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Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat?

 
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Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 2/9/2013 1:28:57 AM   
bretg80

 

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Wouldn't it be interesting to try Midway or the Marianas campaign in this simulator?
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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 2/9/2013 8:10:44 AM   
fab94

 

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i think no because database cover 1949 to 2020

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 2/9/2013 11:56:14 AM   
Sunburn


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Yes and no.

Yes: Because in comparison with other games in this category (e.g. Harpoon) Command offers better modelling of older systems like unguided torpedoes, depth charges, _much_ better modelling of the factors affecting guns and other unguided weapons, better warhead/armor/damage modelling, improved blast models, better tactical AI (incl. things like OODA cycles) etc. etc. Weather also has a much bigger effect .

No: Because in comparison with other titles more targeted on this era and scale (e.g. WitP, CaW or TF1942) Command lacks the strategic-level elements (e.g. industrial production, political directions and contraints etc.) that are useful for modelling such conflicts. Certain technological (e.g. subs without snorkels, effects of plunging fire, significant comms delays etc.) and AI (e.g. deliberately crossing the T) elements that heavily influence tactical combat are also absent since these became much less critical/prevalent post-war. Furthermore, lots of early platforms are not currently included since our DB focus is on units that survived WW2 and saw service also post-war. (The latter can of course be remedied if you cooperate with the DB authors and provide all the information needed to faithfully model early platforms).

Considering that despite its WW2-relevant limitations Harpoon has already seen WW2 scenarios and databases with some success, it is reasonable to state that one can create WW2-themed tactical/operational scenarios in Command with good results, provided that the weaknesses and limitations of the game for this era are recognised and worked around or avoided.

TL;DR version: The "modern" word is in the title for a reason

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 2/9/2013 12:41:31 PM >


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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 2/21/2013 9:00:41 AM   
CSO_Talorgan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Certain technological (e.g. subs without snorkels, effects of plunging fire, significant comms delays etc.) and AI (e.g. deliberately crossing the T) elements that heavily influence tactical combat are also absent since these became much less critical/prevalent post-war.


I read somewhere that modern games don't take the arcs of the guns into account because they don't matter nowadays whereas they did in the middle of the 20th Century.

Does "Command" cater for simple contact mines?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Considering that despite its WW2-relevant limitations Harpoon has already seen WW2 scenarios and databases with some success


You wouldn't have a link to these, would you? I've read of Harpoon being used so, but have never been able to find details.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 2/21/2013 5:55:55 PM   
Sunburn


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quote:


Does "Command" cater for simple contact mines?

Yes.
quote:


You wouldn't have a link to these, would you? I've read of Harpoon being used so, but have never been able to find details.

Here: http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=7.


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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 2/22/2013 2:06:41 PM   
TonyE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CSO_Talorgan
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Considering that despite its WW2-relevant limitations Harpoon has already seen WW2 scenarios and databases with some success


You wouldn't have a link to these, would you? I've read of Harpoon being used so, but have never been able to find details.

If you are a Harpoon Classic player, go to http://harpgamer.com , in the search box enter HCWW and select Downloads as the xection to search (click where it says Forums to the left of the magnifying glass). Sunburn nails the limitations of Harpoon for WWII efforts.


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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 3/30/2013 7:53:32 PM   
czert2

 

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it is planed to in later patches or even expansion to improve/implement modeling of wwii (or even wwi) warfare ?

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 3/31/2013 9:13:14 AM   
Sunburn


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There are a number of thoughts, but first we'd need to identify a solid market demand for such a move (and justify stepping into a sub-niche already served well by other titles).

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 6/20/2013 3:00:26 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


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Thanks for your replies.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 7/20/2013 6:36:06 PM   
Sakai007


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Granted this sub-niche is well served by other games, but the same could be said of the whole naval war sim niche being served well by Harpoon. I am a firm believer that Command will be to the next decade what Harpoon was to the last, being the game that serves this niche so well that resistance is futile. With this engine I think you guys could make an amazing WWII naval wargame. Granted, I would never expect you folks to divert energy and time away from Command until it has been firmly entrenched in the naval wargaming community, but some time down the line I do hope you take a look at building a WWII version.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 12:06:46 AM   
Fred Sanford

 

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+1 on modeling WW2 with this engine. After all, it WAS the biggest naval/air clash since ever.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn
No: Because in comparison with other titles more targeted on this era and scale (e.g. WitP, CaW or TF1942) Command lacks the strategic-level elements (e.g. industrial production, political directions and contraints etc.) that are useful for modelling such conflicts.


