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Game is unplayable

 
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Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 1:18:59 AM   
Mark Clark

 

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I want to like it. There are many things to like. It's better than a lot of games.

But it is still unplayable. Just fundamentally broken.

I've covered most of the issues in other threads.

Biggest problem: it's a corps level game that sticks you will all these risibly useless divisions. Divisions are a joke. They can do nothing but die. They should not be in this game.

The scenarios are way out of balance. I get CRUSHED every time as the allies in 1944????? The Americans in Italy are half divisions, which you can't use. First contact with the enemy = death.

The Russians cannot do anything.

The Brits are broke, which I suppose is historically correct, but so correct that they can't mount an offensive anywhere? The real Brits actually did things.

Is the answer that this is a "German" game so I need to play Axis?

That would not solve the ridicuoulsly "abstract" (really, non-existent) naval game.

I could not warm to Hearts of Iron, I hate the phony "real time" aspect of it.

CEAW is OK, but the AI is super stupid and the mod makes it dumber.

This has far better mechanics that either but I still have not been able to play a single game through. I've wasted a lot of time on it because I like the map and the mechanics but I have to admit defeat. This game is broken. It's not fun and it doesn't play.

Nice try. I will check in from time to time to see if you ever get it right.
Post #: 1
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 1:38:23 AM   
rmonical

 

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As I mentioned on the other thread - the scenarios have not been updated for the 1.04 engine. So if you are using that, then expect there to be issues. Most of the issues that you have mentioned are scenario issues that can be addressed in the scenario configuration files. With all of the changes to 1.04, it will probably take a while to get balanced scenarios again. I suspect that balanced human verses AI scenarios are particularly difficult.

For example, I am doing 1.04 with the major powers as human and the Soviets are building a lot of everything - I'll compare with the Barbarossa OOB when I get there, but I suspect the Soviets will have a much larger army.

If at any point I do not like the "state" of the game, I can edit more appropriate values into the turn configuration files. I understand this is not possible for PBEM which makes doing a campaign game a risky proposition.

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Post #: 2
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 2:01:00 AM   
gwgardner

 

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It's not unplayable. I've been playing it since it came out.

See my AARs.

If you find a particularly unbalanced aspect, or something that doesn't make sense to you, it's easily moddable. Example, if you think amphibious transports are too expensive, go into the data file and lower the cost of them. It doesn't have to be arbitrary. Look at the historical costs and try to translate that into the game. If costs are about right, but the UK can't buy any, then production is out of kilter. Fix it easily with a mod also, or use F12.

The designers I believe did a good job with OOB for the scenarios, but there has never been enough time to thoroughly test for balance. So you're left with the choice: stop playing the unbalanced game, or balance it yourself. Wastelands is a small shop, I don't think they're going to do the balancing at this point. fortunately there are many ways to do the balancing yourself.

I'm going to start a Gotterdamerung solo as Allies and see if it's as badly balanced as you're saying.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 2/7/2013 2:03:31 AM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 5:12:58 AM   
buchand


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I think the central concept of the game is excellent but, for me, the balance isn't right. I am therefore going to try modding some of the factors in a game for the first time
Its not a naval game so seems pointless putting a lot of time into 'fixing' that aspect.
Divisions are garrison troops so research and upgrades are essential - seems reasonable, more PPs = better TOE and ability to upgrade.
Balance depends on ability to an extent, I don't have much therefore the desire to mod some of the data.

A large scale playable War in the West has been a bit of a Holy Grail for years and TOF is as close as I have seen so I'm willing to stick with it.


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RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 10:09:33 AM   
Grimnirsson


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quote:

stop playing the unbalanced game, or balance it yourself. Wastelands is a small shop, I don't think they're going to do the balancing at this point. fortunately there are many ways to do the balancing yourself.


They better do write that on their to-do list, otherwise I won't buy any WI game anymore. Not everyone finds pleasure in modding Gary and when I shell out my good money for a released game I expect a game to work out of the box, simple as that. I really hope they get their game up and running in a believable manner and that means with balanced scenarios and fixed bugs and a competent AI. It sits here on the shelf after buying it a year or more ago and we hope to use it mainly as a PbEM game, so we have faith in WI, but no way that I start fiddling around with it to modify things that should work without me doing research and all. Just sayin.

