this to help make our games more affordable to our customers who are on a tighter budget, but it's very important to realize that for most of our products, the same rules that apply to a more mainstream game don't apply. We have just about the best data of any company in the world on these types of games - I recognize Steam has great data on more mainstream titles, but the two are not the same creature. We set our pricing to get the best return for us and our developers, so that we can all keep making and enjoying these kinds of games.

The additional online features such as the multiplayer server and PBEM system are primarily aimed at serving our customers better.

Any additional effect they have in reducing piracy or encouraging legitimate purchases are great, but our primary goal for all our decisions is always to do the best we can for our paying customers. We believe that philosophy, more than any copy protection system, will encourage potential customers who enjoy our games to support us through legitimate game purchases.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 17
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 4:04:43 PM   
Alchenar

 

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I can't argue with the data you have, but I would question the premise that wargames work on inherently different terms to mainstream games and to what extent the reason for that distinction can more likely be summed up as "UI design from the mid 90's."

Obviously I don't expect you to write anything negative about any of your products but it hasn't escaped my notice that the two games here that are either on Steam or making their way there happen to be the two with the most accessible interfaces hands down.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 18
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 4:25:55 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Certainly there's always room for improvement on the interface side, though some of this is also apples and oranges. Many mainstream games with very simple, straightforward and streamlined interfaces also have a lot less that they need the player to do or understand. As complexity increases, the challenge of designing an interface that can handle all the tasks and data increases as well. I think we've done a good job overall of improving the interfaces on our products over time, though we work with each developer on this in an advice and support role and developer philosophies on this subject can also vary widely.

Another thing we recognize is that we exist in a market with games and developers that have 100x - 1000x our development budget on many titles, yet our games are directly compared to their games in all aspects as our customers enjoy playing both.

Yet even if you took (not to pick on it, but just as an example of a very popular, very complex and top selling niche wargame) War in the Pacific and had a team of the best interface designers and programmers in the industry working on redesigning it from the ground up for a year, then put it out on every distribution network known to man, the odds are you would not increase the sales by an amount that justified the additional cost.

There are always decisions that come down to trade-offs and judging the point of diminishing returns. We try to do the best we can within our budget and sales predictions for our customers. Although we also work on general strategy games where the rules are somewhat different, within the wargaming niche we work together with the best developers in computer wargaming and success in that niche is heavily dependent on much more than the interface design. We always try to drive the best possible interface, but it's not the only element that determines success and to get a simple, streamlined interface you often have to adjust the actual design of the game away from complexity to make it possible (just as you have to adjust the design to get the most out of an AI, for example). These kinds of trade-offs are determined for each game based on what that game most needs to be.

With all that said, that challenge can be met and I think many of our recent releases (including PITF) show the progress we've been making. We intend to keep moving the interface standard for computer wargames forward as fast and as far as we can, without compromising what makes a wargame appealing to the customers in our community.

Steam is one example of a very mainstream audience. Their core customer base started with players of the Half Life franchise, though it has grown significantly since then. We look at all kinds of elements, including interface but also complexity, tutorial content, subject matter and playstyle in determining how best to market, distribute and promote each title. As with most of what we do, we try to customize our support to each game and each developer.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 3/19/2013 4:28:59 PM >


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 19
RE: Something about this game in China - 3/19/2013 4:37:43 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 11/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

I'd just like to be clear - I don't condone piracy in any way.

But it's irrational not to accept that a) there are certain areas of the world in which piracy is the norm and b) the high-cost and low opportunity to trial wargames makes them particularly susceptible to a piracy risk. It isn't condoning a problem to recognise that it exists, and if you want to fix a problem then you have to be prepared to examine at the reasons why it exists instead of resorting to whiny moralism.

There are lots of ways to deal with piracy. Convenient distribution (ie. Steam) is one and it's nice to see Slitherine/Matrix starting to dip their toes into that market looking at the success of Unity of Command and getting Panzer Corps on Greenlight. You can drop prices and run sales to encourage legitimate purchase, something that Slitherine/Matrix have traditionally been extremely cautious with, but again, the success of Unity of Command and Panzer Corps at much lower than usual price points is probably an encouraging sign. And you can improve the user experience of legitimate purchasers with online systems for registered users (which appears to have been the driving motive here).

But you don't get any of that unless you work out why people aren't buying your games, and that means taking an engaging line rather than a disengaging one.


tl;dr: there's a difference between 'justification' and 'explanation'.

The world could use a little more "whiny moralism". There is right and there is wrong, no shades of grey for crime. I couldn't care less WHY he steals, all that matters is he stole. No we can't stop it, but we don't have to help them.

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 20
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