Matrix Games Forums

To End All Wars: Mountain InfantryPandora: Eclipse of Nashira Announced! Deal of the Week: Command Ops goes half price!New Fronts are opening up for Commander: The Great WarCharacters of World War 1Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great War
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

AMCs

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> AMCs Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
AMCs - 2/14/2013 10:35:31 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Quick question: How are AMCs treated for unload rate purposes? Are they the equivalent of navalized AP - AK (as opposed to xAP or xAK?)

While on the subject, how to other use them?

As Allies, I noticed they are the only vessel other than APD that can fast transport troops; have you used that?

As Japan, I usually used them as extra landing ships/escorts; I didn't typically raid with them

Greyjoy did some raiding against me, and had some success, though the main problem with them is the low crew ratings. They get pasted by a warship.
Post #: 1
RE: AMCs - 2/14/2013 11:03:07 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 2555
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
This is something I've wondered as well...

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 2
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 1:01:35 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8138
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Yes, AMC are transport ships for purposes of load/unload. They have the same rates as an AP.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 3
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 1:36:09 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6818
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
I mainly use them as an AP, carrying troops, usually a division or a big unit. They're better if there are shore guns and for an IJN ship, unload quickly. I've occasionally used them in fast transport roles as well.

As raiders I wouldn't find them too useful, especially considering their value elsewhere.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 4
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 2:43:46 AM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4005
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
As Allies, I noticed they are the only vessel other than APD that can fast transport troops; have you used that?


APDs are great..you don't get enough of them. You can convert all of the Clemson class DDs to them, and they have the best return IMO when you can compare the classes.

Looks like you'll be swimming in DEs by wars end, so converting the Clemsons to APDs vs DEs is a better ROC (Return on Conversion )



< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 2/15/2013 2:50:22 AM >


_____________________________

Follow our WiTPAE team PBEM game against bilbow and hartwig.modrow http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2965846&mpage=1&key=?

Follow my WITPAE PBEM game against Schanilec. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3495605

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 5
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 4:32:09 AM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline
I struggle with the idea of using APDs. Do they still get used in standard amphibious assaults, just with faster deposit rates? Do people still use them as escorts (the clemsons do get a boost in ASW as an APD). I can imagnie the guns are a small help for landings, but the ASW version just seems so much more useful all around.

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 6
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 7:37:27 AM   
Capt Hornblower


Posts: 214
Joined: 10/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

...As Allies, I noticed they are the only vessel other than APD that can fast transport troops; have you used that?...


I'm currently playing a solo campaign as the Allies, and I used a Brit AMC to extract the remnants of the Victoria Point (Burma) base unit from the panhandle. (Silly little rescue op.)

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 7
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 12:12:48 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 12262
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Quick question: How are AMCs treated for unload rate purposes? Are they the equivalent of navalized AP - AK (as opposed to xAP or xAK?)

While on the subject, how to other use them?

As Allies, I noticed they are the only vessel other than APD that can fast transport troops; have you used that?

As Japan, I usually used them as extra landing ships/escorts; I didn't typically raid with them

Greyjoy did some raiding against me, and had some success, though the main problem with them is the low crew ratings. They get pasted by a warship.



I've head QE fight it out with two Japanese AMC in daylight during the first couple of turns and QE outright sunk one of the AMC with her 6 inch guns, damaging the other one. QE having a naval exp that really sucks I thought those AMC really have to suck in a raider role. In no campaign they have caused me any problem not even headache. Wouldn't use them as anything else than a transport.

_____________________________


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 8
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 12:23:03 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 3899
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: vermont
Status: offline
If history is any guide it ought to be noted that the Japanese ultimately made regular transports out of their AMCs.

It should also be noted that an Indian Navy corvette with one 4" gun (escorting a tanker) sank one IJN AMC and drove off another in late 1942. Not exactly the IJNs finest hour.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 9
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 12:26:12 PM   
Itdepends

 

Posts: 693
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline
The allies do get a couple of CM's that can be used in fast transport - useful after they've run out of VH mines.

(in reply to Capt Hornblower)
Post #: 10
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 2:12:46 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 701
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Lima and Toronto
Status: offline
Playing Japan I used them mostly as xAPs and I haven't seen any significant difference in terms of loading/ unloading compared to xAPs / xAKs ... but notice I still have the early war Japanese bonus

As per raiders: in my opinion they are too "valuable" to risk as raiders. That said, In my current game, playing as Japan, I used the 2 AMCs that starts the war in the south pacific as raiders; close to New Caledonia; results were mixed:
- one found a TK and sunk it
- the other one found a convoy escorted by a cruiser. It was a brief battle, with few shots traded before breaking off: AMC received 2 or 3 deck penetration hits that started a fire that eventually doomed the ship a couple of days later.

(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 11
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 2:41:50 PM   
Gunner98


Posts: 911
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline
I usually use the Brit and Ausi AMCs in convoys as surface escort early on when DDs are in short supply. They tend to take damage or sink before the other ships in the convoy so I suspect they are intervening while the others escape (I don't watch the battles so am not sure).

B

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 12
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 3:27:57 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Good replies, thanks!