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RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 10:13:03 AM   
JLPOWELL


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I have to agree with Gary. It IS playable, but must add that some scenarios are way out of balance. Also divisions are not worthless they can be useful, you just can't attack with them (at least without some corps in the mix and they cannot stand up to a group of higher effectiveness corps with them either. This is exaggerated when you look at USSR division vrs a GE corp (worst case scenario)

Playing at normal I have not found a scenario which was not 'too easy' the AI just isn't capable. The hardest scenario is Gotterdamerung, and the USSR in that scenario pretty much suck. (see below for some brief details.) That said the Axis was pretty much toast before xmas 1944.


>> Repost of Gotterdamerung mini AAR >> BTW the Allies/ USSR should move first in this scenario as they had initiave

Not enough detail here for an actual AAR, but when I looked at this from a PvP perspective the GE do appear a bit heavy particularly in air. I played the standard scenario (v1.03 as provided not my MoD) to see how hard it actually is. The results were a bit surprising.

The USSR has to go on the Defensive for several months which indicates they are under-powered. In the west things are very different the AI just can't handle the dynamic of invasions and airdrops, and the UK/USA crushed the AI. Italy was taken in late May, and Hamburg Berlin Copenhagen and Paris were all taken by September 1944 (USSR really never got any traction, but was on the offensive by mid summer.

Settings were FOW set to 3 everything else at the scenario default. US/UK/USSR/Iraq/Persia/Free French/ Human all others AI.

Suggestions to strengthen AI (AI only scenarios this would mess up a PBEM game IMO)
German AI needs strong frozen units on all objective hexes particularly Milan

Generally the scenario has German air way overrated vrs Allied air particularly USA
USSR very weak on ground (again in 1944 ouch...) Recommend increase USSR tech on tanks and inf to 4 and a war effectiveness boost. Adding some (quite a few) frozen units on rails behind the lines with 'freeze expiration' set at intervals would be an easy mod.

Really didn't like Axis bombing units in England early in game and attacking ftrs based there (successfully) and USSR getting pushed back in spring of 44

I think the Germany is overpowered vrs the USSR, and has sufficient strength to hold the allies, but insufficient 'I'

General impression is US is under powered compared to UK with serious lag in tech (Really in 1944 seriously)and the USSR should be able to go on the offensive (again this is 1944) but the scenario is not as out balance as a quick look indicated.
<<

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

It's not unplayable. I've been playing it since it came out.

See my AARs.

If you find a particularly unbalanced aspect, or something that doesn't make sense to you, it's easily moddable. Example, if you think amphibious transports are too expensive, go into the data file and lower the cost of them. It doesn't have to be arbitrary. Look at the historical costs and try to translate that into the game. If costs are about right, but the UK can't buy any, then production is out of kilter. Fix it easily with a mod also, or use F12.

The designers I believe did a good job with OOB for the scenarios, but there has never been enough time to thoroughly test for balance. So you're left with the choice: stop playing the unbalanced game, or balance it yourself. Wastelands is a small shop, I don't think they're going to do the balancing at this point. fortunately there are many ways to do the balancing yourself.

I'm going to start a Gotterdamerung solo as Allies and see if it's as badly balanced as you're saying.


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RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 12:37:11 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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I'm not really computer literate enough to mod.  If I were, I suppose I would try that.  I like the game enough that I would try.

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Post #: 7
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 12:55:34 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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So, for instance, in the GD scenario, the Americans have a two corps in Italy and two motorized divisions.  The divisions will die at first contact with the enemy.  They are wholly useless.  You have to hold them back 3-4 hexes at least if you want them to llive--which means you can't use them.  Upgrades are expensive and take forever, plus, you are limited to reinforcing only 10 points at a time.  So that leaves you with only two corps to fight in Italy, where the Axis strength is immense.  Really, as the Americans, all you can do is block for the Brits, who have to do all the work in Italy.  And you can't use your AF in effective coordination.

Worse, the Americans have this rather large army in the CONUS.  It's all understrength, which means you have to spend several turns reinforcing.  OK, fine.  But also EVERY single unit is a division.  Will be totally useless in France against top German opposition. Sooo ... what?  Hit the cheat and rack up millions of PP, upgrade them all, and then wait an addition 10 turns and start D-Day in the fall?

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RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 4:08:15 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I'm going to do DDay with only divisions. The British will only use the two amphibious transports they have at the start of the scenario.

I suspect that the key is shore bombardment, intense air attacks, well-placed airborne assaults. We'll see what happens.


