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About to Purchase.. which one?

 
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About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/8/2013 6:52:47 PM   
lparkh


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Hi,
I am about to purchase my first "Scourge." :-) I am interested especially in the command and control aspects. My concern is to make sure I try the Scourge game that has the most up to date engine/interface/design. That being said if they are all equal in engine/interface etc than I would prefer Gettysburg to start with. But if there is a quality difference then I will pick what is suggested.
Please advise.
Thank you,
Lin
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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/8/2013 10:22:02 PM   
Hurrying Heinz

 

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only 2 choices , gettysberg or chancellorville , the others are map packs for the original gettysberg. if i was you id go with gb, just make sure u patch to latest version. fantastic franchise and u wont be dissappointed. combat mission for the civil war !

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/8/2013 10:23:03 PM   
MarchingThruGeorgia


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As you are just starting out, I would suggest that you buy Gettysburg first. The landscape is much more open and it is easier to see what your troops are doing. Chancellorsville maps are heavily wooded and are probably best enjoyed once you are comfortable with the mechanics of the game.

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Secession is futile.

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/8/2013 11:16:39 PM   
VPaulus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hurrying Heinz

if i was you id go with gb, just make sure u patch to latest version.

No need to patch. Matrix version is already pre patched with 1.5 version.

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/11/2013 11:34:31 PM   
lparkh


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Joined: 7/25/2004
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Thanks for taking time to reply. I got Gettysburg. I enjoyed doing a Brigade level action at Grognard level (running around on my horse etc). However when tried a Divisional scenario (normal difficulty) and tried to just to act like a Division commander and give orders only one level down I have to say I was a bit disappointed by the AI. My reports couldn't seem to assemble there units. There units would instead get distracted by local enemies etc. So it seemed micromanagement two levels down was required to make anything coordinated happen..

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/11/2013 11:55:38 PM   
lparkh


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Reading an earlier thread I see that I am experiencing the "Congo Line" phenomenon. My problem now is that if I can't operate effectively with the limited AI of the subordinate units (and I understand doing the AI is very hard) then it seems like the differential from a Total War game (after mods) becomes much more limited. And the interface in the TW games is easier. Still I have probably not given this game enough time.

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/12/2013 3:09:48 AM   
MarchingThruGeorgia


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No, it definitely is not TW. The AI was designed to elicit human responses. It does not slavishly follow your orders. Rather it tries to act like a human commander. It may misinterpret them, react slowly, or act rashly sometimes. The AI commander's personality traits are listed on the OOB screen. Less experienced commanders do a poorer job. Aggressive ones will always attack if left to their own. Cautious ones will rarely do so. To help control how they react, you must give them a stance, (i.e. hold, defend, attack, etc.). It is important to review these traits before the battle starts and based on those decide the best way to utilize their abilities. In your case you have 2 very aggressive commanders, one balanced and one cautious. They will react very differently to the same situation.

The conga line problem is largely due to the fact that there are too many regiments in too small a space. They get in each others way. Brigades take up a lot of room, so they require a lot of room to maneuver. Players tend to bunch them up, thinking that many regiments in a small space equals a powerful force. The opposite is actually true. The brigades lose their cohesion in this situation and constantly try to maneuver to find enough space to properly deploy, (the conga line effect). In doing so, they tire themselves out and spend little time shooting. Give the brigades the room they need and you will reduce the effect dramatically. This phenomena is to a large extent a sign of player mismanagement.

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/12/2013 8:33:57 PM   
Hurrying Heinz

 

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a couple of quick observations

the tc button is your freind , when to use it is a key imo.

there are some great toolbar mods which will give extra command options ( when you're ready )

a level of micro-management is , in my opinion , required .

sounds like youve opted for a real tough play style , not too sure you're giving yourself a fair go " in the saddle"

practise , practise , practise.

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/13/2013 5:26:14 PM   
lparkh


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Thank you for your thoughts Marching through Georgia. I would only note that I simply game a command to the commander and an objective. I also indicated to go into line. I did not tell the commander where to put the subunits. But then as you say the different AI personalities perhaps created issues. But I didn't interfere with their spacing.
Thanks Hurrying Heinz for your pointers.

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/13/2013 5:57:32 PM   
MarchingThruGeorgia


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As division commander, it is the spacing between the brigades that needs to be considered. An aggressive brigade commander will prefer to deploy his regiments into a single line and bring his full brigade down on the enemy. He may occasionally leave one regiment in reserve, but not always. If you stretch out a brigade in this manner you will see it occupies a lot of real estate. So if you order a 2nd brigade to advance, You will have to allow enough space for it to also deploy in this manner. Add another regiment or two of spacing for maneuvering purposes. Using point and click from the saddle or even the command map makes this difficult without much practice. I've been playing from the saddle for years and I still screw this up regularly. It won't matter that you have ordered them to advance and then deploy in a double line formation. Once the enemy is near, the AI commander will begin to move his regiments and fight them as he thinks best.

A cautious commander will tend to initially deploy 2 or 3 regiments into a fight, leaving the others as a reserve. He in less Conan the Barbarian and more of a chess player. However, you still need to afford him the same space as the aggressive commander, as he will use those reserve regiments on his flanks eventually.

Division command is a challenge. I'd suggest you use the Historic difficulty level. The Grognard level gives the AI opponent 20 or 30% more troops and makes the AI much more aggressive. The game is hard enough to learn without giving the AI those kind of advantages. Historic level makes everyone equal.

_____________________________

Secession is futile.

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/14/2013 11:21:50 PM   
lparkh


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OK that makes more sense. I was doing the Ridge scenario on the first day (I am Heth.. blanking on my reports' names). I assumed there was enough distance between my two reports (separated by the road). I assumed they weren't cramping each other's style, especially since I sent one away toward the objective and the other was staying to fight. The one I was trying to send away was the one flipping out but again maybe it is the spacing ACROSS my reports I am now considering enough.
Thanks for your time!

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/16/2013 6:36:56 PM   
dougb

 

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Davis and Archer are your reports in the Ridge scenario.

I've been having a much better time playing since using the time tip for hits mode (so that the orders are carried out). I getting decisive defeats but my last game I had a better handle on my two brigades and managed to overrun the farm at the top of the hill. For some reason though brockenborough and Pettigrew's brigades haven't shown up virtually every time I've played that scenario. I've taken heavy casualties and Archer consistently gets himself killed or captured. I'm using the classic map as I'd like to try the hits mode as true to realistic as possible.

Definitely a game that requires an investment of time to get to grips - but nothing else like it.

Doug

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RE: About to Purchase.. which one? - 2/17/2013 12:44:08 AM   
dougb

 

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One thing is that it is really difficult to figure out where the various parts of the brigade are at the start of the scenario. I'd like to see that starting postions marked out at the beginning or some idea of where the brigades are coming in from. I think the division commander would usually have a pretty good idea of where the various parts of the division were at the start (most of the time). Note that this is playing on the level below grognard as I know that the positions are on the map at lower skill levels.

Doug

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