Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
It seems like the hardest thing to understand in this game is base/ship design and how to get the most out of them. I thought it would be great to have one thread to discuss this. What do you need and what do you not need? What stacks and what doesn't? How many of one component is too much or too little?
For example from reading around it seems that 3 extractors is the most you need for any type of mining base/ship. This is exactly the type of tip I am looking for but so hard to find in one place!
I have also seen suggestions to remove all labs from space ports and only put one of each type on each type of research location. But also seen suggestions to put one type of each lab on resort bases to get access to commerce and research in the same spot?
Many suggest lots of construction yards on star ports but only one on a construction ship.
I have seen suggestions to put a commerce center on every base. Why put a medical center on anything else but a spaceport or troopship?
Why put more than one fuel cell or one energy collector on an immobile base?
Is more than one cargo bay only necessary for mining bases/ships and spaceports?
What other tips can you offer?
For example from reading around it seems that 3 extractors is the most you need for any type of mining base/ship. This is exactly the type of tip I am looking for but so hard to find in one place!
I have also seen suggestions to remove all labs from space ports and only put one of each type on each type of research location. But also seen suggestions to put one type of each lab on resort bases to get access to commerce and research in the same spot?
Many suggest lots of construction yards on star ports but only one on a construction ship.
I have seen suggestions to put a commerce center on every base. Why put a medical center on anything else but a spaceport or troopship?
Why put more than one fuel cell or one energy collector on an immobile base?
Is more than one cargo bay only necessary for mining bases/ships and spaceports?
What other tips can you offer?
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
- Small ports to minimalistic design (without any weapons, armor, labs, only 1 construction yard with 1 factory of each type, 1 carbo bay, 1 fuel cell...). Small planets can build them fast and receive bonuses from medical and entertainment centers.
- I never install any weapons at ports. Instead i create megafortresses with tons of shields and missiles - planet must build simple port ASAP first, and then fortify itself. And equip them with long-range scanners, they are surprisingly useful.
- As mentioned above, make specialized lab stations with lots of specifical lab modules (no shields or weaponry). Place 1 of each type them at homeworld and never bother with potential research locations. You can have a wonder with much greater bonus.
- 1 fuel cell is more than enough for orbital base.
- Only 1 resource scanner is required for exploration ship.
- I usually place 25 hi-tech, 25 energy and 10 weapon factories at main spaceport. You won't need much weapon at start, and ships usually have much more other components. Port with 15 yards can churn out ships as hot pies.
- Place as much passenger bays at resorts as you can.
- Remove any excess components from Colonizers.
- Design specialized troopcarriers with LOT of defense.
- I never install any weapons at ports. Instead i create megafortresses with tons of shields and missiles - planet must build simple port ASAP first, and then fortify itself. And equip them with long-range scanners, they are surprisingly useful.
- As mentioned above, make specialized lab stations with lots of specifical lab modules (no shields or weaponry). Place 1 of each type them at homeworld and never bother with potential research locations. You can have a wonder with much greater bonus.
- 1 fuel cell is more than enough for orbital base.
- Only 1 resource scanner is required for exploration ship.
- I usually place 25 hi-tech, 25 energy and 10 weapon factories at main spaceport. You won't need much weapon at start, and ships usually have much more other components. Port with 15 yards can churn out ships as hot pies.
- Place as much passenger bays at resorts as you can.
- Remove any excess components from Colonizers.
- Design specialized troopcarriers with LOT of defense.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: Dd_01
- Small ports to minimalistic design (without any weapons, armor, labs, only 1 construction yard with 1 factory of each type, 1 carbo bay, 1 fuel cell...). Small planets can build them fast and receive bonuses from medical and entertainment centers.
- I never install any weapons at ports. Instead i create megafortresses with tons of shields and missiles - planet must build simple port ASAP first, and then fortify itself. And equip them with long-range scanners, they are surprisingly useful.
- As mentioned above, make specialized lab stations with lots of specifical lab modules (no shields or weaponry). Place 1 of each type them at homeworld and never bother with potential research locations. You can have a wonder with much greater bonus.
- 1 fuel cell is more than enough for orbital base.
- Only 1 resource scanner is required for exploration ship.
- I usually place 25 hi-tech, 25 energy and 10 weapon factories at main spaceport. You won't need much weapon at start, and ships usually have much more other components. Port with 15 yards can churn out ships as hot pies.
