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Mud supply (no Hugh)

 
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Mud supply (no Hugh) - 2/2/2013 3:29:02 AM   
Jagdfluger

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 11/10/2004
Status: offline 		In the first turn of mud, the Germans have captured 103,18 and 103,17, but the huge number of Russian units that should be isolated stringing all the way back to Leningrad show up as only yellow (50-100MPs). The Russian railhead is at 106,18 and tracing supply immediately puts Russian trucks heading over swamps northwest from that point, just south of Lake Beloe, the west over the minor river and through heavy woods. I routed a Russian division near Leningrad that should have been isolated and routed normally instead of surrendering (I thought maybe the map was just showing the wrong color).

While this is happening in north, lots of German units to the south are red and isolated being closer to their rail heads the Russians around Leningrad (and without the swamps). All of the Russian units show yellow in the northern area, not just those around Leningrad (thinking that the city maybe providing supply?, but it should not).

Any ideas on this?

Thanks in advance for your help.


< Message edited by Jagdfluger -- 2/2/2013 4:30:46 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Mud supply - 2/2/2013 4:29:09 AM   
Jagdfluger

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 11/10/2004
Status: offline 		Here is a screen shot




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Jagdfluger)
Post #: 2
RE: Mud supply - 2/2/2013 6:50:23 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		IIRC, the rails, while cut, still provide a benefit in tracing along them since they aren't damaged. It might be it adds 1 hex but only 1 MP to the count, I don't recall the specifics. I assume you don't have working rail as close to your units, correct?

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Jagdfluger)
Post #: 3
RE: Mud supply - 2/2/2013 1:12:46 PM   
Jagdfluger

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 11/10/2004
Status: offline 		From the amended manual, Section 20.1.1:
"Note that rail hexes that are adjacent to enemy units are considered not connected to the rail network. These hexes may not be used for strategic rail movement and are not considered railheads for supply purposes, however, when tracing from a rail hex on the grid to an undamaged rail hex adjacent to an enemy unit, as long as the supply trace is not leaving an enemy ZOC, the supply trace will only cost one MP to trace into that hex (instead of having to pay the full MPs of the terrain in the hex). This makes the over water and normal supply paths the same in terms of going into those hexes adjacent to enemy units that have undamaged rail lines. This rule represents that although the rail may not be getting used all the way to within ten miles of the front line, the fact that there is an undamaged rail in the hex means communication lines into that hex are better than if there was no rail line hex or if it was damaged."

The rule is for undamaged rail hexes adjacent to enemy units, i.e., the last 10 miles leading up to the front line. While I see the logic in this being a rule regardless, that is not what the rule says.

Is there another part of the manual I am missing that allows a 1 MP supply trace along an entire section? Wouldn't the 10 hex limit at least apply to make units isolated?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 4
RE: Mud supply - 2/2/2013 10:38:03 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure it's always been for any broken, but undamaged rail line hex. Sounds like the rules need some clarification unless it's somewhere else in the manual.

I'm not sure what 10 hex limit you are talking about? You can trace a lot more than 10 hexes without being isolated.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Jagdfluger)
Post #: 5
RE: Mud supply - 3/3/2013 11:49:43 PM   
Jagdfluger

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 11/10/2004
Status: offline 		If a player gets an advantage of an MP of 1 in mud for unbroken rail, shouldn't the Germans get to use captured rail in the same way? In other words, the railhead is not extended, but the Germans (or Russians coming back west) can use rail lines to speed supply from the railhead. I think both sides even used captured locomotives on the enemy's rail network gauge after transferring from trains of one gauge to another.

I would think captured rail lines should at least offer some better supply tracing than the open countryside... Maybe a 50% reduction in MPs? Even assuming the entire railline is destroyed in a scotched earth policy (which did not happen systematically in the panicked retreat of 1941), the capturing force could at least use the elevated terrain and gravel to move more efficiently, particularly in mud.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 6
RE: Mud supply - 3/4/2013 4:57:27 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Possibly, but I just happened to read something over the weekend about how the troops loved to shoot up trains, which would go against this. Of course I can't remember if I was reading about Germans shooting up Soviet trains or Allies shooting up German trains in France (that's the problem about working on WitW and WitE at the same time).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Jagdfluger)
Post #: 7
RE: Mud supply - 3/5/2013 1:37:53 AM   
Jagdfluger

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 11/10/2004
Status: offline 		I don't understand. The game allows for 1 MP in mud if its undamaged, but unconnected rail. Why not newly captured rail if it is territory that you control behind your own lines?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 8
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