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Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 6:54:51 PM

HowieWowie

Posts: 27
Joined: 12/2/2012
Status: offline

I've been looking at WitP on and off for the last year and a half. I've always pulled back from clicking buy because of the steep learning curve. What keeps impressing me is the amount of activity on the forum. Obviously there is a solid community out there.

So I'm hovering over the buy button again. I've looked at the Tutorial videos but it looks like it'll take a good 15 hours of study before I can start playing. Am I wrong? I play a lot of complicated board war games so complex rules don't bother me. What I want to avoid is having to get burdened with learning how to micromanage in order to play the game effectively.

Its a pricey game so although I'm drawn to it I have this nagging feeling that I'll regret the purchase afterwards. I'm interested in hearing from any new players please.

Post #: 1

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 7:01:39 PM

Terminus

Posts: 39913
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: online

AE requires tons of micromanagement.

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Post #: 2

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 7:20:34 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 2122
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

Just start a small scenario like Coral Sea against the AI, grip it and rip it. It'll cost you nothing and you'll start learning what the right questions are. You will spend many hours reading the forum threads on various how to play topics. You can try an opponent on such a small scenario after you're more comfortable with it, but it'll probably take a year before you want to do a campaign game against a live opponent. Buy the game. Only your wife and your boss will regret it.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 3

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 7:24:55 PM

Gr�fin Zeppelin

Posts: 1096
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: online

It is micromanagment heaven :) Get it.

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Post #: 4

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 8:30:34 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 4950
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

15 hours??? You dream...

Probably to be able to play it decently you'd need at least 100 hours of hard studyin...just to get the basis.

I've probably played more than 1500 turns by now, which means nearly 2000 hours...and i'm still far away from mastering this beauty

But hey, it's the best game ever made. Hands down

(in reply to Gr�fin Zeppelin)

Post #: 5

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 8:50:31 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 348
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Lima and Toronto
Status: offline

Something important to mention... you will start having fun since the start; even if you know very little of the mechanics of the game, you will have a good time just watching the 1st day historical turn.
Pearl Harbour, the initial landinds (Luzon, Malaya) are all fun and you need to do nothing since most of the tasks forces are already setup.

you can then slowly learn, one aspect of the game at a time

EDIT: Notice you are not "forced" to play the full campaing; maybe you can start a "Quiet China" scenario as Japan and setup a goal of conquering Malaya, PH islands and the DEI by the end of March; then you can focus on the tactical aspect, safely ignoring other theatres, production, conversions, convoys, training, etc as these will have little to no relevance for the short term 4 month goal

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 2/10/2013 8:57:47 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 6

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 10:26:22 PM

Capt Hornblower

Posts: 177
Joined: 10/29/2010
Status: online

RE Mr. Stanbury:

I would ignore this suggestion completely. A beginner at WITP:AE should content himself with playing as the Allies for a while to get the hang of most of the mechanics of the game. (I would only consider playing as the Japanese in a short (non-campaign-length) scenario, if I were new to the game.) In Pacific Theater campaigns, the handling of logistics is considerably easier playing the Allies; one should only attempt to play a campaign as the Japanese once one is completely comfortable in the system.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 7

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 10:42:00 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 348
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Lima and Toronto
Status: offline

To Capt Hornblower:

as I said in my post, nothing force you to finish the full campaign assuming you are playing against AI . And aiming for 3 to 6 months of play, there is nothing to worry about the Japanese economy, ignore it completely, you don't need it short term,

Why better Japan than Allies? it is a fun start, you have the advantage in every aspect, you are in the offensive, you have the Kido Buttai, you have a lot of "toys" at your disposal

Up to him to decide

(in reply to Capt Hornblower)

Post #: 8

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 11:00:24 PM

Blind Sniper

Posts: 601
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: online

quote:

I've looked at the Tutorial videos but it looks like it'll take a good 15 hours of study before I can start playing. Am I wrong?