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Post #: 9
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 4:10:11 PM   
gwgardner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark

So, for instance, in the GD scenario, the Americans have a two corps in Italy and two motorized divisions.  The divisions will die at first contact with the enemy.  They are wholly useless.  You have to hold them back 3-4 hexes at least if you want them to llive--which means you can't use them.  Upgrades are expensive and take forever, plus, you are limited to reinforcing only 10 points at a time.  So that leaves you with only two corps to fight in Italy, where the Axis strength is immense.  Really, as the Americans, all you can do is block for the Brits, who have to do all the work in Italy.  And you can't use your AF in effective coordination.

Worse, the Americans have this rather large army in the CONUS.  It's all understrength, which means you have to spend several turns reinforcing.  OK, fine.  But also EVERY single unit is a division.  Will be totally useless in France against top German opposition. Sooo ... what?  Hit the cheat and rack up millions of PP, upgrade them all, and then wait an addition 10 turns and start D-Day in the fall?


The Germans are doomed in Italy, because their line is held by some rather understrength infantry. Repeated assaults against those weak points is going to breach the line. Then Rome falls, and the Po Valley. I suspect that Italy will be occupied before DDay.

I'll start a mini-AAR in the AAR thread.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 2/7/2013 4:25:12 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 7:17:23 PM   
JLPOWELL


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That's pretty much the result I got in Italy US and UK divisions did prove viable and useful there as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark

So, for instance, in the GD scenario, the Americans have a two corps in Italy and two motorized divisions.  The divisions will die at first contact with the enemy.  They are wholly useless.  You have to hold them back 3-4 hexes at least if you want them to llive--which means you can't use them.  Upgrades are expensive and take forever, plus, you are limited to reinforcing only 10 points at a time.  So that leaves you with only two corps to fight in Italy, where the Axis strength is immense.  Really, as the Americans, all you can do is block for the Brits, who have to do all the work in Italy.  And you can't use your AF in effective coordination.

Worse, the Americans have this rather large army in the CONUS.  It's all understrength, which means you have to spend several turns reinforcing.  OK, fine.  But also EVERY single unit is a division.  Will be totally useless in France against top German opposition. Sooo ... what?  Hit the cheat and rack up millions of PP, upgrade them all, and then wait an addition 10 turns and start D-Day in the fall?


The Germans are doomed in Italy, because their line is held by some rather understrength infantry. Repeated assaults against those weak points is going to breach the line. Then Rome falls, and the Po Valley. I suspect that Italy will be occupied before DDay.

I'll start a mini-AAR in the AAR thread.



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Post #: 11
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 8:06:46 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1617
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JLPOWELL
I have to agree with Gary. It IS playable, but must add that some scenarios are way out of balance. Also divisions are not worthless they can be useful, you just can't attack with them (at least without some corps in the mix and they cannot stand up to a group of higher effectiveness corps with them either. This is exaggerated when you look at USSR division vrs a GE corp (worst case scenario)

Playing at normal I have not found a scenario which was not 'too easy' the AI just isn't capable. The hardest scenario is Gotterdamerung, and the USSR in that scenario pretty much suck. (see below for some brief details.) That said the Axis was pretty much toast before xmas 1944.


>> Repost of Gotterdamerung mini AAR >> BTW the Allies/ USSR should move first in this scenario as they had initiave

Not enough detail here for an actual AAR, but when I looked at this from a PvP perspective the GE do appear a bit heavy particularly in air. I played the standard scenario (v1.03 as provided not my MoD) to see how hard it actually is. The results were a bit surprising.

The USSR has to go on the Defensive for several months which indicates they are under-powered. In the west things are very different the AI just can't handle the dynamic of invasions and airdrops, and the UK/USA crushed the AI. Italy was taken in late May, and Hamburg Berlin Copenhagen and Paris were all taken by September 1944 (USSR really never got any traction, but was on the offensive by mid summer.

Settings were FOW set to 3 everything else at the scenario default. US/UK/USSR/Iraq/Persia/Free French/ Human all others AI.

Suggestions to strengthen AI (AI only scenarios this would mess up a PBEM game IMO)
German AI needs strong frozen units on all objective hexes particularly Milan

Generally the scenario has German air way overrated vrs Allied air particularly USA
USSR very weak on ground (again in 1944 ouch...) Recommend increase USSR tech on tanks and inf to 4 and a war effectiveness boost. Adding some (quite a few) frozen units on rails behind the lines with 'freeze expiration' set at intervals would be an easy mod.

