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What's missing? - 2/17/2013 3:51:04 PM   
Gunner98


Posts: 424
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline 		This will be childs play to you guys but I think its a great photo anyway. What CV class is missing from this pic?






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RE: What's missing? - 2/17/2013 5:16:56 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: online 		It's a classic. Missing the Ranger and the Wasp.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/17/2013 5:26:53 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 14847
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From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online 		I'll answer the OP's question in the requested format for the score, Alex. "What are CV classes Wasp and Ranger?"

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RE: What's missing? - 2/17/2013 6:12:38 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: ME-FL-NE ? "Cloud Coo-coo land"
Status: offline 		The question should be "The surviving USN WW2 CV and CVL classes" (at the end of the war). And the correct reply is "What is the USS Ranger (CV-4)".

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 2/17/2013 6:13:21 PM >

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RE: What's missing? - 2/17/2013 7:46:02 PM   
Gunner98


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Status: offline 		Or - The USN WW2 CV/CVLs used in the Pacific? - What is the Wasp CV-7

All obviously correct. I didn't realize the Big E was that much smaller than the Essex class (Saratoga in this case) and even the Hornet.

Does anyone know what those large 'boxes' are on the flight deck of the Sara near the stern? Temporary yard facilities perhaps?


BG

< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 2/17/2013 7:47:09 PM >

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RE: What's missing? - 2/17/2013 8:09:25 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: ME-FL-NE ? "Cloud Coo-coo land"
Status: offline 		Ranger went to the Pacific in 1945. But she didn't forward deploy.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/17/2013 8:17:28 PM   
Gunner98


Posts: 424
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Status: offline 		OK - didn't know that.

I see she passed the Panama Canal in mid July 44 and spent over a year training air groups out of San Diago and Perl. Learn something new every day - thanks.

B

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RE: What's missing? - 2/17/2013 9:35:46 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

The question should be


But wasn't.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/18/2013 1:36:36 AM   
dr.hal


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Status: offline 		It would be a fantastic photo if we could compare one of today's big deck CVNs. I didn't realize the Sara was that large in comparison to her competition. That BC hull was something.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/18/2013 3:03:19 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

It would be a fantastic photo if we could compare one of today's big deck CVNs. I didn't realize the Sara was that large in comparison to her competition. That BC hull was something.


I've always loved the Lexington-class CVs. Wikipedia says 888 ft. vs 820 ft. for Essex., and 770 ft. for Yorktowns.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/18/2013 7:52:48 AM   
Chris H

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

It would be a fantastic photo if we could compare one of today's big deck CVNs. I didn't realize the Sara was that large in comparison to her competition. That BC hull was something.


I've always loved the Lexington-class CVs. Wikipedia says 888 ft. vs 820 ft. for Essex., and 770 ft. for Yorktowns.


In the two book references I have the short Essex was 872', long 888', Yorktown 809', Saratoga (BC hull) 888' and Wasp 741'. All figures rounded.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/18/2013 2:10:55 PM   
Ddog

 

Posts: 183
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Status: offline 		For the uneducated among us, could someone name them left to right please. From the post I can tell the Saratoga has the boxes ob the flight deck.

Thanks!

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Post #: 12
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 12:29:17 AM   
Gunner98


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Status: offline 		CV-3 Saratoga (Lexington class), CV-6 Enterprise (Yorktown class), CV-12 Hornet (Essex class), and CVL-30 San Jacinto (Independence class Light carrier)

B

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Post #: 13
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 12:48:07 AM   
Ddog

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

CV-3 Saratoga (Lexington class), CV-6 Enterprise (Yorktown class), CV-12 Hornet (Essex class), and CVL-30 San Jacinto (Independence class Light carrier)

B


Thanks Gunner

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Post #: 14
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 1:03:08 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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Status: offline 		A dozen Vals is missing >_<


(Very nice picture didnt knew it)

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 1:21:30 AM   
Gunner98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

A dozen Vals is missing >_<



Only because we can't see the scoreboard on the side of the Island . According to this video, the Big E accounted for 911 A/C and 71 ships destroyed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gclfP2v10lY

B

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Post #: 16
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 2:07:59 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Still boil thinking about her and Saratoga being scrapped. We can save bunches of BBs but not the truly historic ships...

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 2:21:35 AM   
Gunner98


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Status: offline 		Have no Idea on what goes into a decision like that - would it have anything to do with all the bumps and bruises those two old ladies had taken over the years - I mean the Big E certainly attracted her share of Japanese steel over the years...

B

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Post #: 18
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 2:32:34 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Have no Idea on what goes into a decision like that - would it have anything to do with all the bumps and bruises those two old ladies had taken over the years - I mean the Big E certainly attracted her share of Japanese steel over the years...

B


All the better for a museum ship.

Saratoga wasn't scrapped, was she? I thought she was sunk in nuke tests.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 2:34:47 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Still boil thinking about her and Saratoga being scrapped. We can save bunches of BBs but not the truly historic ships...


I believe the difference is because Congress, in one form or another, insisted upon the Navy keeping the BBs around "just in case", despite the Navy's protests that they weren't really economical to maintain and use.

Nothing against the Intrepid itself, but that should be Enterprise sitting there at the pier in Manhattan as a museum.