Yes

If you mean just to move the stuff around the map ok, if you mean to know how handle all situations you will need thousand hours.

quote:

What I want to avoid is having to get burdened with learning how to micromanage in order to play the game effectively.

Unfortunately the game requires this approach especially if you want to play Japs.

_____________________________

Advanced Squad Leader (ASL); War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition (WitP-AE)

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 9

RE: Before I Buy - 2/10/2013 11:31:29 PM

n01487477

Posts: 4551
Joined: 2/21/2006
From: AE:96,160 @ 103,55
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

quote:

I've looked at the Tutorial videos but it looks like it'll take a good 15 hours of study before I can start playing. Am I wrong?

Yes
If you mean just to move the stuff around the map ok, if you mean to know how handle all situations you will need thousand hours.

+1 Actually, you can start playing the game within a couple of clicks, especially but not exclusively in one of the small scenarios. Moving things around is a little different from playing well though. It really isn't all that scary, especially with the myriad of newbies that come and usually stay because we try to be helpful on these forums.

quote:

quote:

What I want to avoid is having to get burdened with learning how to micromanage in order to play the game effectively.

Unfortunately the game requires this approach especially if you want to play Japs.

In the short scenarios - this is not the case. And even in the full blown campaign - once you have made a few turns and some hours of initial setup, you can mostly leave it with small adjustments as you go. Depending on how good you set it up initially. (see Kulls thread, read my econ101 doc, Mike Solli's AAR, look at posts from Alfred, Pax Mondo, Seille, witpqs, nygiants59, obvert; just to name a few of the hundred's of other guys that took the time to learn it). Its not rocket science after all ;-)

When I initially bought witp (which was less involved), I dove straight into the campaign as the Japanese and learned the system pretty quickly. I try to learn from my mistakes; I redid situations by replaying turns until I knew what I was doing. I didn't sit back and say "well done" when I had won a victory. I thought how I could do them better next time round. It just takes an inquiring mind, the forum, the manual and a passion for this.

Don't get me wrong; yes you can start playing within minutes. Playing well might take a considerable time investment, but that is the beauty of this game. The layers just keep peeling back to reveal more insight and beauty in its design and game-play. I know I'm still learning and that keeps we within its grip...

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes

(in reply to Blind Sniper)

Post #: 10

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 12:59:29 AM

OldGuard1970

Posts: 543
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: Hiawassee, GA
Status: offline

I also dove right into the campaign... (as the Allies). I concur that the game was fun from the start. I have been enjoying it for years, and I know I will never master it. If you like "giant games", this one is for you. If you are interested in the Pacific theater, then grab it.

You are quite right about the forum. I find lots of good advice on the forum, and many of the "forumites" have responded usefully to my mystified posts.

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Post #: 11

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 1:10:57 AM

Capt Hornblower

Posts: 177
Joined: 10/29/2010
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

...Its not rocket science after all...

For a GAME, it's pretty friggin' close!

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 12

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 1:27:59 AM

alanschu

Posts: 213
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline

I started with the first WITP, but after doing one of the smaller campaigns, I jumped right into the Allied campaign and it effectively took me several in game months before I was somewhat competent. Which I thought was appropriate as it kind of mirrored the Allies being brutal to start the war! :P

(in reply to Capt Hornblower)

Post #: 13

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 2:26:22 AM

n01487477

Posts: 4551
Joined: 2/21/2006
From: AE:96,160 @ 103,55
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

...Its not rocket science after all...

For a GAME, it's pretty friggin' close!

That'd be Aurora and hopefully Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes

(in reply to Capt Hornblower)

Post #: 14

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 2:55:50 AM

netjam99

Posts: 56
Joined: 7/18/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

I started with the first WITP, but after doing one of the smaller campaigns, I jumped right into the Allied campaign and it effectively took me several in game months before I was somewhat competent. Which I thought was appropriate as it kind of mirrored the Allies being brutal to start the war! :P

I also did the same thing. Played the Coral Sea, then that little Brit campaign in the Indian Ocean. But then jumped right in the main campaign as the Allies. I admit it took me like a whole day to do a turn at first. I almost gave up, but kept reading AARs and stuff here in forum, not to mention the manual then things clicked well enough for it to start being fun. Right now I can get through a turn in an hour, but some times I just surf the map. Look at units, make plans, check on pilots, etc! Kinda of relaxing.

