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Supply to Mandalay?

 
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Supply to Mandalay? - 1/31/2013 5:31:36 AM   
abulbulian


Posts: 778
Joined: 3/31/2005
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Trying to figure out if I'll ever get any supply up to Mandalay as the Japanese. Here's the situation.

1) mid Dec 42
2) control Rangoon w/ decent supply there 60k+
3) have only few small troops in Mandalay
4) no air in Mandalay
5) airfield is un-damaged (for now)
6) rail connects Rangoon and Mandalay
7) all cities around Mandalay in Red ! as well for supply.

I understand that there's a restriction in most of those northern cities/towns in Burma. I can see by the supply # in () between 250-1500. Does that mean the most that can be stored or passed through? Trying to send in air supply but logic tells me that with a 1 TR plane that has 2000 cap will carry 2 supply points? Thus, 100 of these supply planes will transport 200 supply? Is this tons? Seems low?

Given #3 - #5 I would think the draw of supply from Mandalay would be very low. So why after almost 3 weeks can't I get more than 20 supply. Strange it's always 20 supply in Mandalay almost seems like a bug or that # should fluctuate a little? Especially since I've been adding some bombers to carry more supply in at times to see the effect, which has been nothing. Is the weather having some effect?

Really not sure how the Japanese could ever mount any sort of attack North/West of Rangoon towards India with no supply coming thru.. even on rail?

Can somebody please explain why this situation exist?




< Message edited by abulbulian -- 1/31/2013 5:33:21 AM >


_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha Tester WitW

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
Post #: 1
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 1/31/2013 6:45:43 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Trying to figure out if I'll ever get any supply up to Mandalay as the Japanese. Here's the situation.

1) mid Dec 42
2) control Rangoon w/ decent supply there 60k+
3) have only few small troops in Mandalay
4) no air in Mandalay
5) airfield is un-damaged (for now)
6) rail connects Rangoon and Mandalay
7) all cities around Mandalay in Red ! as well for supply.

I understand that there's a restriction in most of those northern cities/towns in Burma. I can see by the supply # in () between 250-1500. Does that mean the most that can be stored or passed through? Trying to send in air supply but logic tells me that with a 1 TR plane that has 2000 cap will carry 2 supply points? Thus, 100 of these supply planes will transport 200 supply? Is this tons? Seems low?

Given #3 - #5 I would think the draw of supply from Mandalay would be very low. So why after almost 3 weeks can't I get more than 20 supply. Strange it's always 20 supply in Mandalay almost seems like a bug or that # should fluctuate a little? Especially since I've been adding some bombers to carry more supply in at times to see the effect, which has been nothing. Is the weather having some effect?

Really not sure how the Japanese could ever mount any sort of attack North/West of Rangoon towards India with no supply coming thru.. even on rail?

Can somebody please explain why this situation exist?

How about sending me a save and I'll have a look-see ...

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 2
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 1/31/2013 3:42:53 PM   
Alfred

 

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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1. Having 60k+ supply in Rangoon is fairly meaningless. Much more important is what is the required supply amount for Rangoon itself. Rangoon will only export supply to other bases when its own supply depots are greater than 3x its required supply.

2. A transport plane or level bomber can airflit 1 supply point per 2000lb load. Most transport planes have more than a 2000lb capacity. If you are using planes with only a 2000lb capacity you are really using very light transport planes. I find absolutely nothing strange that you are airlifting only 100 supply points if employing 100 planes with a 2000lb cargo capacity.

3. Mid December is outside the monsoon season. During monsoon season the amount in brackets is the maximum amount that can be drawn in.

4. Base depots only build up after the garrison itself is fully stocked up. There is nothing unusual in a base depot remaining steady at 20. That usually means that the units located there are grabbing first whatever supply is flowing to the base because they themselves are undersupplied.

5. Besides units themselves there are other users of supply. Building up infrastructure, such as airfilds and forts will consume supply. Repairing industry will also consume supply.

6. Weather does not affect supply. Terrain does affect overland supply movement.

Alfred

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 3
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 1/31/2013 8:23:52 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 7231
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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Now that I have taken Rangoon as the Allies supply is flowing clear up the road and into China to my most forward base at Tsyung. Two things I have done. I am pumping a lot (emphasis on lot) of supply into Rangoon and all bases along that route and in North Burma are well built up. But the supply flows just fine.

The limitation with Japan is how much supply they can get to Rangoon (eventually the Allies might have some say in this) and how much supply do you have to spare to commit to that theater. Plus it is not necessarily such a good idea to build up a lot of bases in Burma that the Allies will eventually own and use against you. So it is not an easy task for the Japanese player.

Sort of reflects the actual reality for Japan in that theater.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 4
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 1/31/2013 9:29:11 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 778
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

1. Having 60k+ supply in Rangoon is fairly meaningless. Much more important is what is the required supply amount for Rangoon itself. Rangoon will only export supply to other bases when its own supply depots are greater than 3x its required supply.

