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Problem resizing some Carrier groups

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support >> Problem resizing some Carrier groups Page: [1]
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Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/29/2013 6:22:07 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
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Hi,

I´m playing PBEM scenario 2 as the japs and the game is in july 1942.
Beta 1.119F.

My carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku just got their 06/42 radar upgrade as well as their standard resize for the air groups.

So far so good. After the resizing you´re free to adjust the size of the air units for these carriers. Sadly not for all CVs.
I can resize ALL air goups at my current fleet CVs (Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu and Junyo). These ships did not get their first update yet.
For my now radar equipped Shokaku and Zuikaku i can resize only the Vals, but not the Fighter unit or the torpedo bombers. And i can´t see any reason.
For these groups i have not even the "resize option button". Picture is attached.

For me there is no obvious reason for not beeing able to resize. The only difference to my other CVs where all groups can resize is the first update.
It might be a bug, but not sure about this.

Already asked a more experienced player before posting here and he had no solution. Maybe one of you guy´s know whats wrong.
Or did i really run into a bug ? Will i maybe loose the resize opportunity for ALL my CVs after i upgraded them ?
Some tips would be great.

@MichaelM if you want the save pls tell me.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by seille -- 1/30/2013 7:11:05 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/29/2013 6:37:42 PM   
Alfred

 

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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These are the rules for resizing carrier air groups posted by michaelm back in November 2010.

When the 'resize to fit' option is enabled, the groups try to resize to fit the space on the CVx as per the old rules of version 1806 of stock.
These rules are based on Allied/Japanese, type of CVx, number of groups onboard, etc.

Only carrier capable F. FB, NF, DB and TB groups can resize according to the first applicable condition below.

a) if only one group on the CVx, then new size is 9/10 of CV capacity.
b) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB and date is less than 7 months since Dec 1941, new size is 1/3 of CV capacity.
c) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is DB, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is TB, new size is 0.25 times CV capacity.
(iv) any other type, new size is 0.13 times CV capacity.
d) if Japanese and ship type is CVL, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is 0.6 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
e) if British, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is (0.6 times CV capacity) divided by number of fighter groups on board.
(ii) if more than one fighter group present and any other type, new size is (0.4 times CV capacity) divided by number of non-fighter groups on board.
f) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and capacity >99, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is TB, new size is 0.132 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.28 times CV capacity.
g) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and year<44, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F and date is less than 7 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is F, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is DB and year<43, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
(iv) type is DB and year=43 and one DB group present, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(v) type is TB and year=42, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(vi) any other type, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
h) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and year>43, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F and date is less than 31 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.45 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is F and date is less than 37 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.47 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is F, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(iv) type is DB and date is more than 36 months since Dec 1941 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(v) type is DB and date is more than 36 months since Dec 1941 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(vi) type is DB and date is more than 30 months since Dec 1941 and less than 4 groups present and one DB group present, new size is 0.36 times CV capacity.
(vii) type is DB and date is less than 31 months since Dec 1941 and less than 4 groups present and one DB group present, new size is 0.38 times CV capacity.
(viii) type is TB and year=45 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(ix) any other type, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
i) if Allied and ship type is CVE and date is greater than 28 months since Dec 1941, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F , new size is 0.71 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
j) if Allied and ship type is CVE or CVL , new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F , new size is 0.7 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
k) anything else, new size is CV capacity / number of groups

Note that if too many groups are assigned to CVx or some groups are not set to resize, there can be some strange group sizes that could disable Air Ops.


Alfred

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 2
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/29/2013 7:00:11 PM   
seille

 

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From: Germany
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Thanks Alfred, but these rules do not help if i can do my resizing at the Akagi and Kaga, but not at the Shokaku and Zuikaku.
Even for these ships i can upgrade, but ONLY the Divebombers.

If there would be a rule, i could either resize ALL groups this way or none.
Beside this i have some doubts that there were no changes to resizing in the last two years. The ratios in the rules you posted can´t
be true yet, since i usually set the size of airgroups myself since one of the last updates.

During my resize i had not too many groups aboard the "problem-CVs". The circumstances were the same as for the CVs the resize worked.
It is frustrating. Hopefully MichaelM has an idea.

edit: resize to fit ship is not my standard setting. I set it always to "resize to xx"(put in the number i want) at the turn i want the groups to change size.

< Message edited by seille -- 1/29/2013 7:09:42 PM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/30/2013 9:39:38 AM   
Chris H

 

Posts: 3354
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From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

Thanks Alfred, but these rules do not help if i can do my resizing at the Akagi and Kaga, but not at the Shokaku and Zuikaku.
Even for these ships i can upgrade, but ONLY the Divebombers.

If there would be a rule, i could either resize ALL groups this way or none.
Beside this i have some doubts that there were no changes to resizing in the last two years. The ratios in the rules you posted can´t
be true yet, since i usually set the size of airgroups myself since one of the last updates.

During my resize i had not too many groups aboard the "problem-CVs". The circumstances were the same as for the CVs the resize worked.
It is frustrating. Hopefully MichaelM has an idea.

edit: resize to fit ship is not my standard setting. I set it always to "resize to xx"(put in the number i want) at the turn i want the groups to change size.



I think you find that some groups are not set to resize. I've noticed that this seems to happen often when the scenario has a planned resize set.

