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About Wargamers - 2/2/2013 1:24:53 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8782
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		This is a copy of a post I made on a political forum, but politics are left out. If you guys want to add something about wargamers in general, please feel free to do so:

"I've played board wargames since I was 10 years old, and PC games since my mid-20s, and I regard the best ones as those that refine and sharpen one's reasoning skills. Yes, these games do exist, but they are overshadowed in the media by the so-called 'first person shooter' games, which simply require quick-clicks and mindless motor skills.

The kind of games I'm talking about and produced by companies like Matrix Games, which produce combat simulations from ancient times to the far future. Most of their games are turn-based, otherwise called "you go - I go". In these types of historical simulations, you are placed in command of military units from the squad to a whole corps, and are required to maneuver these in a fashion to defeat the opponent, which can be either a computer-managed AI or another human via play by e-mail (PBEM).

The players of these games are usually intelligent folks who enjoy reading history books and have jobs, sometimes very highly-paid ones, and are ignored by the media types. The players of these games correspond through various gaming forums, and yes, there are some trolls, but not many.

I've been using these types of games for many years for both their entertainment value and to sharpen my real-life reasoning skills. These are games with educational content, as the background information contained within a good wargame's documentation is as valuable as the game itself.

The obvious question involving wargame simulation is 'does it glorify war?' No, it does not. However, warfare has been part of human existence since it's beginning, and it's not going to go away anytime soon. These types of games encourage one to think about the results of their decisions, and not simply to 'get off by blowing up stuff'.

However, once in awhile, it is nice to manuever your enemy into a position in which you can destroy his ability to resist. That's how wars are won. "





< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/2/2013 1:27:18 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: About Wargamers - 2/2/2013 2:40:20 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		It's a difficult question to give a reply too. A fascination with History, gaining a connection to the past. Keeping soldiers alive within memory (I feel this especially reading memoirs, esp if the author died after writing it, sort of away of keeping his and his comrades memory alive). Also I think a question of the Human experience, War brings out the best and worse in man, it's the extremes of emotion and I suppose the human experience in technocolour. The bonds of comradeship and the ability to live through situations that are really impossible to fully imagine. I suppose War is when a man is never more alive and yet so close to death that also fascinates. The you have the cerebral side to it, the commanders and tactics etc etc that is also fascinating, I suppose the book The Art of War is a good title as War is a kind of art form..a dance with death. Finally being Humans war is something that is part of us and something Man has an affinity with even from a young age boys are fascinated with war to the point of reenacting it with there mates using hands\arms for guns.

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 2
RE: About Wargamers - 2/2/2013 3:13:40 AM   
Rtwfreak

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 12/11/2011
Status: offline 		Water pistols at 10 paces!

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 3
RE: About Wargamers - 2/2/2013 6:02:49 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4468
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline 		K G Erwin, do you think Making History fits into the educational category? I know the Muzzy people have labeled the game as a "classroom learning tool", but what do you say?

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 4
RE: About Wargamers - 2/2/2013 7:31:56 PM   
Orm


Posts: 3808
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

This is a copy of a post I made on a political forum, but politics are left out.

Interesting. Do you think it is possible to direct me to the original post so I could read the political portion as well?

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

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Post #: 5
RE: About Wargamers - 2/3/2013 12:50:54 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8782
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		OK, the original post is here: http://www.greasylake.org/the-circuit/index.php?/topic/111925-game-play-as-therapy/

This is a music site, but it has a dedicated political forum. It is frowned upon here, but that's OK and understandable.

IF you guys want to join up, that's fine, but it is NOT my intention to spam this gaming forum. I've been a member here for many years, and many of you know my background with Matrix. Understood? Good.

It WOULD be helpful if a few of you could let your feelings be known about wargaming, as I'm in a definite minority over there. Thank you.

If a moderator wants to close this thread, that's fine with me. I'd request that you do so.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/3/2013 12:58:17 AM >

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 6
RE: About Wargamers - 2/3/2013 2:55:25 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		No. Wargames do not glorify war. Wargames are strategy game, whether they are turn based or real time. It's not the war aspect that makes them appealing, it's the enjoyment of planning ahead and controlling large numbers of units.

It's like a super large version of chess, but with a much wider area and hundreds, if not thousands of pieces.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 7
RE: About Wargamers - 2/3/2013 12:35:36 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Hmmmm...yes we don't glorify War. However I do think it's the war aspect that appeals. I don't like puzzle games, one reason I'm not that into rock paper scissors wargames. I do enjoy playing out a battle I've read about, esp if I've also read first hand accounts of. It fires the imagination and I'd be telling fibs if it wasn't the War aspect and all it entails I find fascinating...it's the human condition.

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to ilovestrategy)
Post #: 8
RE: About Wargamers - 2/3/2013 6:42:36 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4468
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline 		Interesting indeed.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 9
RE: About Wargamers - 2/3/2013 8:49:48 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 10812
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		DONE IT HOORAY ME!!

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 10
RE: About Wargamers - 2/4/2013 5:15:47 PM   
Orm


Posts: 3808
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

DONE IT HOORAY ME!!

I don't see it.

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 11
RE: About Wargamers - 2/4/2013 6:24:23 PM   
Rtwfreak

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 12/11/2011
Status: offline 		I don't even look at wargames as wargames basically in the first place. I look at them as having some historical war "overlay" but hardly anything real or realistic about them. I've always seen wargames as a different form of "chess or checkers". They are just numbers on counters and you learn how to manipulate and maneuver those numbers to get a victory just like you would in chess or checkers. I never followed history to play a wargame. I read the "rules" of the "game" and that is what I played a "game" by the rules and not some historical recreation of some world war or battle. When I first started wargaming (avalon hill) I could tell you little to nothing about the battles I played like Gettysburg, Stalingrad, Guadacanal, Midway, Alexander, Battle of the Bulge and D-Day, but, I could beat the sox off of you after knowing the rules and what was powerful on the map and what was weak. Just like chess it's nothing more than a learning stage and you don't have to know anything about a war or a battle or history to play one.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 12
RE: About Wargamers - 2/4/2013 6:33:21 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Funny how we all see it differently...without an interest in the particular War I have little interest in the game..the more I read on a battle or war the more I want to play out a wargame and the more immersed I become in it when I do. Thats why tactical level upto Coy level games suit me the most..it's more ground level and easier for me to immerse myself and use my imagination and also easier to find first hand accounts and books at those levels\scales that have gripping narrative.

Playing wargames because of Chess\Puzzle\Numbers game is all abit to dry for me.

It's also remembrance...eventually the only people with any memory or knowledge of these battles will be wargamers and all that sacrifice and the wors sof the men who fought and died will be lost as no one would be reading them anymore.

Oh and come on it also stems from us being kids with Plastic or lead soldiers and a marble aswell as the movies and even relatives stories and has carried on from there..

Plus most of us secretly want to dress in a German Uniform and goose step down the road..with a big torch parade and everything;)

< Message edited by wodin -- 2/4/2013 6:54:52 PM >

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to Rtwfreak)
Post #: 13
RE: About Wargamers - 2/4/2013 6:53:21 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4468
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline
quote:

Oh and come on it also stems from us being kids with Plastic or lead soldiers and a marble aswell as the movies and even relatives stories and has carried on from there..

Plus most of us secretory want to dress in a German Uniform and goose step down the road..with a big torch parade and everything;)


Finally, you got something right.

Plastic soldiers trembled when I was 10.

Come to Wyoming and you will see me and my neighbor(Ted Turner) both in tacticular Nazi uniforms, goose stepping and taking pot shots at those of Dutch heritage.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 14
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