- Place as much passenger bays at resorts as you can.
- Remove any excess components from Colonizers.
- Design specialized troopcarriers with LOT of defense.
Wow never build a research station at a research site? One of each type only at the homeworld?
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
Yes. Because:
- Bonuses from different sites of the same type won't stack
- I usually build all "scientific" wonders, and they overcome any possible site bonus (and there's no stacking too)
- Stations in deep space (with scientist characters onboard) are too vulnerable; i can't waste valuable battleships on patrolling them (at least at start)
- At Homeworld, i can easily retrofit them or build additional ones - and my constructors will build something more vital for imperial economy
- Bonuses from different sites of the same type won't stack
- I usually build all "scientific" wonders, and they overcome any possible site bonus (and there's no stacking too)
- Stations in deep space (with scientist characters onboard) are too vulnerable; i can't waste valuable battleships on patrolling them (at least at start)
- At Homeworld, i can easily retrofit them or build additional ones - and my constructors will build something more vital for imperial economy
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: Dd_01
Yes. Because:
- Bonuses from different sites of the same type won't stack
- I usually build all "scientific" wonders, and they overcome any possible site bonus (and there's no stacking too)
- Stations in deep space (with scientist characters onboard) are too vulnerable; i can't waste valuable battleships on patrolling them (at least at start)
- At Homeworld, i can easily retrofit them or build additional ones - and my constructors will build something more vital for imperial economy
Bonuses don't stack? So you can only get the bonus from one site only? And this is why everyone suggest building one base only?
Good points especially about deep space bases not being able to be retrofitted and vulnerable...
- CyclopsSlayer
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:49 pm
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
-Add 4 Fuel cells to explorers, 5 requires additional LS/Hab, Less time spent returning for fuel, more time finding what you want.
I 100% agree with the Base redesigns, never building at R&D locations, building Research Wonders asap. As well I build the Boskara(sic?) Shipyards asap.
R&D bases, drop all the surplus modules and you can double the Labs.
Sure if you centralize all your R&D at the Home planet and lose the location your Research is crippled, but I cannot remember ever losing my home planet.
I 100% agree with the Base redesigns, never building at R&D locations, building Research Wonders asap. As well I build the Boskara(sic?) Shipyards asap.
R&D bases, drop all the surplus modules and you can double the Labs.
Sure if you centralize all your R&D at the Home planet and lose the location your Research is crippled, but I cannot remember ever losing my home planet.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
Bonuses don't stack? So you can only get the bonus from one site only? And this is why everyone suggest building one base only?
Bonus from Locations don't stack, only the best one count.
But even when they don't stack, it's a good idea to claim these, so the other empire don't get these.
I design at startup my home Spaceport to have 10 of each Lab's + Energy collector's and retrofit it. The Research station just minimal with 1 Lab to claim the location bonus.
That's not realy nesesary because the these factories just construct the modules and the Construction yards build the ships from them. So long you got the resources on hold the ships get build very fast. If you got a long waiting queue on a Space port, you are missing some resources.- I usually place 25 hi-tech, 25 energy and 10 weapon factories at main spaceport. You won't need much weapon at start, and ships usually have much more other components. Port with 15 yards can churn out ships as hot pies.
- Add more engines to all private ships. They should have 10-14 depend on size. Don't forget to check if they got enough reactor output to reach full Warp speed.
- Tehlongone
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:38 pm
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
I usually avoid centralizing my research to a few worlds as I view it as a mild exploit (AI don't use it, and it seems against the spirit of the game), but avoiding research locations entirely does not seem a good strategy.
Aside from claiming them simply to avoid the AI having it, getting a good bonus from each location type is still better than nothing, regardless of whether the wonders offer even more research speed (unless I've misunderstood something it WILL stack with the wonders, and it will increase the research cap itself). I agree about the rest, although a few weapons at the port itself makes sense given its position in the center of the alien attack.
An immobile base needs enough energy collectors to be equal to or greater than its static energy drain, provided it has that it just needs a few cells (maybe just 1) for its weapons if attacked.