In a month where I mainly just played just on weekends I have gotten the Allied campaign to Feb 28th. (Did seven game turns today!) During the week often while travelling for buisness I read what ever I can get on the Pacific Theatre. I just finished Ship of Ghosts (USS Houston). Tons of great stuff out there like that book really bring the units on your map alive.

Anyway this game for me passes the coffee test. I wake up early in the morning on a free weekend, geeked out over getting the game on and knocking back some joe! Not sure if it will be your thing. But if a war game fan and if you are interested in history WITP AE might just be what you are looking for. Good luck!

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Post #: 15

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 7:55:42 AM

Treetop64

Posts: 722
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: 519 Redwood City, CA - BASE (Hex 218, 70)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

AE requires tons of micromanagement.

...but it's the good kind of micromanagement. It's the sort of details that, once you spend enough time with the game, you want to delve into and get involved with. The depth of this game is such that even after years of playing, you still learn new things and new ways of playing.

Buy the game. It'll be a lot to take in at first, sure, but give yourself time.

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(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 16

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 8:55:31 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 5493
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Malta
Status: online

WitP and AE made me spend huge amount of money for good history books about Pacific War.

Don't be surprised if you are ordering "Fire in the Sky" and "Shattered Sword" very soon, when playing this game (if not already having them).

WitP and AE really made me interested about Pacific War, strategy and tactics. Even got couple of serious strategic studies by H.P. Willmott. (Barrier and Javelin, Empires in Balance)

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 2/11/2013 8:58:46 AM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 10:55:03 AM

Blind Sniper

Posts: 601
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477
That'd be Aurora and hopefully Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager

Played a bit Aurora, fantastic but very few time for this game.
You forget Tigers Unleashed

_____________________________

Advanced Squad Leader (ASL); War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition (WitP-AE)

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 18

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 7:59:11 PM

rroberson

Posts: 1906
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

There is no greater feeling then moving all the pieces in place for weeks...

...only to watch your carriers burn as you did not account for the fact that the guy on the other end of the interweb was doing the same thing.

Don't hesitate...buy...this game does not require tons of time to run a turn if you are organized and the fun you will have.

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Post #: 19

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 9:33:18 PM

jeffk3510

Posts: 3379
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

AE requires tons of micromanagement.

...but it's the good kind of micromanagement. It's the sort of details that, once you spend enough time with the game, you want to delve into and get involved with. The depth of this game is such that even after years of playing, you still learn new things and new ways of playing.

Buy the game. It'll be a lot to take in at first, sure, but give yourself time.

Agreed. Once you get into the swing of things, it really doesn't take that long to crank out a turn. Doing all of the micromanagement lets you train pilots to your game play style, use ships to your style.. etc etc..

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Post #: 20

RE: Before I Buy - 2/11/2013 9:54:20 PM

Dixie

Posts: 9531
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

AE requires tons of micromanagement.

...but it's the good kind of micromanagement. It's the sort of details that, once you spend enough time with the game, you want to delve into and get involved with. The depth of this game is such that even after years of playing, you still learn new things and new ways of playing.

Buy the game. It'll be a lot to take in at first, sure, but give yourself time.

Agreed. Once you get into the swing of things, it really doesn't take that long to crank out a turn. Doing all of the micromanagement lets you train pilots to your game play style, use ships to your style.. etc etc..

The first turn usually takes me an hour or two, depending on how much I tweak things. After that the usual turn in an AI game is about 10 minutes, it'll be more in a PBEM but not excessive. Every week or two I'll do some 'housekeeping' and go over the whole map to reassign pilots and so on. Other than that it's a case of keeping things ticking over and reacting to what the other guy throws at me.

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