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RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 1:37:08 AM   
parusski


Posts: 4704
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online
quote:

Hitler if he had died in 1938?after all he was Times man of the year.


Gotta love those people at TIME. At least they are consistently nutty.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to barkorn45)
Post #: 91
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 2:39:22 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

You're correct but one more thing on this subject i may have been incorrect about the ft.sumter[am currently driving a truck and don't have access to my references]but still a usa ship entered the port of a foreign country to resupply a foreign powers fort and had not asked permission for said entry and was fired upon for that reason,sounds like an unreasonable act of aggression by south carolina to me!but lets move on since facts confuse me.
what picture would history paint of Hitler if he had died in 1938?after all he was Times man of the year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
i knew i would be called a racist somehow and the dancing around comment proves it what better way to end a debate but throw in the race card
plllease


you knew it was coming sooner or later ……….let’s move this thread onto WWII this Lincoln subject isn’t going to well ,these stupid racist hillbillies just don’t get it ……….“he did what he had to do”





As Lincoln himself pointed out, Ft. Sumter was constructed with funds and materials from the USA, not from South Carolina.

I do not agree that a state is an independent country. The definition is not a trump card. Words do change their meaning. As a related example, the group advocating against passage of the constitution of the US was outraged by the supporters of the constitution calling themselves Federalists. They claimed, with some justification, that the word as it had been used in the past did not apply to the proposed "federal" government.

Anyway, since the conversation is moving on, I will say no more on this topic for now. I will continue to follow the thread and see if I have anything of interest (to me) to add. Who knows, maybe I will think of something.

(in reply to barkorn45)
Post #: 92
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 4:48:52 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 18716
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Oh yes oh yes here come the British .... I've seen better comebacks by people who have trouble putting together a three piece picture puzzle...I say it again...you English .... Not worth the time or effort in responses anymore.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Wodin who do you think the Indians took the land from? Or do you think they just suddenly appeared there? Not sure you English study any history other than your own.

warspite1

In a thread like this - with such a contentious subject line - you can allow for some moronic statements. But that one is just about the winner so far...

a) Because Wodin expressed a personal opinion (and he just happens to be English) - why the attack on the "You English"?? Totally uncalled for.

b) No we (that is we in the UK generally) do not study much in the way of history because our education system is £$%^&. And the same applies whether its UK or anyone else's history. However, our children do learn some (though its not compulsory to take the subject to GCSE).

c) Do you know what my eldest is learning in "history" at the moment? Yep, you guessed it - American Indians. %^&* me! Like we don't have any history of our own .... You %^&* Americans; can't you keep your history to yourselves *







* And that was not an ironic comment in response to rogo's nonsense in case you hadn't worked it out.



thanks Mr Warspite..


warspite1

Pathetic rogo727.

So you say "You English don't study any history other than their own". Who was it who showed an interest in this thread and asked for opinions from Americans in order to gain a better understanding of Lincoln's actions?


Edit: BTW, can anyone help me with this puzzle please? This is what it's supposed to look like but I can't get the pieces to fit





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/30/2013 5:34:56 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 93
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 8:11:43 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Wodin who do you think the Indians took the land from? Or do you think they just suddenly appeared there? Not sure you English study any history other than your own.



Really no need to start insulting other people's countries. Especially in our own little club here at Matrix. We are from different cultures but we all share a love of history. No need for insults.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 94
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 9:19:13 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7978
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Oh yes oh yes here come the British .... I've seen better comebacks by people who have trouble putting together a three piece picture puzzle...I say it again...you English .... Not worth the time or effort in responses anymore.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Wodin who do you think the Indians took the land from? Or do you think they just suddenly appeared there? Not sure you English study any history other than your own.

warspite1

In a thread like this - with such a contentious subject line - you can allow for some moronic statements. But that one is just about the winner so far...

a) Because Wodin expressed a personal opinion (and he just happens to be English) - why the attack on the "You English"?? Totally uncalled for.

b) No we (that is we in the UK generally) do not study much in the way of history because our education system is £$%^&. And the same applies whether its UK or anyone else's history. However, our children do learn some (though its not compulsory to take the subject to GCSE).

c) Do you know what my eldest is learning in "history" at the moment? Yep, you guessed it - American Indians. %^&* me! Like we don't have any history of our own .... You %^&* Americans; can't you keep your history to yourselves *







* And that was not an ironic comment in response to rogo's nonsense in case you hadn't worked it out.



thanks Mr Warspite..



Yet you still can't give us your superior knowledge of where the Indians came from..do you know more than the latest genetic and dna sampling aswell as archeological digs?