Really didn't like Axis bombing units in England early in game and attacking ftrs based there (successfully) and USSR getting pushed back in spring of 44

I think the Germany is overpowered vrs the USSR, and has sufficient strength to hold the allies, but insufficient 'I'

General impression is US is under powered compared to UK with serious lag in tech (Really in 1944 seriously)and the USSR should be able to go on the offensive (again this is 1944) but the scenario is not as out balance as a quick look indicated.
<<

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

It's not unplayable. I've been playing it since it came out.

See my AARs.

If you find a particularly unbalanced aspect, or something that doesn't make sense to you, it's easily moddable. Example, if you think amphibious transports are too expensive, go into the data file and lower the cost of them. It doesn't have to be arbitrary. Look at the historical costs and try to translate that into the game. If costs are about right, but the UK can't buy any, then production is out of kilter. Fix it easily with a mod also, or use F12.

The designers I believe did a good job with OOB for the scenarios, but there has never been enough time to thoroughly test for balance. So you're left with the choice: stop playing the unbalanced game, or balance it yourself. Wastelands is a small shop, I don't think they're going to do the balancing at this point. fortunately there are many ways to do the balancing yourself.

I'm going to start a Gotterdamerung solo as Allies and see if it's as badly balanced as you're saying.

Rasputitsa - There are some obvious errors in the scenario const file, like the missing lines on 'chance for naval engagement'



Have to add a +1 to this.

You have to keep in mind the scale of the game, 30 mile wide hexes and just over a week per turn, if you put a division into the line to defend 30 miles it's going to get blown away. Put it into a city and give it time to dig in (tried to adapt the scenario trenches data for more bonus after more time in place) then you have creditable defence, which may hold long enough for you to prepare a heavier defence, after the enemy has committed to an attack. Divisions will defend against and deal with partisan and para attacks, you don't want to sprinkle you valuable Corps units all over the countryside.

So I am making use of divisions and so is the AI, German PZ divs are sometimes bouncing off Soviet divisions in 'Fall Gelb', even when divisions are forced to retreat, they still slow things down. Yes, they die quickly, but isn't that just what happened, just make sure the national easy/hard settings give the balance you want.

For a division sized amphibious landing, as at Dieppe, you need to make sure you are landing on a undefended beach, or you have hammered the defenders with air and sea bombardment, otherwise you get the same result as Dieppe. Again, it comes back to scale, using operation 'Shingle' (Anzio) as an example, the initial landings were made by division elements, but with 70,000 men landed in the first week, or a big Corps in one ToF turn. So in a full game turn you are representing the first wave, second wave, third wave, support units, etc, in a Corps sized attack in a big chunk of real-estate. Each D-Day beach, Utah, Omaha, Juno, Sword and Gold, each represents a Corps sized attack over a game turn of just more than a week (with maybe weeks worth of sea and air bombardment).

Gotterdammerung makes a good starting point for an Allied return to mainland Europe, but it needs to be modded to take out some of the obvious errors and start date at the end of 1943, to give time to get ready for a major Allied landing (create the Corps units you need). I intend to use the editor to place more defence lines in Italy for the Axis to retreat to. The AI is set to 'defend at all costs' fortifications of level 5 and up, so place more level 5 fort lines to encourage the AI to hold (Gothic Line etc.), or adapt the AI to defend lower levels. I use self imposed house rules to get more balance against the AI, so for me a D-Day operation will need at least 6 month game time to prepare, which is why Gotterdammerung has to start earlier.

I think the response of most players starting the game is WTF, and there are may WTF moments as you get deeper into each scenario. Some of this, although not by design, can be good, the historical commanders did not have 70 years of books to read, they didn't always know what was going to happen next, war is chaotic, TOF provides this uncertainty.

I am not a computer expert, but I can modify an Excel, or Notebook, file, the problem is finding out what the data does. I have now six different versions of TOF on the HDD, so if I mess up the one I am working on, I have a fall-back. You need to find your way round the scenario and GUI files, if it's a saved game the files are in the Users/My Games/Time of Fury/Saves, if it's going to be a new game it's in the main game folder, mainly scenario/scenario name/const file, other Excel files control other game items, just adapted the 'commanders' file to change some of the names (Doenitz is not going to be at sea and Goring won't be at the Front).

