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Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs?

 
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Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/24/2013 10:43:59 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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question for the naval experts; why was the Kongo class re-rated as BB?

as we all know, the Kongos were originally old BCs. They were extensively upgraded in the 30s, making them good CV escorts..
That said, why re-rate them as BB? their armor was not up to the standards of any BB I have compared them against. The BC category makes more sense (fast, less armor)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 2/24/2013 10:44:53 PM >
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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/24/2013 11:15:47 PM   
Dili

 

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Probably the same reason as Cavours and Duillios: Political posturing.

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/24/2013 11:51:15 PM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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I think it has to do with the fast Battleship idea after ww1. Same with the Hood afaik.

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/25/2013 7:29:15 AM   
Chris H

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

question for the naval experts; why was the Kongo class re-rated as BB?

as we all know, the Kongos were originally old BCs. They were extensively upgraded in the 30s, making them good CV escorts..
That said, why re-rate them as BB? their armor was not up to the standards of any BB I have compared them against. The BC category makes more sense (fast, less armor)


Only if you don't come up against a BB aka the Hood. I beleive they original purpose was to take on CAs.

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/25/2013 7:53:59 AM   
wdolson

 

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When the Kongos were upgraded in the 1930s they did have their armor belts thickened. Though I agree that it was probably more political than real.

Though they were lacking in armor and a bit antiquated in armament, they ended up being the most useful of the IJN battleships. They were fast enough for a modern conflict and weren't too valuable to commit to combat as the Yamatos were. they lost two in the Guadalcanal campaign, but they gave the Allies a big headache during the fight.

Bill

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/25/2013 1:58:50 PM   
dr.hal


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Recall that this class was developed BEFORE World War ONE! So it is not really fair to bounce them against World War TWO era battleships. In relation to WWI battlecruisers, after modifications made in the interwar period as Bill points out, these ships were much better than any WWI error battlecruiser so there is some justification in saying that they graduated into the battleship realm despite their original configuration. I agree there was some political element to it, but also some actual justification. Hal

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/25/2013 4:31:03 PM   
Lokasenna


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Definitely small battleships, but they proved themselves quite capable. They basically fulfilled the same role as the Iowas, only about 25 years older and a lot smaller... That's pretty interesting to think about, especially considering Japan hadn't even industrialized by 1853.

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/25/2013 6:01:54 PM   
Q-Ball


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The Kongos are my favorite ships in the game. Not because they are the best, but think about it....KONGO was laid down 4 years before Jutland! When she was completed, the US was building the Delawares, and the RN was building LION and QUEEN MARY....that's a good design!



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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/25/2013 8:00:39 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Kongos are great ships! don't get me wrong; it is just that any new player need to be careful on not pitting them against anything bigger than a cruiser; the BB rate can be deceptive

Also interesting to note, Kongo was built in Britain!

cheers



< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 2/25/2013 8:03:41 PM >

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 1:34:25 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Also interesting to note, Kongo was built in Britain!






Yeah and the three others were built by themselves, oh these Asians ;)


< Message edited by Gräfin Zeppelin -- 2/26/2013 1:38:12 AM >


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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 1:46:44 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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The British had a tendency (or I guess bad luck in picking allies) of selling their high end technology to future adversaries

Kongos to Japan, the Rolls Royce Nene to the Soviets, destroyers and AA missiles to Argentina...


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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 2:06:04 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

The British had a tendency (or I guess bad luck in picking allies) of selling their high end technology to future adversaries

Kongos to Japan, the Rolls Royce Nene to the Soviets, destroyers and AA missiles to Argentina...



We poor Germans did not get anything like that

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 2:25:17 AM   
wdolson

 

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Of course Germany was a serious industrial competitor to Britain by 1900 and Japan was the world's last country to emerge from feudalism. Nobody thought Japan was going to be a threat to anyone for at least a century based both on the recentness of their industrialization as well as some latent racism that considered Asians as inferior to Europeans.

Germany was the world leader in some scientific areas in the years before WW I started. They were also a technological leader in some areas. Germany is still one of the strongest economies and a world leader in technology.

Bill

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 2:41:11 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Of course Germany was a serious industrial competitor to Britain by 1900 and Japan was the world's last country to emerge from feudalism. Nobody thought Japan was going to be a threat to anyone for at least a century based both on the recentness of their industrialization as well as some latent racism that considered Asians as inferior to Europeans.

Germany was the world leader in some scientific areas in the years before WW I started. They were also a technological leader in some areas. Germany is still one of the strongest economies and a world leader in technology.

Bill

Still the UK could have gifted us some stuff like the uhm...Home fleet for example

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 5:52:02 AM   
gradenko_2000

 

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Any gifts sent by the UK to Germany in the 1900s would probably have been traveling at several hundred meters per second, with a 13.5 inch diameter :)

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 6:08:35 AM   
wdolson

 

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There was also the issue that the two monarchs were first cousins.

Bill

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 6:48:22 AM   
Dili

 

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Yeah they didn't like to share toys...

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 7:36:35 AM   
oldman45


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I believe I read that during the Boer war the Germans were more than happy to share with the Boers. Maybe that's why the UK was not so inclined to share with Germany.

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 7:44:59 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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Stop that pre WW1 German bashing *pouts*

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 8:25:21 AM   
DivePac88


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I think that the terms of battleship, fast battleship, and battlecruiser are just superficial national designations. Because the Japanese rated the Kongo's as fast battleships, other navies may well have designated them something else to fit their own tactical/political purposes.

The same could be said of the Scharnhorst, which the Germans rated as a small battleship, while the British actually termed them as battlecruisers. Then lastly we have the Iowa's, which were rated as fast battleships by the USN. But if they had of served in the RN, would have been designated as battlecruisers because of their speed.

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RE: Why were Kongos re-rated as BBs? - 2/26/2013 10:27:50 AM   
tocaff


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Hmmm, a heavily armored, 16" gunned and 33 Knot BC. A nasty ship to brawl with regardless of her classification. Those 16" tubes will be sorely missed at sometime in the future.

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