Matrix Games

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

The only thing illegal here in Missouri was the federals. Missouri's order of secession was because of the illegal actions of the federal troops concerning the Camp Jackson Affair and others. So much for neutrality. The feral federal scums brutality didn't end there. The General Order No. 11 was an order of a tyrant and madman. Many many more examples. Imposing their own legislature. Provisional gov.etc

My home town was burned to the ground by their illegal invasion. Land stolen. Murder committed.

But he was your tyrant though so it was o.k.? Sounds all too familiar today.

An act declaring the political ties heretofore existing between the State of Missouri and the United States of America dissolved.

Whereas the Government of the United States, in the possession and under the control of a sectional party, has wantonly violated the compact originally made between said Government and the State of Missouri, by invading with hostile armies the soil of the State, attacking and making prisoners the militia while legally assembled under the State laws, forcibly occupying the State capitol, and attempting through the instrumentality of domestic traitors to usurp the State government, seizing and destroying private property, and murdering with fiendish malignity peaceable citizens, men, women, and children, together with other acts of atrocity, indicating a deep-settled hostility toward the people of Missouri and their institutions;

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And the United States was attempting to find a peaceful solution

You don't actually believe that do you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

The only thing illegal here in Missouri was the federals. Missouri's order of secession was because of the illegal actions of the federal troops concerning the Camp Jackson Affair and others. So much for neutrality. The feral federal scums brutality didn't end there. The General Order No. 11 was an order of a tyrant and madman. Many many more examples. Imposing their own legislature. Provisional gov.etc

My home town was burned to the ground by their illegal invasion. Land stolen. Murder committed.

But he was your tyrant though so it was o.k.? Sounds all too familiar today.

An act declaring the political ties heretofore existing between the State of Missouri and the United States of America dissolved.

Whereas the Government of the United States, in the possession and under the control of a sectional party, has wantonly violated the compact originally made between said Government and the State of Missouri, by invading with hostile armies the soil of the State, attacking and making prisoners the militia while legally assembled under the State laws, forcibly occupying the State capitol, and attempting through the instrumentality of domestic traitors to usurp the State government, seizing and destroying private property, and murdering with fiendish malignity peaceable citizens, men, women, and children, together with other acts of atrocity, indicating a deep-settled hostility toward the people of Missouri and their institutions;

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And the United States was attempting to find a peaceful solution

You don't actually believe that do you?

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Many northern Missouri towns were pro union.

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ORIGINAL: rogo727

Mr. P
Fear not! You're not the only American who is fed up. Many like myself are no longer republican or democrat but independent. While I don't ever think that we will have another civil war I think that change will be coming.

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ORIGINAL: parusski

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ORIGINAL: barkorn45

Why would you say secession is not a viable option or even allowed?
Just because lincoln used military power to force the seceded states back into the union does'nt
mean they did'nt have the right of secession.
Find me documented proof that the founders disallowed secession.
They had seceded from the british empire after all
I'll repeat the answer that Patrick Henry gave to the governor of virginia
when asked by him at the ratification of the constitution
if his state could leave the union if they found it not to their liking.
"Yes but be warned some future president may invade your country and burn your homes"
You don't think Texas could exist as an independent country?
Also technically the south did'nt rebel against the union,they did'nt try to overthrow
the government they peacefully chose to leave it.

I know. Don't confuse certain people with the facts. I am actually in the mood to have my house leave the Union and become a House State. I am furious at the level of taxation, assaults on our constitutional rights, the imposing of ideologies on our school children-the list of grievances against our Federal monster government is to long to list here...I meant to say "Lincoln, and the Republicans, did not think secession legal"!

I know I have been all over the map on the issue. The reality is I don't want this country to fall apart(and am glad it did not in the 1860's), but I think we are in the process of that happening. When you have huge numbers of sheriffs making public statements saying they will not only NOT enforce federal gun control laws, but will actually defend the citizens of their counties from federal agents, things are looking grim. And yes, sheriffs are, usually, the ultimate law enforcer's in our country. They take an oath to defend the Constitution, a Constitution which says we have the right to bear arms...it does not say "bear arms that the government says you can bear". I am through being civil on this issue.