Cargo bays also makes sense for refuel ships and freighters, though I imagine you already knew that. [;)]
Aside from claiming them simply to avoid the AI having it, getting a good bonus from each location type is still better than nothing, regardless of whether the wonders offer even more research speed (unless I've misunderstood something it WILL stack with the wonders, and it will increase the research cap itself). I agree about the rest, although a few weapons at the port itself makes sense given its position in the center of the alien attack.
Why put more than one fuel cell or one energy collector on an immobile base?
Is more than one cargo bay only necessary for mining bases/ships and spaceports?
An immobile base needs enough energy collectors to be equal to or greater than its static energy drain, provided it has that it just needs a few cells (maybe just 1) for its weapons if attacked.
Cargo bays also makes sense for refuel ships and freighters, though I imagine you already knew that. [;)]
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RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
Question:
Why is 3 extractors the optimal?
Why is 3 extractors the optimal?
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: turtlefang
Question:
Why is 3 extractors the optimal?
tm.asp?m=2966128&mpage=1&key=
Fact: One 3 yield mining device produces 30 units on 100% in a week, that means you need 3,33 extractors for perfect yield since 100% = 100 max is the extraction cap. Since the extraction scales with the quality % it will always be 3,33 extractors!
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RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
Thanks, still trying to figure out how to design ships/bases/starports effectively.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
One ship with a Long Range Sensor...
I have been able to stop MORE trouble with that...
I have been able to stop MORE trouble with that...
Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: tjhkkr
One ship with a Long Range Sensor...
I have been able to stop MORE trouble with that...
+1
Absolute truth in that statement!
I put long range scanners on some of my explorer ship designs which tend to get ignored by enemies - unlike monitoring stations which become prime targets in war. Pepper them around your empire and you have the proverbial 'fly on the wall' scenario.
Because there are no weapons on these ships, I think they become low priority targets - if considered a target at all. Also, you can park them in other race's systems without them barking about military in their territory. Again, the 'fly on the wall'...
Best part - you can MOVE THEM around to where you need them. Something you can't do with monitoring stations.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: Tanaka
I have also seen suggestions to remove all labs from space ports and only put one of each type on each type of research location. But also seen suggestions to put one type of each lab on resort bases to get access to commerce and research in the same spot?
I have seen suggestions to put a commerce center on every base. Why put a medical center on anything else but a spaceport or troopship?
Is more than one cargo bay only necessary for mining bases/ships and spaceports?
What other tips can you offer?
Putting research labs on Resort Bases does not make any sense. I challenged this assertion in another thread and, AFAIK, the person who suggested doing it did not follow-up. So I will make my own assertion and let others challenge it: Research labs do not belong on anything but Research Bases (and for the sake of simplicity, defendability, and maintainability, Space Ports). Only a RESEARCH BASE will give you the research bonus of a particular location. If you settle a planet with a research bonus, not even the Space Port will give you the bonus (fact check).
TIP: I like to have just one Large Space Port design which has research labs. I retrofit it with additional labs as my research potential grows. I only build one of these. My Medium Space Port designs are for all other planets. My Small Space Port design is for bootstrapping colonies when my funds are low. For me this is easy to maintain. I also agree, however, that in the early game snagging a 20%+ research location is worth building the Research Base. Put extractors/mining comps, cargo holds, and a Commerce Center on it to get double the utility (research and resources). In the late game I find Building Research stations a drag and don't bother. The late game is a drag anyway in almost all respects.
Only put commerce centers on bases that generate... uh, commerce. I think this goes without saying but I will say it anyway: if you build a station that (like a Research Sation) that also extracts/mines resources, then ships are going to come and pick up those resources. The Commerce Center gives a bonus to the sell price (fact check--I believe that is essentially all the Commerce Center does).
Why put a Medical Center on anything other than a Space Port is my next question. I don't think Med Centers on Troop Transports are that essential. I would rather have the extra troop space. You will easily get generals that have bonuses to Troop Recovery. That's just my opinion.