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 4
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/30/2013 10:30:27 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
Chris,

All the fleet CVs had a planned resize set (and done). Only the fighters and torpedo bombers of Shokaku and Zuikaku are making problems now.
I doubt this is wad. Hopefully MichaelM will look at it soon and tell me whats going on there.

(in reply to Chris H)
Post #: 5
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/30/2013 10:41:18 AM   
Barb


Posts: 1573
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
Ability to manually pick the size of the unit is not available on those carrier groups either (or should not be).
As carrier air group size upgrades are code driven (and not DB driven) you are currently in B) option of the upgrade with Shokaku/Zuikaku:
quote:


b) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB and date is less than 7 months since Dec 1941, new size is 1/3 of CV capacity.

- that is 27/27/27 for 81 total planes.

Your next automatic group re-size will continue with the following option (past 7 months since Dec 1941):
quote:


c) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is DB, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is TB, new size is 0.25 times CV capacity.
(iv) any other type, new size is 0.13 times CV capacity.

- that is for 30/30/21 (or 3/3/2 ratio) for 81 total planes.

< Message edited by Barb -- 1/30/2013 10:42:48 AM >


_____________________________


"Hello IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again?"

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 6
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/30/2013 10:47:06 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8844
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

Chris,

All the fleet CVs had a planned resize set (and done). Only the fighters and torpedo bombers of Shokaku and Zuikaku are making problems now.
I doubt this is wad. Hopefully MichaelM will look at it soon and tell me whats going on there.

Were the group split and rebuilt?
Add a save. It probably wont tell me why it lost its ability if it had it, but it might tell me something.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 7
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/30/2013 1:24:09 PM   
Puhis

 

Posts: 1687
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
I've seen this too. In my case I bought back air units from sunken carriers, and after 1st resize some of the units lost the ability to resize again. I couldn't figure out what caused it, but it doesn't seem to affect all unit I bought.

(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 8
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/30/2013 2:54:40 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
Diving into Tracker i found a probable reason for my problem.

In June 42 i did the upgrade for Shokaku and Zuikaku. When it was finished i used the opportunity to have two fleet CVs in Japan to expand some training groups.
For doing this i transferred ALL their flight groups to Yokosuka for some turns with their resize option turned ON. During their time on land they did their standard resize at
early july. As you can see on the picture.
This must be the problem ! They did not resize aboard the CV.
The Val-Groups did not change their size, so thats probably the reason their resizing-option is still there.

Looking at this now i think it is a bug especially with the resize option completey gone.

Last turn i tried to resize these groups aboard of a other CV. Did not work.

@Michael
If you still want the turns please tell me which exactly. I saved most of them.
Keep usually one save from turn start and another from end.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 9
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/30/2013 3:31:50 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
Link with turn package sent to MichaelM. I´m curious if he can confirm my finding.

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 10
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/31/2013 9:03:34 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
Any news Michael ? Did you get the turns ?

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 11
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/31/2013 10:18:32 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8844
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
Land-based groups lose their ability to resize after the last one is completed. It is suppose to stay at that size rather than allow players to continually re-tune them.
Only ship-based groups are allowed the flexible resize after the normal ones complete as players tend to move groups around between ships and a way to resize in that case was needed in order to NOT overload the ship.


_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 12
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/31/2013 10:24:47 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8844
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

Any news Michael ? Did you get the turns ?

Just got them downloaded.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 13
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/31/2013 12:41:01 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Land-based groups lose their ability to resize after the last one is completed. It is suppose to stay at that size rather than allow players to continually re-tune them.
Only ship-based groups are allowed the flexible resize after the normal ones complete as players tend to move groups around between ships and a way to resize in that case was needed in order to NOT overload the ship.



Uhhh, so i really got this "penalty" cause i accidently allowed to resize (standard setting) while the carrier groups were stationed temporary at Yokohama ?

(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 14
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/31/2013 2:04:37 PM   
michaelm


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I'll see if there is any way for groups finishing resizing to realize that they started based on ships and keep the resize option so that they can be put back there.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 15
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 1/31/2013 2:43:14 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
Thank you Michael. Playing without new beta yet, could i do the following to avoid this happening again ?

If i have a CV based air groups close to resize and i have to move it to a air base, can i simply set the switch to "do not resize" to keep the ability for resizing ?
Later, when back on CV i would put the switch back to standard setting. Can this work ?

Second question: Can you restore the resize ability of my 4 air groups when i send you the actual turn over ?

(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 16
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 2/2/2013 6:38:16 AM   
michaelm


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If the air group is set to 'No resize' while there is still one, will keep the resizing option. I tried it with one of the groups in the save for 30 June that you sent me.


_____________________________

Michael

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Post #: 17
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 2/2/2013 7:43:31 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
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Thanks Michael. Already expected this. But can you restore the resize option for my 4 "screwed" air units ?

(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 18
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 2/2/2013 9:25:33 AM   
michaelm


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From: Sydney, Australia
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New code (1123d) will fix any ship-based group that is cv-trained or cv-training that can't resize.

In addition, moving a "never resize" cv-trained or cv-training group to a ship will reset the resize flag.

Michael

_____________________________

Michael

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Post #: 19
RE: Problem resizing some Carrier groups - 2/2/2013 10:02:29 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2083
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Thank you Michael. Sent you a mail with a unwanted side effect.
Please look at.

(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 20
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