Obviously some will not want to do this, but even if Wastelands could give the game each player wants, it can never please everyone and it is refreshing to have so much access to the workings of a game. The best we can hope for is that they will fix the major bugs, the rest are errors in the way the scenarios have been set up, some scenarios are better than others (Fall Gelb seems one of the better options).

The best hope is to get the editor working better and easier to use, then player scenarios will solve many of the problems which are scenario based. In the game I am playing the national PP levels have collapsed, not sure why, but I have played the game through several versions, which may have caused it. I'm not going to throw the game away, just use F12 to reset the PP levels to where they should be and keep on playing, at least TOF lets players do this. You can spend a lot of time in the innards of the game and any mods and adaptations have to be repeated as each new game version comes out.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 2/7/2013 8:21:59 PM >


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Post #: 12
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 10:18:19 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Playing an ongoing game of 'Fall Gelb' (1.03Beta v3 mdified) as Axis against the AI, closing in on Kiev in the winter, Strength 7 German Mech Korps confronting part of the line occupied by a Strength 1 Soviet INF div, should be easy, but odds 2.38 for attack, 1.72 for defence (99% defence bonus), launching an attack would be pointless, would just be losing strength and getting weaker against any counter attack by the adjoining Soviet Corps during the next AI turn (the AI will exploit weak points). The Soviet division has had time to dig in and I have been playing with the entrenchment settings in the Fall Gelb scenario 'const' file adjusted to extend the entrenchment bonus to accrue over 10 turns instead of 5 (which may be too much), but this Soviet division is no push-over. I have also changed the setting in the Fall Gelb scenario file to delay rail repair, which greatly slows things down in the winter.

The AI has been leaving gaps and I will break through, but it's going to be a long process and air recon shows 18 Soviet Corps now massing around Velikiye Luki and Smolensk, it's going to be an interesting summer campaign, when the winter ends. The AI has mainly Soviet Corps in the front line, but there are gaps covered by divisions, I just don't have the strength to exploit it yet (using house rules restricting the number of German Korps units on the East Front, to near historical levels).

None of this is to dismiss what other people are experiencing with other scenarios and with stock settings, but this game, for all it's faults, can be very good, accepting that I have had to juggle with PP levels in F12 and use house rules to give the AI a fighting chance.








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 2/7/2013 11:04:42 PM >


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RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 10:34:25 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Here is the combat odds screen showing 1:1, obviously in the summer and without the time to establish a line, the division would just be rolled over, but in these conditions it's doing the job. I need to isolate Kiev to get the strength around the city to take it (same with Zhitomir) and break supply in the pocket which is forming. All of this is taking time and the Soviets will be building new lines.

You could say the AI is dumb for defending critical parts of the line with divisions and a human opponent would not do that, but in simulating early war Soviet behaviour, it's not that far out. How dumb was most of the 1941 campaign with millions of Soviets being scooped up and on the other side how dumb was it to lose 250,000 men at Stalingrad and another 250,000 in Tunisia.

It does need some work, but I am finding the game worth playing.







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 2/7/2013 10:59:34 PM >


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RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 10:53:10 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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So, using the cheat, I was trying to start over with a new game and go ahead and reinforce everyone on my first turn.  Well, guess what.  I click and click and nothing happens.  It won't let me reinforce ANY units.  Bug I guess?

No matter what I try, the game just shuts me down.

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Post #: 15
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/7/2013 11:10:07 PM   
gwgardner

 

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had that bug in 1.03 beta

either use 1.03 beta3 or go to the current 1.04, but if you use that latter one, go into your scenario consts.ini and change the air unit rebase supply value to 1.

1.04 is what I use, has all the fixes.

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Post #: 16
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/8/2013 3:32:52 AM   
baloo7777


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quote:

It does need some work, but I am finding the game worth playing.


