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Caspian Crusade

 
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Caspian Crusade - 2/10/2013 11:27:41 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		M60A3TTS and I have agreed to the rules of engagement. I will be Axis.
It will be a week or so before I do T1 as my Axis play is very rusty since I haven't played Axis since June 2012.
Note: I would be very happy to play Soviet under the very same conditions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alt 41CG scenario
Server game
Locked HQ Support
Non Random Weather
Full FOW

House Rules

No Para drops to break pockets at anytime in the game. No Para missions at all by the Soviets until the first Blizzard.
No bombing of air bases more than 3 times a turn (after turn 1).
No bombing of HQ's unless stacked with a ground unit.

Additional Auto VC (in place to prevent ludicrous runaways)
If the Axis player holds Leningrad, Moscow, Voronezh and Rostov concurrently at the end of 1941 he wins an Auto Victory.
If the Soviet player holds Pskov, Smolensk, Bryansk, Kharkov and Stalino concurrently at anytime in 1942 he wins an Auto Victory.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

< Message edited by Michael T -- 3/13/2013 3:57:37 AM >

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RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/10/2013 11:47:36 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Those auto victory rules are not even close to being even.

Add Kiev and Minsk.

< Message edited by Ketza -- 2/10/2013 11:48:29 PM >

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 2
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/11/2013 1:48:34 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Those auto victory rules are not even close to being even.

Add Kiev and Minsk.


He has not played in a long long while. Katza.

In this game GHC lost all those city's, but is winning game out right and about to take Moscow in 43. One of only 2 GHC players to get a game into 1943 post .13. Thats posted on forums atleast.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3173669&mpage=23

Good luck MT, if you make it to 43 you will be the 3rd GHC player to make it into 43.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/11/2013 1:54:08 AM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 3
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/11/2013 2:46:49 AM   
TulliusDetritus

 

Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline 		Good luck and hunt!

And above all, HAVE FUN, that's the important thing after all

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"Block is very important. If you think block is useless now it's ok. If you don't like block, why don't you take it with your face...?" -- Kung Fu master

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 4
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/11/2013 8:26:20 AM   
juret

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 10/17/2011
Status: offline 		subscribed. GL to axis

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 5
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/18/2013 8:00:42 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		End Axis T3 (3rd July 1941)

My first two turns were very rusty and M60 managed to easily break the Lvov pocket. Things went better in the north for me and I was able to get in to position for a T3 strike towards Smolensk.

On T1 the Soviets ran in the centre and held firm in the south. On my T2 I managed to encircle around 6 or 7 Div’s just to the south west of Vinnista (see Red zone on map) and secure the Lvov pocket.

On M60’s T2 he ran in the south and in the centre held a line from Vitebsk to Mogilev and down the Dniepr.

In my T3 all I could do was pursue in the South and lock down some factories. In the centre things went fairly well for me and I was able to encircle a sizable group of Soviets around Vitebsk. The pocket is pretty tight and he will have to commit quite a few units to break it if he so chooses. In the north mech units have penetrated to the south east of Pskov.

I have shaken off most of the rust now. I have made some errors here and there but nothing disastrous. The biggest mistake was a poor Lvov pocket. But since he is running in the south anyways it’s not that big a problem.

Curious now how he handles the pocket around Vitebsk.

I don’t really think Axis auto victories in 1941 are possible anymore unless the Soviets make a series of big booboo’s. I don’t expect that from M60. So my aim is for a solid 1941 and then go for broke in 1942, with perhaps a visit to the Caspian. We shall see.





Attachment (1)

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'Deus le Volt!'
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(in reply to juret)
Post #: 6
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/18/2013 11:07:37 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Nice job in the center,thats a good sized disaster for M60.

He always seems to have weak spots in his lines. If you recon they can be found. Hes not very good at check boarding.

You started out a little slow for you, but thats a very good pocket in center. That will probably give you Leningrad as he now has to move allot in front of Moscow.

Why does he have so much in the south? A classic of what not to do as SHC.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/18/2013 11:08:23 AM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 7
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/21/2013 6:14:10 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		A quick update at end of Axis T4. The Vitebsk pocket held. Its more substantial than first thought. Must be around 18 XX in there, we lock it down and move on. AGC Panzers pushed on towards Vyazma crossing the Dniepr just to the west of it and created another small pocket (4 or 5 XX) just to the north of Smolensk. In the north he has pulled back to the Luga line. In the south we can’t see the Russian’s for dust.

Full update and map at end T5.