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel



'American artist George Caleb Bingham, who was staunchly pro-Union, called Order No. 11 an "act of imbecility" and wrote letters protesting it. Bingham wrote to Gen. Ewing, "If you execute this order, I shall make you infamous with pen and brush,"

It is well-known that men were shot down in the very act of obeying the order, and their wagons and effects seized by their murderers. Large trains of wagons, extending over the prairies for miles in length, and moving Kansasward, were freighted with every description of household furniture and wearing apparel belonging to the exiled inhabitants. Dense columns of smoke arising in every direction marked the conflagrations of dwellings, many of the evidences of which are yet to be seen in the remains of seared and blackened chimneys, standing as melancholy monuments of a ruthless military despotism which spared neither age, sex, character, nor condition. There was neither aid nor protection afforded to the banished inhabitants by the heartless authority which expelled them from their rightful possessions. They crowded by hundreds upon the banks of the Missouri River, and were indebted to the charity of benevolent steamboat conductors for transportation to places of safety where friendly aid could be extended to them without danger to those who ventured to contribute it.'

You defend this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

The only thing illegal here in Missouri was the federals. Missouri's order of secession was because of the illegal actions of the federal troops concerning the Camp Jackson Affair and others. So much for neutrality. The feral federal scums brutality didn't end there. The General Order No. 11 was an order of a tyrant and madman. Many many more examples. Imposing their own legislature. Provisional gov.etc

My home town (Eminence Mo.)was burned to the ground by their illegal invasion. Land stolen. Murder committed.

But he was your tyrant though so it was o.k.? Sounds all too familiar today.

An act declaring the political ties heretofore existing between the State of Missouri and the United States of America dissolved.

Whereas the Government of the United States, in the possession and under the control of a sectional party, has wantonly violated the compact originally made between said Government and the State of Missouri, by invading with hostile armies the soil of the State, attacking and making prisoners the militia while legally assembled under the State laws, forcibly occupying the State capitol, and attempting through the instrumentality of domestic traitors to usurp the State government, seizing and destroying private property, and murdering with fiendish malignity peaceable citizens, men, women, and children, together with other acts of atrocity, indicating a deep-settled hostility toward the people of Missouri and their institutions;

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And the United States was attempting to find a peaceful solution

You don't actually believe that do you?

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barbarity that occured on 21 August 1861 at Lawrence, Kansas.

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ORIGINAL: doomtrader

parruski, I was rather asking about the whole antislavery war.
Civil War in teh movie was presented as a war for freeing slaves.

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

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barbarity that occured on 21 August 1861 at Lawrence, Kansas.

Lawrence actually occurred in 1863 in retaliation for the sacking of Osceola. Are you familiar with those facts? You know, another town that was plundered and burnt to the ground by the jayhawkers. The attack led by the sitting Kansas senator James Henry Lane himself, on Missouri towns where they burnt and plundered culminating in the atrocities at Osceola. You know, Osceola, where Lane had a 'trial' and executed 9 men before burning it to the ground and stealing everything they could?

The raid on Osceola that was led by lane and perpetrated by his jayhawkers that General Halleck, comander of the Department of Missouri said,'The course pursued by those under Lane and Jennison has turned against us many thousands who were formerly Union men. A few more such raids will make this State unanimous against us.'

Quantrill said himself that the raid on the Lawrence was 'To plunder, and destroy the town in retaliation for Osceola.'
Lane escaped being shot through the head that night for his actions only to shoot himself in the head as he committed suicide a few years later. Too bad they didn't go after six mile house. Not that I condone such actions, but I could see how things escalated after those events and after her sovereignty was invaded.

Good ole Clint Eastwood's movie The Outlaw Josie Wales was based on that raid along with other books and plays.

But keep reaching. I'm sure you will find some kind of rational for actions that almost everyone, including those for the union cause, deemed extreme and damaging.


You're entitled to you own opinion, but not your own facts.