If the focus remains on the tactical/operational, then this becomes less important. Campaigns could always be handled on a linked-scenario basis.

quote:

Certain technological (e.g. subs without snorkels, effects of plunging fire, significant comms delays etc.) and AI (e.g. deliberately crossing the T) elements that heavily influence tactical combat are also absent since these became much less critical/prevalent post-war.


This is probably the hardest development task. So I hope you make lots of money and start 'stretching out'.

quote:

Furthermore, lots of early platforms are not currently included since our DB focus is on units that survived WW2 and saw service also post-war. (The latter can of course be remedied if you cooperate with the DB authors and provide all the information needed to faithfully model early platforms).


Luckily, there's tons of resources and I'm sure volunteers that would be available to develop a WW2 DB.


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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 1:11:49 AM   
JimMerson


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Did I just hear "Jutland"?


quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2

it is planed to in later patches or even expansion to improve/implement modeling of wwii (or even wwi) warfare ?


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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 1:24:07 AM   
mikmyk


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I was at the Civil War table but somebody brought up Monitors at Historicon...just sayin

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 10:14:44 AM   
Hexagon

 

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If we talk about BIG naval battles maybe we need talk more about age of sail or even early i think in Lepanto battle for example.


212 ships[2]

28,500 soldiers[5]
40,000 sailors and oarsmen[2]
1,815 guns[citation needed]

251 ships

31,490 soldiers
50,000 sailors and oarsmen
741 guns (est.)[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 10:16:23 AM   
Sunburn


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I'll ask Rag how we can model triremes and ramming.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 10:54:12 AM   
Hexagon

 

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For a test purpouse age of sail is other option hehehe but a game covering WW2 is more interesting... after finish the modern version with tons of scens, is great see scens upload BEFORE the game release

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 3:34:33 PM   
thewood1

 

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I didn't see an answer to the question about gun training...do gun weapons have arcs or is it like Harpoon where it doesn't matter where they are mounted.

btw, I saw in the wargamer interview that a 1950 Korean War scenario is included...that is pretty darn close to WW2.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/23/2013 3:36:57 PM >

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 3:43:25 PM   
Sunburn


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They have arcs and they are taken into account for engagements up to 10nm. Beyond that range arcs are ignored.

Thanks!

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 9/23/2013 3:44:03 PM >


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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 3:45:25 PM   
thewood1

 

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I am not buying it! I already have a scenario in mind where I need guns at 10.001nm.

Just kidding, great job.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 4:16:22 PM   
Kipper


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How about trireme warfare? Don't tell me u have left that out too. NO SALE!

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 6:55:51 PM   
Sunburn


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Well we had a little problem with modelling fuel replenishment for the oarers. I suggested energy drinks but Rag reminded me there were none available in 480 BC. We're still looking into that.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 7:38:11 PM   
Blighty56

 

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A ww2 version would be great perhaps someone could mod it or a dlc could be created.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 7:39:20 PM   
Fred Sanford

 

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I know you said plunging fire wasn't considered, but are armor schemes and hit location modeled? Or is that handled in some other way. So far as gun arcs mattering up to 10 nm, I'm guessing that's a fairly arbitrary limit that could be changed if need be.

FTR, no matter the answer these questions, I'm a first day buyer, triremes or not.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 10:25:48 PM   
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Ok, there are fine simulations about the pacific, but what about the mediterranean? I found not even one software to simulate it properly (I mean combined operations, not just ships), and THIS could be the one... Id really like to explore the concecuences of using properly the Reggia Aeronautica, or italian ships with radar, or the germans giving a proper support to naval operations there. Needles to say, this was a theatre that could have change the course of the war, so there is still a missing space concerning sofwares to represent it.

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RE: Can you simulate WW2 Pacific naval/air combat? - 9/23/2013 10:35:04 PM   
Fred Sanford

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01

Ok, there are fine simulations about the pacific, but what about the mediterranean? I found not even one software to simulate it properly (I mean combined operations, not just ships), and THIS could be the one... Id really like to explore the concecuences of using properly the Reggia Aeronautica, or italian ships with radar, or the germans giving a proper support to naval operations there. Needles to say, this was a theatre that could have change the course of the war, so there is still a missing space concerning sofwares to represent it.


They should team up with the Command Ops folks who just released at Battles for Greece expansion. I'd love to play a Land-Sea-Air Greece/Crete/North Africa/Malta/Dodecanese/Torch/Sicily/Italy historically accurate RTS. Ok, maybe that should be split into scenarios.

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