2. A transport plane or level bomber can airflit 1 supply point per 2000lb load. Most transport planes have more than a 2000lb capacity. If you are using planes with only a 2000lb capacity you are really using very light transport planes. I find absolutely nothing strange that you are airlifting only 100 supply points if employing 100 planes with a 2000lb cargo capacity.

3. Mid December is outside the monsoon season. During monsoon season the amount in brackets is the maximum amount that can be drawn in.

4. Base depots only build up after the garrison itself is fully stocked up. There is nothing unusual in a base depot remaining steady at 20. That usually means that the units located there are grabbing first whatever supply is flowing to the base because they themselves are undersupplied.

5. Besides units themselves there are other users of supply. Building up infrastructure, such as airfilds and forts will consume supply. Repairing industry will also consume supply.

6. Weather does not affect supply. Terrain does affect overland supply movement.

Alfred


Thanks very much Alfred! I now believe the key to my issue lies with your first point. The amount of supplies needed to keep Rangoon running X 3 is probably less that the 60k on hand. Thus, nothing will flow north to my other cities in Burma. Will see what happens when I can increase what is onhand in Rangoon.



_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha Tester WitW

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 1/31/2013 10:54:43 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2520
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
As the Japanese, it took me over ten months to get the upstream bases built and up to 20k supply each. The flow is very slow, but is still large enough to MAINTAIN a 20k level with large garrisons and a/c levels. The trouble is that a garrison and engineers building airfields consumes about all the supply that can move in the pipeline in monsoon; actually operating a/c at those bases while still building up the airfields can cause to supply level to drop in spite of an excess of supply in Rangoon available to flow up the line.

One caution, supply WILL flow from Rangoon to Bangkok with major attrition losses so make sure that every base between Singers and Bangkok (inclusive) is at max level before loading up Rangoon; otherwise you have just discovered a hard way to throw supplies overboard.

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 6
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 2/1/2013 11:50:44 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
3. Mid December is outside the monsoon season. During monsoon season the amount in brackets is the maximum amount that can be drawn in.


I thought the amount in brackets indicates the supply cap applied to the hex in normal weather and that during monsoon conditions this supply cap is further reduced by half.

At least this is how I understand Andy Mac in http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2870931



< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 2/1/2013 11:51:15 AM >


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Post #: 7
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 8/17/2013 11:48:59 AM   
rook749


Posts: 716
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Now that I have taken Rangoon as the Allies supply is flowing clear up the road and into China to my most forward base at Tsyung. Two things I have done. I am pumping a lot (emphasis on lot) of supply into Rangoon and all bases along that route and in North Burma are well built up. But the supply flows just fine.

The limitation with Japan is how much supply they can get to Rangoon (eventually the Allies might have some say in this) and how much supply do you have to spare to commit to that theater. Plus it is not necessarily such a good idea to build up a lot of bases in Burma that the Allies will eventually own and use against you. So it is not an easy task for the Japanese player.

Sort of reflects the actual reality for Japan in that theater.

quote:

Alfred


Well searching for this as a new player is a huge help :) Thanks Alfred --- this answered a lot of my questions before I added another post..

Rook

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 8
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 8/18/2013 10:17:22 PM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 204
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italia
Status: offline
I had the same problem, I couldn't flow the supplies in burma northern bases.
In my case it was caused by bases flags, I simply had to:
1) uncheck the 'stockpiles supplies' flag in Rangoon , in all other burmese bases and also in bases inside the supply chain from Rangoon (also bangcok and singapore)
2) raise the supply requirements for Mandalay to 7k, this pulls the triple of supplies (=21k) into the base

(in reply to rook749)
Post #: 9
RE: Supply to Mandalay? - 8/19/2013 2:51:35 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 5147
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
This isn't entirely cogent, but generally, anywhere important on or near the front line or any isolated island, I try to get 10x the supply requirement. If you are the Allied player, there is nowhere on earth that you cannot meet that target. In your case though, I recommend you dump supplies in Rangoon til you reach at least 5x requirements, then see how things go. If you don't have a lot of stuff in Rangoon (ships, planes, troops) you need to go to at least 10x (imo) if you intend to keep Mandalay in supply. Transports and bombers are for emergencies or for troops deep in undeveloped roadless territory. I need to clarify that, air transport is always a good idea when you're having supply problems, but usually it's most effective if it goes directly to troops in great need. Usually the amount they can leave at airbases is a tiny fraction of the overall requirement and simply gets lost in the numbers. However, landing supplies at a small base that has an airstrip should be more efficient than air dropping the supplies.

But yes, if you want to invade India through Burma, you will experience supply difficulties equal to or greater than they will when they move to take Burma back. If you can take Akyab and dump supplies by sea there, that will help alot.

(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 10
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