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(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 95
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 8:28:21 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
Joined: 7/24/2002
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Lincoln & his supporters were war criminals. Do not idolize him.

http://www.ncgenweb.us/transylvania/home_html/Camp-Douglas-Civil-War-Prison,-Chicago.html

quote:


Camp Douglas Civil War Prison, Chicago
"TO THE MEMORY OF THE
SIX THOUSAND SOUTHERN SOLDIERS
HERE BURIED WHO DIED IN
CAMP DOUGLAS PRISON
1862-1865"

View the Roster

* * *

Researched and edited by C. B. Pritchett

The South had Andersonville, an internationally known reminder of prison camp hardships and deaths, immortalized in song, literature, film and by many Union Monuments. The North had Camp Douglas, a little known civil war prison in Chicago that set records for prison mortality, hidden in lost and incomplete records and suppressed publicity. To the victor belongs the silence.

Andersonville is the National Prisoner of War Historical Site, with white headstones for each of the 12, 912 Union prisoners who died there with a 475 acre park and monuments erected by every Union State and the National Government. All of the main highways of South Georgia have directional signs to aid the tens of thousand who visit there yearly.

Look North to Chicago and you will find at least 6000 Confederate soldiers buried in a mass grave on one acre of land. There is only one monument to these prisoners who died, erected in 1895, 30 years after the war, by Southerners and their friends in Chicago and the North.


_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 96
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 8:30:34 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4704
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online


_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 97
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 8:33:15 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18716
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


warspite1

I just wanted to say, Good luck, we're all counting on you.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 98
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 8:36:48 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4704
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


warspite1

I just wanted to say, Good luck, we're all counting on you.


Thanks w1, I know everyone is counting on me to continue this.

By the way Mc'Collegue, do you like movies about gladiators??

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 99
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 8:37:51 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18716
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


warspite1

I just wanted to say, Good luck, we're all counting on you.


Thanks w1, I know everyone is counting on me to continue this.

By the way Mc'Collegue, do you like movies about gladiators??
warspite1

Of course. Hey parusski, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 100
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 8:43:37 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4704
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


warspite1

I just wanted to say, Good luck, we're all counting on you.


Thanks w1, I know everyone is counting on me to continue this.

By the way Mc'Collegue, do you like movies about gladiators??
warspite1

Of course. Hey parusski, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?


Why yes I have.

Hey warspite1, would you like something to read?

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 101
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 9:39:10 PM   
ezz

 

Posts: 618
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
What right did parliament have to execute the King, Charles I, appointed by God himself?
There was and still is no legal precedent for regicide.

To this day in the United kingdom families are divided by their Parliamentarian or Royalist heritage. It is unthinkable for a maiden of Oxford to ever travel to the city of York. People still talk of Naseby and Newbury and the generals who fought in those battles. In Northern towns, to this very day, no male ever has long hair. The new model army marching pike song is sung on every 20th of June in every pub in the land.. 1642 looms large in the consciousness of the United kingdom.

Actually..now I think about it..I've never ever heard anyone in England mention the English civil war. Some in Ireland, where its a bigger deal. I'd be amazed if even 5% of the nation even knew there ever was a civil war.

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 102
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 10:21:10 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7978
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Whaoh..come on now all kids in junior school are taught about the ECW. If they can't remember when their older then thats a poor show but school children are taught it.

It's not really seen as an interesting War as far as battles go. Oliver Cromwell wasn't the most interesting nor exciting person..he was a tyrant and those Puritans weren't a bundle of laughs.

War of the Roses is seen as more exciting and most people from Lancashire or Yorkshire know about the Red and White Rose etc.

Ireland are really into their history because it still resonates today.

Actually thinking about it Ezz your probably right..a vast majority of people here aren't even from the UK so it is unlikely they know about the ECW nor will they have any interest in it.

On the other hand programs like The History of Britain I think helped in educating alot of people on our history.

_____________________________

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https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame


(in reply to ezz)
Post #: 103
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 10:25:46 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4704
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Whaoh..come on now all kids in junior school are taught about the ECW. If they can't remember when their older then thats a poor show but school children are taught it.

It's not really seen as an interesting War as far as battles go. Oliver Cromwell wasn't the most interesting nor exciting person..he was a tyrant and those Puritans weren't a bundle of laughs.

War of the Roses is seen as more exciting and most people from Lancashire or Yorkshire know about the Red and White Rose etc.

Ireland are really into their history because it still resonates today.

Actually thinking about it Ezz your probably right..a vast majority of people here aren't even from the UK so it is unlikely they know about the ECW nor will they have any interest in it.