_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 8
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/21/2013 3:10:00 PM   
Balou


Posts: 415
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline 		You agree with Pelton you're in a position "that gives you Leningrad" - the more since AGC gets assistance from 4PzA ? One should'nt believe all that's been said in the forums - OTOH I don't wanna miss fabulous strategies.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 9
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/21/2013 3:31:41 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		Trying to defend the landbridge in force is a mistake, imo. You need too many forces to do it right that are more urgently required elsewhere, namely Leningrad. M60 put in just enough to make a bag possible but not stop the Axis.

The first real MLR in the center starts all the way back along Vyazma-Bryansk.

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Post #: 10
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/21/2013 9:23:09 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		I always try to leave 4th Pz Gp in a position at end T2 where they can either head north or south east to help AGC depending on what opportunities arise. In this case M60 left a weakness on the northern shoulder of his Vitebsk - Dneipr line. So Mansteins corp went south east. The returns were worth the diversion.

This should ensure at least one of Moscow or Leningrad falling now. A lot depends on what M60 does. He can still save both but this would require him to give up the south. But from what I am seeing he seems to be trying to control what is happening in the south with a steady fall back with a large commitment of units. Or rather he has not stripped the south as much as usual.


_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 11
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 12:27:56 AM   
Ketza


Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Its amazing you were able to blow a hole north of Vitebsk like that. I usually lock that area down pretty tight with paratroops in swamps. Nicely done.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 12
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 1:49:05 AM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 522
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Trying to defend the landbridge in force is a mistake, imo. You need too many forces to do it right that are more urgently required elsewhere, namely Leningrad. M60 put in just enough to make a bag possible but not stop the Axis.

The first real MLR in the center starts all the way back along Vyazma-Bryansk.


I fully agree, and am surprised people even still try to do this. Once any infantry gets there (or even before) that entire area is complete pocket bait.

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5q8iMgkg9c&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD1013999DE2B66AD



(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 13
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 2:52:01 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Trying to defend the landbridge in force is a mistake, imo. You need too many forces to do it right that are more urgently required elsewhere, namely Leningrad. M60 put in just enough to make a bag possible but not stop the Axis.

The first real MLR in the center starts all the way back along Vyazma-Bryansk.


I fully agree, and am surprised people even still try to do this. Once any infantry gets there (or even before) that entire area is complete pocket bait.


I fully disagree and I think Katza has first hand exp vs the wall at land bridge. I think the land bridge can be held, BUT you have to strip south other then the classic check board.

Leningrad / Moscow can be held and has been held in allot of games, but takes some exp.

M60 huge mistake is not stripping the south, use Flaviusx strategy of giving up 30ish arm pts and you can hold south with next to nothing.

M60 can easly hold Moscow still if he simply starts digging the standard 70 mile thick fort belt (again allot of units from the south), but Leningrad is lost vs MT. You can't make boneheaded mistakes and not pay for them vs the better players.

GHC can only take what they are given and that was a gift that MT was more then willing to take.


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 14
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 3:27:07 AM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 522
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline
Not arguing that Moscow and Leningrad can be held - have started using the south stripping strategy to good effect. That said I think that the landbridge/Dnepr line is not the best place to pick a spot. Good German players can pick it apart.

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5q8iMgkg9c&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD1013999DE2B66AD



(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 15
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 4:19:01 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		Don't even need the landsers to storm the landbridge if you are MT, either. The trick I guess is to keep the panzers gassed up going into turns 3-4, most Axis players run them out of gas in the center by not hanging back a bit. Knowing that (and I didn't know this until now) I am even less inclined to make a stand there than before.

Also, I wouldn't strip the south to reinforce the landbridge. I'd send them to Leningrad, if anything.









< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 2/22/2013 4:20:14 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 4:32:05 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
quote:

The trick I guess is to keep the panzers gassed up going into turns 3-4
Flavius your giving away all my secrets

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(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 17
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 4:55:45 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		Well, I think it can be stymied in part by occupying all that swamp terrain north of Vitebsk. (I consider this part of the extended Leningrad defense proper.) Rather than rush stuff to the center, I plant 2-3 armies of stuff between Pskov and Vitebsk to grab all the rough and swamp terrain in the area, including most of the swamp just west of Velikiye Luki. Doesn't have to be a continuous line, either, not immediately.

The actual landbridge can be managed by pickets.

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Post #: 18
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 12:38:27 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Well, I think it can be stymied in part by occupying all that swamp terrain north of Vitebsk. (I consider this part of the extended Leningrad defense proper.) Rather than rush stuff to the center, I plant 2-3 armies of stuff between Pskov and Vitebsk to grab all the rough and swamp terrain in the area, including most of the swamp just west of Velikiye Luki. Doesn't have to be a continuous line, either, not immediately.

The actual landbridge can be managed by pickets.