Using 1.04 and "adjusting" the nation.consts files...i.e. Britain, US, etc. ... I have been able to play the 44 scenario as the allies, and overwelm the german panzers and air (JETS in 44?!) by increasing the % US PP production, sending 100+PP to Britain each turn, and building/reinforcing massive amounts of air units. I constantly degrade the german armor, use air recon to find the ai air units (they like to hang together around Paris and Caen), and with every fighter unit in range, attack one ai air unit at a time until they are destroyed. I used my carrier air to fight the massive german sub fleet and get my convoys through with only minor losses. I landed Inf Divs on areas that were not defended, and with airborn blocking the german tanks, was able to seize a port and move waiting sea transport corps in and disembark one turn later. I know the ai is not the same as a real person (who most likely would have driven my divs into the sea, but I am having an enjoyable time, even with the germans propensity to bring in MANY NEW ARMORED DIVS EACH WEEK (turn)! By degrading the armor with the brits level 4 tactical bombers, you can take them out with a combination of armor corps/mech inf divs. I try to use the Brits Strategic air to bomb the big producers in the Ruhr/Hamburg,etc. I use the US Strat air to hit units I plan to attack for several turns in a row. The brits have been taking the lead in Italy and by the end of sept we are almost to France/swiss border. Italy just surrendered to Brits and all german units disappeared from Italian territory (WTF). Not much historical value, but still having fun. USSR is set to AI very easy, and is seemingly fighting to a draw (by looking at the slowly moving red/black borders each week). German AI is set to normal. Still, the game is fun to play, and I am able to adjust the scenarios to my skill level. Still having air supply issue, but found where to increase suppy in the air.consts file. I only play around with the saved scenario files, and leave the original the way it was. I am finding the game worth playing also!

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RE: Game is unplayable - 2/8/2013 8:13:53 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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New wrinkle is that air units are also useless.  Rock bottom supply everywhere.  With help from this forum, I fixed their inabilty to rebase but I still can't use them in combat.  I guess this is a problem with 1.04.  Wish I had known that before I started!

I have yet to take a GD scenario game even to D-Day.

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 18
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/9/2013 2:53:22 AM   
gwgardner

 

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Look at my AAR. I'm about to launch DDay, and have just launched a Soviet May offensive.

Why do you say air units are useless? I'm using them effectively everywhere, for recon, air to air, ground strikes, and strategic bombing.

(in reply to Mark Clark)
Post #: 19
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/9/2013 10:47:18 AM   
Mark Clark

 

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Supply problem with 1.04.  I "fixed" it, with help, but only by modding the files so that supply no longer matters.  In other words, I had to cheat again.

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Post #: 20
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/9/2013 2:51:24 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I give up on you. This is my last post in response to one of your continuing mistaken impressions of the game. I even started an AAR to show you that you can have a lot of fun with the game. Waste of time as far as you're concerned.

Supply is not broken by any means, except in 1.04 for air units, and you have been given a hotfix for that. Overall, supply is handled more elegantly in this game than any other I've played.

The game is great fun. You're determined to find fault with it. So be it.

(in reply to Mark Clark)
Post #: 21
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/9/2013 3:18:25 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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What?

There IS a problem and the fix IS a cheat.  It's a necessary cheat under the circumstances but it's still a cheat.

I like the game a lot, which is why I am still playing, but it's way frustrating.  I hope it all gets worked out in the end.  Mostly, I hope I can launch D-Day with an all division American army and not get slaughtered!

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 22
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/11/2013 1:55:37 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1617
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark
What?

There IS a problem and the fix IS a cheat.  It's a necessary cheat under the circumstances but it's still a cheat.

I like the game a lot, which is why I am still playing, but it's way frustrating.  I hope it all gets worked out in the end.  Mostly, I hope I can launch D-Day with an all division American army and not get slaughtered!


I think the problem is that it's not so much that the game is unplayable, but that the GD scenario is unbalanced as it is now configured.

I depends on your view of the game, for me I see it as a tool box, the devs have made it open and accessible to the players, if you don't like their design decisions, you can often change them. The breadth of the game is huge, the Atlantic to beyond the Urals, Norway to North Africa, 1939 all the way to the end of the war and it's not surprising that some design decisions don't fit easily across all of that. This game does't run on rails, where you can predict what's going to happen next, it can get into areas other games don't reach. It's not a cheat if you are using the game's features to correct faults and adjust the game, if the devs have made a mistake it's not a cheat to fix it and keep the situations running. Maybe the devs have been overambitious in trying to do too much, but they have provided the tools to help the players to keep their games on track.

So if you want a game that works perfectly, straight out of the box, then this is probably not it, what it actually is, can be very enjoyable and when the 'I don't like that' moment occurs you can often do something about it. Just a glance at the other forum game titles shows that most games become a work in progress, rather than the 'take it, or leave it' of earlier years.

The editor has been a big limitation, as it can be complicated to use. I would like to use the GD scenario for the later war period, but it needs some work. There should be a longer preparation for a major European landing, so start date New Year 1944, more fortified lines set up in Italy for the Axis to fall back on and many other smaller details, but it will just take some work with the editor and the game files.