On the other hand programs like The History of Britain I think helped in educating alot of people on our history.


I learned everything I need to know about the ECW from Ambrose's Blackadder and His Role in the English Civil War!

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 104
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 10:40:57 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
I see that you had trouble with that picture puzzle . Settle down pudding pants.
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Oh yes oh yes here come the British .... I've seen better comebacks by people who have trouble putting together a three piece picture puzzle...I say it again...you English .... Not worth the time or effort in responses anymore.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Wodin who do you think the Indians took the land from? Or do you think they just suddenly appeared there? Not sure you English study any history other than your own.

warspite1

In a thread like this - with such a contentious subject line - you can allow for some moronic statements. But that one is just about the winner so far...

a) Because Wodin expressed a personal opinion (and he just happens to be English) - why the attack on the "You English"?? Totally uncalled for.

b) No we (that is we in the UK generally) do not study much in the way of history because our education system is £$%^&. And the same applies whether its UK or anyone else's history. However, our children do learn some (though its not compulsory to take the subject to GCSE).

c) Do you know what my eldest is learning in "history" at the moment? Yep, you guessed it - American Indians. %^&* me! Like we don't have any history of our own .... You %^&* Americans; can't you keep your history to yourselves *







* And that was not an ironic comment in response to rogo's nonsense in case you hadn't worked it out.



thanks Mr Warspite..


warspite1

Pathetic rogo727.

So you say "You English don't study any history other than their own". Who was it who showed an interest in this thread and asked for opinions from Americans in order to gain a better understanding of Lincoln's actions?


Edit: BTW, can anyone help me with this puzzle please? This is what it's supposed to look like but I can't get the pieces to fit







< Message edited by rogo727 -- 1/30/2013 10:44:13 PM >


_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 105
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 10:44:09 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4704
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you had trouble with that picture puzzle .
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Oh yes oh yes here come the British .... I've seen better comebacks by people who have trouble putting together a three piece picture puzzle...I say it again...you English .... Not worth the time or effort in responses anymore.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Wodin who do you think the Indians took the land from? Or do you think they just suddenly appeared there? Not sure you English study any history other than your own.

warspite1

In a thread like this - with such a contentious subject line - you can allow for some moronic statements. But that one is just about the winner so far...

a) Because Wodin expressed a personal opinion (and he just happens to be English) - why the attack on the "You English"?? Totally uncalled for.

b) No we (that is we in the UK generally) do not study much in the way of history because our education system is £$%^&. And the same applies whether its UK or anyone else's history. However, our children do learn some (though its not compulsory to take the subject to GCSE).

c) Do you know what my eldest is learning in "history" at the moment? Yep, you guessed it - American Indians. %^&* me! Like we don't have any history of our own .... You %^&* Americans; can't you keep your history to yourselves *







* And that was not an ironic comment in response to rogo's nonsense in case you hadn't worked it out.



thanks Mr Warspite..


warspite1

Pathetic rogo727.

So you say "You English don't study any history other than their own". Who was it who showed an interest in this thread and asked for opinions from Americans in order to gain a better understanding of Lincoln's actions?


Edit: BTW, can anyone help me with this puzzle please? This is what it's supposed to look like but I can't get the pieces to fit








Johnny, what can you make out of this?


_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 106
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 10:49:30 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
I can't make it out... You know us Americans only see what we want too. I don't have a PHD in BS like most people on here. Maybe the great Oz err wodin can step in... Or maybe her sister waspit.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 107
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 10:52:19 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4704
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I can't make it out... You know us Americans only see what we want too. I don't have a PHD in BS like most people on here. Maybe the great Oz err wodin can step in... Or maybe her sister waspit.


HA. You shut me down perfectly. Waspit indeed.

But you might want to Google "Johnny, what can you make out of this?" just for a point of reference.

< Message edited by parusski -- 1/30/2013 10:53:06 PM >


_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 108
RE: lincoln - 1/30/2013 11:36:36 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7978
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I can't make it out... You know us Americans only see what we want too. I don't have a PHD in BS like most people on here. Maybe the great Oz err wodin can step in... Or maybe her sister waspit.



What is your problem? Why so hostile..I really can't remember what I have done to you to warrant all this.

Insult me..insult Warspite..what about the others who have come in and told you to back off?

It sounds like your jealous of something...god knows what.

Quite amusing..you have this disdain for the British..yet you watch Downton Abbey..

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/30/2013 11:46:16 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 109
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 12:15:56 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
Peace . I'm out.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 110
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 12:29:16 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7978
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Peace back. By the way the puzzle looks like a Stegosaurus..I think.