Yes I think allot of poeple don't under stand how important the area is between Pskov and VL going into the blizzard for SHC blizzard O, holding area north of Moscow and late 42 offensive.

Your right Flaviusx holding land bridge with pickets is easy way to simply slow down GHC as defence of Moscow starts 70+ miles behind that.


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 19
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 1:19:32 PM   
821Bobo

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		I put always 2 armies in that area and didnt help me. When GHC decide to divert 4. Pz group south they will pocket them. As far as I can remember, both MT and Pelton did it to me.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 20
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 3:43:30 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

I put always 2 armies in that area and didnt help me. When GHC decide to divert 4. Pz group south they will pocket them. As far as I can remember, both MT and Pelton did it to me.


You need to do it in depth, and be prepared to counterattack. Any Axis advance here will necessarily be channeled into more open terrain and be vulnerable to counterstrokes. I've never played against MT, but have played Pelton, and it worked well enough against him. So well, in fact, that he abandoned his drive north of Vitebsk completely. Indeed, MT kind of did the very same thing against Pelton in his recent game, and turned the area into a brick wall. You will need to send more and more stuff up here as time goes on, though.


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RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 4:00:55 PM   
821Bobo

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Sorry but deep defence on turn 3 between Vitebsk and Velikye Luki is not possible.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 22
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/22/2013 4:05:24 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Sorry but deep defence on turn 3 between Vitebsk and Velikye Luki is not possible.


With 36 divisions between three armies, yes it can be done. And you don't wait until turn 3. You go nuts starting on turn 1 and keep on packing stuff into the area.

This is why the landbridge is so weak. Nothing goes there. It's screened by the survivors of West Front and little else. I rush literally all my reserves north.

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Post #: 23
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/25/2013 10:21:28 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		End Axis T5 (17th July 1941) Clear

Generally this turn saw minor gains across the front as we approach the end of the supply leash.

AGN: The Finns surge ahead and cut off 3 divisions. The Panzers crawl forward and the Inf are finally catching up. Should be able to begin the grind towards Leningrad next turn.

AGC. The spearhead continues on its north eastern tilt and another small pocket is formed around Rzhev as we drive toward Kalinin. We may have to consider coming to a halt next turn to await the Inf and build up some supply. One pesky Soviet ID really screwed up our advance just to the south of Rzhev this turn. If not for that unit we would have been in Kalinin. They deserve a citation.

AGS. The Soviets appear to be holding the Dneipr line. So we creep up and prepare for a crossing on T6. I expect that M60 will don the running shoes and retreat another 4-5 hexes east in his turn though. Interesting to see what he does here now. Run or try and hold that line. His track record in the south indicates he will run. Odessa fell this turn quite easily to the 22nd AL Div. Always nice to get that city early. It can be a pain sometimes.

Overall I am pleased with progress. The only real annoyance so far being the failure to get in to Kalinin this turn.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 24
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/25/2013 11:37:39 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Average advance in north and south.

Amazing advance in center, can't really get any better then that. Sure M60 screwed up, but you took advatege of it big time. It will cause him to throw everything but the kitchen sink to save it. Which will cost him Leningrad and south.

You have a possible shot at Moscow if he screws up again, nice job.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 25
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/26/2013 12:13:47 AM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		You didn't make it to Kalinin by turn five.Must try harder.
I'd be surprised if Moscow doesn't fall now.A drive North East also looks tempting.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 26
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/26/2013 3:10:29 AM   
Ketza


Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Wow.

I never would even contemplate that kind of advance in the center.

I must be doing it wrong

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 27
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/26/2013 9:34:12 AM   
smokindave34


Posts: 378
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		Amazing progress in the center - I'm happy when I capture Smolensk on turn 5! M60 has some tough decisions to make.

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 28
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/26/2013 10:04:35 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza


I must be doing it wrong


No M60 is hehehehe

I don't think he learnt anything from our game(Pelton vs M60 AAR). I am kinda surpised really by his poor play.

I expected a much better defence, kinda sad really.

I was hoping MT would have picked someone better at SHC like yourself Katza, Bomazz or Hoooper. Someone undefeated and not average.

This really does not seem to be much of a challance for MT, almost a waste of time really.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/26/2013 10:06:35 AM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 29
RE: Caspian Crusade (no M60A3TTS please) - 2/28/2013 1:39:01 PM   
Balou


Posts: 415
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

End Axis T5 (17th July 1941) Clear

AGC. We may have to consider coming to a halt next turn to await the Inf and build up some supply.


What are your settings for "AC required to fly" ? Even though you may spare some fuel by not using all MPs every turn, I try to figure out the nature of your Pz/Mot Div warp drive.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 30
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