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Post #: 20
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 2:13:13 PM   
Paladin1dcs


Posts: 165
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From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		If you're going to include the WASP in the list of missing CVs, which was sunk, why not the Langley? Granted, she'd been turned into an aircraft ferry by the start of the war, but to the best of my knowledge she was still capable of limited flight operations even then. She just didn't have the catapults needed to launch the "modern" aircraft that the USN was using at the time.

I'd also like to see the MIDWAY in the picture, just for a size comparison since that class was built on the MONTANA class hull and I've heard that the ESSEX class was built around a modified IOWA hull.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 2:47:32 PM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

A dozen Vals is missing >_<



Only because we can't see the scoreboard on the side of the Island . According to this video, the Big E accounted for 911 A/C and 71 ships destroyed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gclfP2v10lY

B

They really really should not have scrapped her.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 4:01:57 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 645
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From: Denver
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Have no Idea on what goes into a decision like that - would it have anything to do with all the bumps and bruises those two old ladies had taken over the years - I mean the Big E certainly attracted her share of Japanese steel over the years...

B


All the better for a museum ship.

Saratoga wasn't scrapped, was she? I thought she was sunk in nuke tests.


She was in fact sunk at Bikini. <edited for clarity>

< Message edited by Lecivius -- 2/19/2013 4:02:16 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 5:54:04 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Have no Idea on what goes into a decision like that - would it have anything to do with all the bumps and bruises those two old ladies had taken over the years - I mean the Big E certainly attracted her share of Japanese steel over the years...

B


All the better for a museum ship.

Saratoga wasn't scrapped, was she? I thought she was sunk in nuke tests.


She was in fact sunk at Bikini. <edited for clarity>


Not that that's much less of a crime than scrapping. I guess if we wanted, we could go dive there... Water is pretty dense and shields well from radiation, so I guess it wouldn't be too much of a risk, depending on how close you got...

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Post #: 24
RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 6:36:41 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 14847
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladin1dcs

If you're going to include the WASP in the list of missing CVs, which was sunk, why not the Langley?


Not to be too technical, but the OP asked for missing CV classes per se, not CVE or CVL classes. A list of missing CVE, CVL or aircraft ferry classes missing from the picture would have been substantially longer.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 8:59:15 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12008
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From: ME-FL-NE ? "Cloud Coo-coo land"
Status: offline 		In fairness , it takes a GREAT deal of money to preserve a large warship. Generally even cities can't do it (As Jacksonville has found out trying to preserve a supercarrier). About the only standing US entity that can afford it are states. So supposing it's 1946-50 , and your state wants a war memorial. If you are the state of Alabamba are you going to take the Saipan? Or the ship named after your state? And some states simply didn't want to ante up the money , like Washington. The ship had a very enviable war record, but that didn't matter. All the state wanted was the bell.


Enterprise was considered useful as a CVS and as a result wasn't up for disposal till the late 50's. By then everybody had their ships , and even Halsy couldn't put together enough private money to save her. And frankly , most WW2 vets were busy trying re-build their lives, the money was needed for homes,businesses, and educating their kids. It wouldn't be till the late 70's-early 80's that sentimentality went to preserving another round of warships. Some like Hornet,Midway,and Intrepid were very successful. Others like Cabot , were abject failures.

I find myself amazed that as many ships are preserved as there are , even though some like Olympia and Texas always seem ready to flounder due to lack of maintainannce or funds.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 9:24:05 PM   
Paladin1dcs


Posts: 165
Joined: 7/7/2011
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladin1dcs

If you're going to include the WASP in the list of missing CVs, which was sunk, why not the Langley?


Not to be too technical, but the OP asked for missing CV classes per se, not CVE or CVL classes. A list of missing CVE, CVL or aircraft ferry classes missing from the picture would have been substantially longer.

True, but LANGLEY wasn't a CVE or a CVL, she was classified as CV-1. Granted, by the time that the KB made it's call on PH it wasn't even an active carrier of any type, being regulated to transporting aircraft instead of launching them, but she was still the first true American CV.

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RE: What's missing? - 2/19/2013 9:44:32 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

In fairness , it takes a GREAT deal of money to preserve a large warship. Generally even cities can't do it (As Jacksonville has found out trying to preserve a supercarrier). About the only standing US entity that can afford it are states. So supposing it's 1946-50 , and your state wants a war memorial. If you are the state of Alabamba are you going to take the Saipan? Or the ship named after your state? And some states simply didn't want to ante up the money , like Washington. The ship had a very enviable war record, but that didn't matter. All the state wanted was the bell.


Enterprise was considered useful as a CVS and as a result wasn't up for disposal till the late 50's. By then everybody had their ships , and even Halsy couldn't put together enough private money to save her. And frankly , most WW2 vets were busy trying re-build their lives, the money was needed for homes,businesses, and educating their kids. It wouldn't be till the late 70's-early 80's that sentimentality went to preserving another round of warships. Some like Hornet,Midway,and Intrepid were very successful. Others like Cabot , were abject failures.

I find myself amazed that as many ships are preserved as there are , even though some like Olympia and Texas always seem ready to flounder due to lack of maintainannce or funds.


Money is definitely a huge issue. Milwaukee was trying to preserve the Des Moines as a museum ship (if I remember correctly), but wasn't able to piece together enough support and she was scrapped instead in 2009. Apart from somebody setting up a giant trust for the purpose, outside of state-sponsored museums it's just not going to happen.

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Post #: 28
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