Cargo Bays on Space Ports may help make cargo transfers more efficient. I don't know how it works, but it *sounds* like cargo is first put into the hold of the Space Port before it is transfered to a ship docking at that Space Port and vice-versa. So it *seems* that if you only have one cargo bay, you will bottleneck your loading/unloading at the Space Port. This is assuming that the transfer of cargo between the Space Port to the planet is set at some constant value (like the mining speed of the planet itself). What I mean is, again assuming all this is correct, your ships will wait to unload cargo to the Space Port until the Space Port's cargo holds are empty. The Space Port cargo hold won't be empty until the invisible docking component between Space Port and planet moves everything to the planet surface (and vice-versa in the case of outgoing freight). If you have more docking bays on the Space Port than there are these invisible docking bays between the planet and the Space Port, there becomes the bottleneck. I cannot emphasize this enough: this is my conjecture. I haven't bothered trying to figure it out, because I just leave the extra cargo bays on the Space Port per the default design. I think you might be able to put ZERO cargo bays on your Space Ports. If this is the case and it works, then everything I have just written is bollocks (also in which case you should just put no cargo bays on your Space Ports).
For Mining Ships, the question is stickier. It is more fuel efficient to give your mining ships more cargo bays. But I don't think it is wise. I want my Mining Ships constantly trickling in resources to prevent occasions where any one resource becomes too scarce. Mining Ships *appear* to mine locations with resources in high demand. Their method for choosing location is a secret known only to the elite inner circle, but I believe it involves vermuth, permanent markers, and a blood sacrifice to Armok. Many an early game have I pulled my hair out waiting for a mining ship to finish mining silicon at a desert planet while my Colony Ship waits for steel. Having Mining Ships mine less more often mitigates this atrocious behaviour.
Which leads me to my next TIP: Early game, builing a state vessel with a mining component and cargo bay can be a life-saver. I usually choose the Escort design for this. You can tell the state ship EXACTLY what you want it to do. Need steel? Tell it to go mine some. No more are you at the mercy of your capricious private sector mining ships.
Finally, I am going to push back against some "common wisdom" that I have seen in other threads regarding ship design. People seem to overpower their ships. This means putting energy generation in excess of what is optimal. The reasoning behind this is that you want your ship to be able to power all weapons at sprint speed. There is a flaw in this reasoning, however. Ships only sprint for two reasons: 1) to engage and enemy and 2) to escape an enemy while being blocked from hyperspace. I will discuss these two scenarious.
Obviously, when a ship is trying to escape, its biggest priority is not shooting weapons. It will, but it probably wouldn't be trying to escape unless it was already taking damage. And very likely that damge is hitting vital components, like weapons systems. If it isn't, then *hopefully* it is escaping the enemy and leaving weapons range. If it is leaving weapons range, then it can't shoot. So the only time sprinting and weapons fire take place simultaneously during an escape situation is when the ship cannot outrun the enemy and damage is still limited to armor. I do not recommend designing ships around this edge case. You can make an argument for it, but I would argue that the space is better spent on extra weapons because...
When a ship is engaging, as soon as it reaches optimal weapons range, it ceases to sprint and begins firing. So that excess engine power you reserved for sprinting while designing the ship is wasted. Better to use it on weapons fire. And the more firepower you bring, the less likely you are going to encounter the edge case above. Once the ship has engaged, is it most likely using cruise speed. So...
Design ships with adequate energy to fire all weapons at cruising speed. The vast majority of the time this is the situation you will be in during combat.
Others may have insights that lead them to disagree with me. I welcome any correction where my assertions are based on erroneous assumptions or information.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
PS I hope you enjoy my novel.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan
PS I hope you enjoy my novel.
Wow awesome stuff here! Great discussion! Love the state mining tip! [&o]
So its design ships with adequate energy to fire all weapons at cruising speed vs sprint speed.
So my question is how do you do either? Is it just number of reactors? I'm still trying to figure out how do to that in my other thread! [8D]
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
You have to take a lot of these suggestions with a very large grain of salt. It's obvious a lot of folks here play on smaller maps, with tactics that simply don't work well, or at all, on larger maps. If, for example, you play on the maximum size map (15x15) then, unless you haven't bothered to expand properly, you'll quickly discover there's absolutely no way in hell to defend a large empire reactively. Fleets take months to get from one place to another; by the time they arrive the battle will be long over and the enemy will either have disappeared or be on their way to their next target. Unless you don't mind having everything you own and spent months/years building in a system blown straight to sh*t, you'll need to invest a lot in static defenses.
For me, I add a couple of shields and blasters to mining stations for anti-pirate activity, but no more as against any enemy force beyond a frigate they're toast and will simply have to be rebuilt. The more important stations (resort, research) get much better defenses and weaponry and can generally defeat several smaller enemy ships or one larger one. Anything more and the cost of investment/maintenance isn't worth it.