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/31/2013 12:30:12 AM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 111
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 12:50:28 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 1957
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline
Wow... I find this thread to be terribly depressing :(

May I suggest you all go read some Harry Turtledove alternative history novels about a divided America following the ACW. He's got a whole series based on that scenario. I haven't read this series though I like some of his other stuff. I do remember from various book reviews and reader comments on Amazon that the South becomes a fascist dictatorship and we end up with the Confederate States allying with Hitler (I think).

As for secession in today's world, I would predict that if AZ secedes, we would turn into some form of dictatorship with a "whites only" citizenship courtesy of Gov Jan Brewer, Sheriff "Joe" Arpaio, and our GOP dominated legislature. Not a scenario I want to contemplate, especially since there is no chance for me to move away.

I can't see the balkanization of America as being a good thing despite the fantasies some people seem to hold about the possibility. Anyway, in another 2 to 4 years Arizona is going to turn Blue (along with Texas)... problem solved.

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

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(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 112
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 3:10:23 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Wow... I find this thread to be terribly depressing :(

May I suggest you all go read some Harry Turtledove alternative history novels about a divided America following the ACW. He's got a whole series based on that scenario. I haven't read this series though I like some of his other stuff. I do remember from various book reviews and reader comments on Amazon that the South becomes a fascist dictatorship and we end up with the Confederate States allying with Hitler (I think).



On the Turtledove series, it is actually the CSA becomes the analog of Nazi Germany, with their very own version of Hitler running things. In those novels, the Kaiser's Germany, AH, Turkey, and USA beat Russia, UK, CSA, Japan, and France in the Great War. I liked the series, but it gets rather long-winded sometimes.

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 113
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 3:17:18 AM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline
MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! NOW IF ONLY I CAN PUT THIS WONDERFULLY EVIL PLAN TO WORK I WILL COME OUT ON TOP AS LONG AS WE'VE BEEN DEFEATED!

quote:

Former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm;

HOW TO DESTROY AMERICA

I have a secret plan to destroy America. If you believe, as many do, that America is too smug, too white bread, too self-satisfied, too rich, let’s destroy America. It is not that hard to do. History shows that nations are more fragile than their citizens think. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and they all fall, and that “an autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.” Here is my plan:

We must first make America a bilingual-bicultural country. History shows, in my opinion, that no nation can survive the tension, conflict and antagonism of two competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. One scholar, Seymour Martin Lipset, put it this way: “The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension and tragedy. Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon – all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with its Basques, Bretons and Corsicans.”

I would then invent “multiculturalism” and encourage immigrants to maintain their own culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal: that there are no cultural differences that are important. I would declare it an article of faith that the black and Hispanic dropout rate is only due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out-of-bounds.

We can make the United States a “Hispanic Quebec” without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently, “The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved, not by tolerance, but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically, and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.” I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with a salad bowl metaphor. It is important to insure that we have various cultural sub-groups living in America reinforcing their differences, rather than Americans emphasizing their similarities.

Having done all this, I would make our fastest-growing demographic group the least educated – I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50 percent dropout rate from school.

I would then get the big foundations and big business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of victimology. I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was all the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population.

I would establish dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would “celebrate diversity.” “Diversity” is a wonderfully seductive word. It stresses differences rather than commonalities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other – that is, when they are not killing each other. A “diverse,” peaceful or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together, and we can take advantage of this myopia.

Look at the ancient Greeks. Dorf’s “World History” tells us: “The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshiped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic Games in honor of Zeus, and all Greeks venerated the shrine of Apollo at Delphi. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet, all of these bonds together were not strong enough to overcome two factors … (local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions …)” If we can put the emphasis on the “pluribus,” instead of the “unum,” we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo.

Then I would place all these subjects off-limits – make it taboo to talk about. I would find a word similar to “heretic” in the 16th century – that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like “racist”, “xenophobe” halt argument and conversation. Having made America a bilingual-bicultural country, having established multiculturalism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of “victimology,” I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra – “because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good.” I would make every individual immigrant sympatric and ignore the cumulative impact.

Lastly, I would censor Victor Davis Hanson’s book “Mexifornia” – this book is dangerous; it exposes my plan to destroy America. So please, please – if you feel that America deserves to be destroyed – please, please – don’t buy this book! This guy is on to my plan.

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.” – Noam Chomsky, American linguist and U.S. media and foreign policy critic.