D-Day was Corps sized landings over several beaches, anything less is just a raid, GD has to be set up to make this a possibility, but with house rules that make it into more of a challenge against the AI.





< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 2/11/2013 2:04:37 PM >


_____________________________

"We have to go from where we are, not from where we would like to be" - me

(in reply to Mark Clark)
Post #: 23
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/18/2013 3:38:34 PM   
Mark Clark

 

Posts: 107
Joined: 7/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I give up on you. This is my last post in response to one of your continuing mistaken impressions of the game. I even started an AAR to show you that you can have a lot of fun with the game. Waste of time as far as you're concerned.

Supply is not broken by any means, except in 1.04 for air units, and you have been given a hotfix for that. Overall, supply is handled more elegantly in this game than any other I've played.

The game is great fun. You're determined to find fault with it. So be it.

hey, any comment on this "little" problem?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3272570&mpage=1&key=?

Now I can't use the save function, and since I don't have a spare 60 consecutive hours to play through without stopping, I guess I can't play at all.

< Message edited by Mark Clark -- 2/18/2013 3:41:08 PM >

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 24
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/18/2013 3:43:56 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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I'm pissed now and for the first time I feel cheated.  The game truly is unplayable.  This is a disgrace.  I'd ask for my money back but I know there's now way to get it and it's not worth my time to try.  But the developers should be embarassed.

(in reply to Mark Clark)
Post #: 25
RE: Game is unplayable - 2/20/2013 5:09:19 AM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 1386
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Look at:

in documents/my games/time of fury there is a file consoleout.txt. You can open it and check at the end of the file for an error. or you can send the file to Doomtrader along with a zip of the saved game folder.

(in reply to Mark Clark)
Post #: 26
Patience - 2/24/2013 3:21:23 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 374
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From: Salinas, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark

I'm pissed now and for the first time I feel cheated.  The game truly is unplayable.  This is a disgrace.  I'd ask for my money back but I know there's now way to get it and it's not worth my time to try.  But the developers should be embarassed.


Mark Clark,
It is a shame that the 1.04 version isn't worth messing with, but I just shelved the game until I see a version that comes out without some huge glaring problem that requires editing in a cheat to overcome the bad programming problem. It's ironic that Strategic War in Europe has only been out half as long as ToF yet it is far more playable. I was lucky to be distracted by my daughter and her family coming out for a visit, sad that I don't see any progress made in releasing a newer version that corrects the air supply bug. Hopefully doomtrader will release a cleaner 1.04 version soon. Until then I have plenty of things to keep me amused without being frustrated by a buggy game.
Omnius

(in reply to Mark Clark)
Post #: 27
RE: Patience - 2/24/2013 3:37:27 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5305
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
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quote:

Mark Clark,
It is a shame that the 1.04 version isn't worth messing with, but I just shelved the game until I see a version that comes out without some huge glaring problem that requires editing in a cheat to overcome the bad programming problem. It's ironic that Strategic War in Europe has only been out half as long as ToF yet it is far more playable. I was lucky to be distracted by my daughter and her family coming out for a visit, sad that I don't see any progress made in releasing a newer version that corrects the air supply bug. Hopefully doomtrader will release a cleaner 1.04 version soon. Until then I have plenty of things to keep me amused without being frustrated by a buggy game.
Omnius


It has been already delivered last week to Matrix

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 28
RE: Patience - 2/24/2013 3:40:51 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 374
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

quote:

Mark Clark,
It is a shame that the 1.04 version isn't worth messing with, but I just shelved the game until I see a version that comes out without some huge glaring problem that requires editing in a cheat to overcome the bad programming problem. It's ironic that Strategic War in Europe has only been out half as long as ToF yet it is far more playable. I was lucky to be distracted by my daughter and her family coming out for a visit, sad that I don't see any progress made in releasing a newer version that corrects the air supply bug. Hopefully doomtrader will release a cleaner 1.04 version soon. Until then I have plenty of things to keep me amused without being frustrated by a buggy game.
Omnius


It has been already delivered last week to Matrix


doomtrader,
Thanks for the quick reply. I take it Matrix will release this new updated 1.04 version with a fixed air supply sometime in the next week or so. How will we know when Matrix has it available for download? Thanks for working to get us a playable version that isn't so frustrating.
Omnius

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 29
RE: Patience - 2/24/2013 6:36:14 PM   
doomtrader


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I'm pretty sure that Matrix Guys will announce it at the forum.

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 30
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