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Tank Bonus Move

 
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Tank Bonus Move - 2/13/2013 12:32:20 AM   
commanderchrisp

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/28/2010
Status: offline 		Why can't the tank move into the front-right hex, but it can move over the wall to the front and front-left hex?





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RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/13/2013 4:55:12 AM   
VR_IronFist


Posts: 153
Joined: 8/14/2011
Status: offline 		Without mousing over it to be sure, was the front-right hex an elevation change? If so, that would require APs.

(in reply to commanderchrisp)
Post #: 2
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/13/2013 4:58:35 AM   
carnifex


Posts: 1289
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		Walls are not mentioned in the bonus move rules. The only restrictions are must move into clear terrain and there must not be an elevation change.

I can't see clearly on the screenshot you provided - is the prohibited hex at a different elevation than the hex occupied by the tank or is it not clear terrain?

< Message edited by carnifex -- 2/13/2013 4:59:21 AM >

(in reply to commanderchrisp)
Post #: 3
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/13/2013 7:19:54 PM   
commanderchrisp

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/28/2010
Status: offline 		The forbidden Hex is Clear Terrain and no elevation change. Hex H11 on Map 4 from KV2 Firefight.

Even elevation change can be done with Bonus Move if you have the enough APs:




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(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 4
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/13/2013 7:57:12 PM   
fentum

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		as far as I know, APs have nothing to do with bonus moves.

It' s difficult to see on that screen shot, but I reckon there must be an elevation change. THAT would stop a bonus move.

I might be COMPLETELY wrong though.

< Message edited by fentum -- 2/13/2013 7:58:11 PM >

(in reply to commanderchrisp)
Post #: 5
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/14/2013 8:25:54 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1289
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		This might be some kind of bug. I looked at the input map for the KV2 scenario and it's all clear flat terrain around that area:



There should be no reason this is happening.

I was able to recreate the bonus move problem in other hexes around that area:





Not sure why these hexes are not available for bonus movement.

< Message edited by carnifex -- 2/14/2013 8:26:14 PM >

(in reply to fentum)
Post #: 6
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 4:30:37 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2135
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		I see this problem all the time. It's one of the reasons I can't stand playing this PC adaptation and use Zuntzu or Vassal instead. When a new patch comes out I give it a whirl and discover that LOS and movement is still fubar. I know the game rules very well, so this is not a case of rules ignorance. Look for my name in the board games credits. See ATB second edition, and Price of Honor rulebooks.

I simply can't play this online when I can't plan properly. I activate a unit knowing full well I should be able to move to expected hex and discover the PC version prevents it. It's that damn 3D terrain they decided to use. They should have never went that route. Plain old 2D copies of the board game maps were always the better choice. Sadly, when we play now using the patched in 2D maps, the underlying 3D engine is still there, so you get LOS and movement based not on what you see on the 2D maps, but instead on the 3D maps which I would never use. Best thing for them to do for SoS when they make it, would be to strip out that stupid 3D engine and just go with the 2D maps and rewrite the code for LOS and movement to match 2D map use. IMO the game would go from a 5 out of 10 to perhaps an 8 after such a change.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 7
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 4:53:50 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2135
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		You want to see really messed up movement that doesn't play properly at all? Try FF KV2. Run a tank down the road to the fenced in area. Take note of the funky costs to move when you either go over the fence or you choose to go through the opening via the road passing though. The game engine gets everything wrong here. If I recall you don't get bonus road moves when you pass through the opening, but you should. You however do get bonus moves when you go over the fence itself, which you shouldn't. The fence effects appeared to take effect in the wrong hexes. I could go on and make tons of screen shots showing the errors, but I'll be wasting my time. The game engine is what it is, and I doubt they will spend the dev time to rewrite much of it. Way back in beta, I pointed out all the LOS and movement rules errors to no effect. Everything you guys are posting now, I already said something about 12-18 months ago. After more than a year, I still see many of the issues I reported are still in the game.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 8
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 4:59:16 PM   
fentum

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		I wonder how many players play ONLY the PC game and not the boardgame. Did they split a potential devotee fan base? I wonder if the potential market for a straight up copy of the boardgame, but with AI, would outsell a jazzy graphics 3D version with differences from the boardgame. That's a genuine query.