Spaceports, however, are pretty much the key to an entire colonized system and have to be protected. My spaceports are able to take on, and defeat, enemy fleets by themselves; they'll have to, as relief forces won't arrive for months unless luck has them right next door when the attack occurs. These space stations are size 1250/2500/5000 and will kick ass and take names a good percentage of the time. Furthermore, they're also equipped with fighters so the rest of the system can also be defended, to one degree or another. These ports are costly but definitely worth it if you're playing on the largest maps where reaction fleets are simply an exercise in stupidity. On larger maps fleets are always proactive and not reactive (aside from dumb luck) so you use them to attack the enemy or retake lost systems, not defend what you have; defense has to be relegated to bases given the travel times from one end of the empire to the other, and the fact that a few frigates or destroyers on patrol will be wasted in seconds by a decent-sized enemy fleet.
The build tactics are different for larger maps and longer games than they are for smaller maps and shorter games.
For me, I add a couple of shields and blasters to mining stations for anti-pirate activity, but no more as against any enemy force beyond a frigate they're toast and will simply have to be rebuilt. The more important stations (resort, research) get much better defenses and weaponry and can generally defeat several smaller enemy ships or one larger one. Anything more and the cost of investment/maintenance isn't worth it.
Spaceports, however, are pretty much the key to an entire colonized system and have to be protected. My spaceports are able to take on, and defeat, enemy fleets by themselves; they'll have to, as relief forces won't arrive for months unless luck has them right next door when the attack occurs. These space stations are size 1250/2500/5000 and will kick ass and take names a good percentage of the time. Furthermore, they're also equipped with fighters so the rest of the system can also be defended, to one degree or another. These ports are costly but definitely worth it if you're playing on the largest maps where reaction fleets are simply an exercise in stupidity. On larger maps fleets are always proactive and not reactive (aside from dumb luck) so you use them to attack the enemy or retake lost systems, not defend what you have; defense has to be relegated to bases given the travel times from one end of the empire to the other, and the fact that a few frigates or destroyers on patrol will be wasted in seconds by a decent-sized enemy fleet.
The build tactics are different for larger maps and longer games than they are for smaller maps and shorter games.
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: Dd_01
- I usually place 25 hi-tech, 25 energy and 10 weapon factories at main spaceport. You won't need much weapon at start, and ships usually have much more other components. Port with 15 yards can churn out ships as hot pies.
Wasteful. One factory of each type per construction yard. Anything more than that is a waste.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
- feelotraveller
- Posts: 1040
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:08 am
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
Everything you have written is bollocks. [:D] I just wanted to say that. (@jpwrunyan)
Well not everything. Spaceports, however, share cargo space with their colony and hence need zero cargo bays. So all that was bollocks.
Realistically only one of each type of manufacturing plant is needed on a spaceport. Well in excess of 30 construction yards can be supported by one of each with no loss of speed.*
*[The limit you are most likely to run into in a real game is that if you have 30 yards and order 30 carriers maxxed out on fighter bays then you might lose something less than 5% construction speed (if you do this while all construction yards are intially unoccupied).]
Well not everything. Spaceports, however, share cargo space with their colony and hence need zero cargo bays. So all that was bollocks.
Realistically only one of each type of manufacturing plant is needed on a spaceport. Well in excess of 30 construction yards can be supported by one of each with no loss of speed.*
*[The limit you are most likely to run into in a real game is that if you have 30 yards and order 30 carriers maxxed out on fighter bays then you might lose something less than 5% construction speed (if you do this while all construction yards are intially unoccupied).]
RE: Post your optimal base/ship design tips and why!?!
ORIGINAL: feelotraveller
Everything you have written is bollocks. [:D] I just wanted to say that. (@jpwrunyan)
Well not everything. Spaceports, however, share cargo space with their colony and hence need zero cargo bays. So all that was bollocks.
Realistically only one of each type of manufacturing plant is needed on a spaceport. Well in excess of 30 construction yards can be supported by one of each with no loss of speed.*
*[The limit you are most likely to run into in a real game is that if you have 30 yards and order 30 carriers maxxed out on fighter bays then you might lose something less than 5% construction speed (if you do this while all construction yards are intially unoccupied).]
Wow zero cargo bays and only one plant each at all spaceports?