_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 114
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 6:06:35 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 18716
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you had trouble with that picture puzzle .
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Oh yes oh yes here come the British .... I've seen better comebacks by people who have trouble putting together a three piece picture puzzle...I say it again...you English .... Not worth the time or effort in responses anymore.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Wodin who do you think the Indians took the land from? Or do you think they just suddenly appeared there? Not sure you English study any history other than your own.

warspite1

In a thread like this - with such a contentious subject line - you can allow for some moronic statements. But that one is just about the winner so far...

a) Because Wodin expressed a personal opinion (and he just happens to be English) - why the attack on the "You English"?? Totally uncalled for.

b) No we (that is we in the UK generally) do not study much in the way of history because our education system is £$%^&. And the same applies whether its UK or anyone else's history. However, our children do learn some (though its not compulsory to take the subject to GCSE).

c) Do you know what my eldest is learning in "history" at the moment? Yep, you guessed it - American Indians. %^&* me! Like we don't have any history of our own .... You %^&* Americans; can't you keep your history to yourselves *







* And that was not an ironic comment in response to rogo's nonsense in case you hadn't worked it out.



thanks Mr Warspite..


warspite1

Pathetic rogo727.

So you say "You English don't study any history other than their own". Who was it who showed an interest in this thread and asked for opinions from Americans in order to gain a better understanding of Lincoln's actions?


Edit: BTW, can anyone help me with this puzzle please? This is what it's supposed to look like but I can't get the pieces to fit








Johnny, what can you make out of this?

warspite1

This? Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl... BUT one thing I can't make is a bloody stegosaurus!! These 3-piece puzzles are really challenging

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 115
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 6:25:15 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 18716
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I can't make it out... You know us Americans only see what we want too. I don't have a PHD in BS like most people on here. Maybe the great Oz err wodin can step in... Or maybe her sister waspit.
warspite1

You really are a moron aren't you rogo727??

So now you've gone from insulting - for no reason - the English/British (you probably don't know the difference) to "Most people on here". Well I've never done a count but while I suspect the majority are American, there are plenty of other nationalities here too, so you are covering all the bases nicely in your scattergun approach to being insulting.

Then there's the paranoid "You know us Americans only see what we want too". What the %^&* does that mean??? Oh and of course the, by now de rigueur, hilarious take on my login name. How long did it take for you to think of waspit? Did you get help from parusski? Hilarious...

You babbled on in post 87 "Not worth the time or effort in responses anymore."
And then droned on in post 110 "Peace. I'm out."

Let's hope you mean it this time and you stop embarrassing yourself further.

OR you could do what you should have done at the start, simply apologise and stop digging yourself further into trouble with your incoherent waffle.....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 116
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 6:36:55 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Peace back. By the way the puzzle looks like a Stegosaurus..I think.




Yup. Been a dinosaur fan since I was a little boy. Wait, my wife says I'm still a little boy.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 117
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 11:43:46 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7978
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I can't make it out... You know us Americans only see what we want too. I don't have a PHD in BS like most people on here. Maybe the great Oz err wodin can step in... Or maybe her sister waspit.
warspite1

You really are a moron aren't you rogo727??

So now you've gone from insulting - for no reason - the English/British (you probably don't know the difference) to "Most people on here". Well I've never done a count but while I suspect the majority are American, there are plenty of other nationalities here too, so you are covering all the bases nicely in your scattergun approach to being insulting.

Then there's the paranoid "You know us Americans only see what we want too". What the %^&* does that mean??? Oh and of course the, by now de rigueur, hilarious take on my login name. How long did it take for you to think of waspit? Did you get help from parusski? Hilarious...

You babbled on in post 87 "Not worth the time or effort in responses anymore."
And then droned on in post 110 "Peace. I'm out."

Let's hope you mean it this time and you stop embarrassing yourself further.

OR you could do what you should have done at the start, simply apologise and stop digging yourself further into trouble with your incoherent waffle.....


What amazes me is he still hasn't said where Native Americans came from and who was in the Americas before them..I believe it was Giant Bird like creatures..well going right back anyway.

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 118
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 12:36:29 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 638
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline
[aside]

Isn't it a little odd that the English Civil War, is usually called just that THE English Civil war, as if it was the only one.

The War of the Roses, go back to Empress Matilda, and then even earlier in the House of Wessex, forward to various fights between the Plantagenets and then right through to the Glorious Revolution.
I mean we had a bunch of them.

It just strikes me as odd.


[end aside]

please resume your back and forth.


(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 119
RE: lincoln - 1/31/2013 1:00:18 PM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
According to Ambrose the American Indian in fact originated from the North American Atlantian. . Ambrose is awesome. I have his entire collection.

< Message edited by ilovestrategy -- 1/31/2013 1:20:51 PM >


_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to catwhoorg)
Post #: 120
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