I had the PC game for a year or so but didn't like the graphics, so only started to play when the old school maps came out. I could then recreate the board game experience. I prefer Zun Tsu over PC for precisely the reasons you mention, but the PC game is a REALLY GOOD effort and I applaud the Eric/k's





< Message edited by fentum -- 2/16/2013 5:00:45 PM >

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 9
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 6:24:27 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2135
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		Maybe this vid may answer some of your questions. Read the comments to see how impressed we all were. And take note it was just 1 man who whipped it up. He didn't need outside expertise on 3D modeling because he had the common sense to know it wasn't needed. Academy Games had already provided the fantastic artwork. Why reinvent the wheel? Really why? And because he kept it simple, I'm sure it would have been less buggy as well. LOS and movement could have been faithful to the boardgame with minimal programming effort. As you can see in the video it all works. It probably would have cost WCS 1/10th as much to have made it just like the iPad version. The guy who made this schooled the hell out of Matrix and WCS on how this game should have been made to look and play. It's no wonder comparisons between the two are kept hush hush on this forum.

iPad COH video

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to fentum)
Post #: 10
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 6:47:44 PM   
**budd**


Posts: 905
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline 		that is a slick video. I play only the PC version, i thought before i actually played the game that i would prefer the 3d maps and sprites, but i prefer the board maps and chits and was surprised that only the awakening the bear scenarios had the board game maps. I wish the rest of the maps could be board style, high res or not.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 11
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 6:50:57 PM   
fentum

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron

Maybe this vid may answer some of your questions. Read the comments to see how impressed we all were. And take note it was just 1 man who whipped it up. He didn't need outside expertise on 3D modeling because he had the common sense to know it wasn't needed. Academy Games had already provided the fantastic artwork. Why reinvent the wheel? Really why? And because he kept it simple, I'm sure it would have been less buggy as well. LOS and movement could have been faithful to the boardgame with minimal programming effort. As you can see in the video it all works. It probably would have cost WCS 1/10th as much to have made it just like the iPad version. The guy who made this schooled the hell out of Matrix and WCS on how this game should have been made to look and play. It's no wonder comparisons between the two are kept hush hush on this forum.

iPad COH video


Yup. I saw that ipad thing a while back and offered my soul at the time.

I do think that the guys here do a great job though. Itcan't be easy to get a wargame published, and it keeps getting better. More like the boardgame, with all the post release dev work.

< Message edited by fentum -- 2/16/2013 6:51:52 PM >

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 12
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 6:53:41 PM   
fentum

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

that is a slick video. I play only the PC version, i thought before i actually played the game that i would prefer the 3d maps and sprites, but i prefer the board maps and chits and was surprised that only the awakening the bear scenarios had the board game maps. I wish the rest of the maps could be board style, high res or not.



For the sake of balance, is there anyone out there who prefers and uses the 3D stuff?

I'm going to stop hijacking this thread and post a new topic. Sorry.

< Message edited by fentum -- 2/16/2013 7:01:36 PM >

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 13
RE: Tank Bonus Move - 2/16/2013 7:21:21 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2135
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		Ya everything about it shows more polish doesn't it. From the very instant it starts you can see the slick firefight selection process. Then later he demonstrates hex info selection and such. The cards that pop up at time 1:40 are nice, then the hit maker and resulting slide under of the damage chit does so much to put you into the game. Very slick indeed. Here in the PC game we can't even follow who the hell just shot at us, because if it happens off screen the panning takes place after the shot is over. Duh! Then I have to read the text below to backtrack. Doesn't that strike anyone as poor execution? I have no such problems in Battle Academy which arguably is PC's closest comparison for game type.

Watch the video closely and just think about how polished it is for the short amount of time this 1 man operation spent on it. Now think about the 2 years that WCS has had to work on this project. Where is the polish? It seems all dev time is spent trying to hunt down bugs which would not have been a problem had they not tried to shoot for the moon. The fancy 3D terrain, 3D units, and LOS system based on actual map contours is really the reason for all the lost dev time. It has been a black hole. Had they tried to make a faithful adaptation it would be polished today. It would have people playing it in MP. It would have sold a lot more. And it would have cost a fraction to make.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 14
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