I basically use them the same way it seems: As interesting transports. I like them in invasions, as they have a little more heft than a standard transport

Commerce raiding is too risky; as I said, Greyjoy did sink a couple tankers with his, but eventually I tracked down and sank a couple AMCs, he probably felt it wasn't worth it anymore to raid.

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 13
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 3:41:44 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline

I saw some folks ask about APD transport and amph landing. You should double check the manual but I am pretty sure that units loaded on APDs accumulate a lot of disruption, or at least gain a lot of disruption in an amph landing. This doesn't really matter when you are picking UP units in FT mode or dropping something off at a friendly base. But if you think packing some Marine Raiders to hit a lightly defended base you might be surprised to find them with 50 disruption even when 100% prepped.

Like I said earlier, I'd double check this in the table that lists disruption accumulation for various types of transport. (For instance I believe barges have a large accumulation rating). In fact I could also be mixing up fatigue and disruption ;)


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 14
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 4:11:17 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8321
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

The allies do get a couple of CM's that can be used in fast transport - useful after they've run out of VH mines.


I just tried a couple as an experiment, and while those (Dutch I think they were) can join FT TFs they can't carry any troops. Which ones can?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 15
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 5:39:25 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 2555
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

The allies do get a couple of CM's that can be used in fast transport - useful after they've run out of VH mines.


I just tried a couple as an experiment, and while those (Dutch I think they were) can join FT TFs they can't carry any troops. Which ones can?


The Abdiel is the only Allied CM with any troop capacity (250). It is British.

There are also 2 British AGs that can carry 100 troops each (Kedah and Matang), however they aren't exactly quick at 17 and 14 knots respectively.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 16
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 6:53:55 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6094
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
Brad, i tried to used them early in the war but you tracked down my plans and easily countered them.

However, in the first stages of the war a good AMC, with torps and a good leader, along with float planes can be damned usefull for the japs. If you find a couple of unescorted convoys you can easily sink some loaded ships in the middle of the ocean and gain enough exp to become very fast another big threat to deal with for the allies.
Against Rader he used that tactic against me and sunk a couple of unescorted convoys which had troops aboard...only using those big torpedo loaded marus....

Those armoured merchants can be used as raiders, imho.

For the allies you can use the PG sosarbaja and PC taney with the same pourpose...those guys have BIG guns!!!!!

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 17
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 7:09:03 PM   
Kull


Posts: 1056
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

As per raiders: in my opinion they are too "valuable" to risk as raiders. That said, In my current game, playing as Japan, I used the 2 AMCs that starts the war in the south pacific as raiders; close to New Caledonia; results were mixed:
- one found a TK and sunk it
- the other one found a convoy escorted by a cruiser. It was a brief battle, with few shots traded before breaking off: AMC received 2 or 3 deck penetration hits that started a fire that eventually doomed the ship a couple of days later.


Mine "found" CV Lexington & company. The results decidedly weren't mixed.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 18
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 9:14:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8321
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

The allies do get a couple of CM's that can be used in fast transport - useful after they've run out of VH mines.


I just tried a couple as an experiment, and while those (Dutch I think they were) can join FT TFs they can't carry any troops. Which ones can?


The Abdiel is the only Allied CM with any troop capacity (250). It is British.

There are also 2 British AGs that can carry 100 troops each (Kedah and Matang), however they aren't exactly quick at 17 and 14 knots respectively.


Thanks.

The things you learn around here . . .

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 19
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 9:15:56 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8321
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Brad, i tried to used them early in the war but you tracked down my plans and easily countered them.

However, in the first stages of the war a good AMC, with torps and a good leader, along with float planes can be damned usefull for the japs. If you find a couple of unescorted convoys you can easily sink some loaded ships in the middle of the ocean and gain enough exp to become very fast another big threat to deal with for the allies.
Against Rader he used that tactic against me and sunk a couple of unescorted convoys which had troops aboard...only using those big torpedo loaded marus....

Those armoured merchants can be used as raiders, imho.

For the allies you can use the PG sosarbaja and PC taney with the same pourpose...those guys have BIG guns!!!!!


There are AI commerce raiding scripts that get called sometimes. I've seen AMCs raiding at least as far as Canton Island in the first three months of the war. They can deal with most escorts the USN has at that time.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 20
RE: AMCs - 2/15/2013 10:38:05 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6818
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


There are AI commerce raiding scripts that get called sometimes. I've seen AMCs raiding at least as far as Canton Island in the first three months of the war. They can deal with most escorts the USN has at that time.


Two AMCs, Aikoku Maru and the Hokoku Maru I think, start the war SSE of Canton Island, so it's actually hard to not have them raid even if you're trying to get them back to safe territory. I've twice had mine sunk by CVs while sneaking back.



_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 21
RE: AMCs - 2/16/2013 1:36:36 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8321
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


There are AI commerce raiding scripts that get called sometimes. I've seen AMCs raiding at least as far as Canton Island in the first three months of the war. They can deal with most escorts the USN has at that time.


Two AMCs, Aikoku Maru and the Hokoku Maru I think, start the war SSE of Canton Island, so it's actually hard to not have them raid even if you're trying to get them back to safe territory. I've twice had mine sunk by CVs while sneaking back.




I was playing the Good Guys.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> AMCs Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.086