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We Will Fight and Die Here

 
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We Will Fight and Die Here - 1/27/2013 4:43:39 PM   
Yakstock

 

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OK - on to the next AAR. This one I hope to do a little more attacking. I have not played it yet and I am still just researching the battle (something I like to do before playing). This little teaser is a write-up I found on the web of the battle from the American side. It is broader than just this battle. I hope it gets folks interested in the AAR and also sets the context of the battle. Enjoy for now.

Web View:

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/n8tqhcm2q6awp15/We%2520will%2520die%2520here.mht&b=clk:53197292:15446188990818715721:1124:558&z=AABa8KhTJU8jZw_8InMSXBaW-hO34DkbcGbT_GoDzoGpIA

PowerPoint Show:

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/w0f9zzhkwm9t3gg/We%2520will%2520die%2520here.ppsx&b=clk:53197292:16731768434940137727:1124:558&z=AACbBkdjG9DW-CCtizt8FmMMwNmSjsLa_gZXR3nPgajblQ
Post #: 1
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 1/31/2013 1:35:23 AM   
Yakstock

 

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Here is installment one - preparation for battle...

Web View:

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/cphja3tnx12z07k/We%2520will%2520die%2520here-2.mht&b=clk:53197292:9683401694147300699:1124:558&z=AACpke3DRLxJniOa0B2yVvFk9g4J6hwk1RjUvPvKK2C6gQ

PowerPoint Show

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/vz21a6cd5375a59/We%2520will%2520die%2520here-2.ppsx&b=clk:53197292:3847805110503136058:1124:558&z=AABZ-TXjQB6oOqKM-k5WmF_M4cYXvfN3yk3YLlIgvgMDzg

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Post #: 2
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 1/31/2013 6:54:44 PM   
phoenix

 

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Great stuff Yakstock. Thanks so much for all the info. Can't wait to see how you deal with the challenge. I've started this great scenario a couple of times recently (as Axis) and have not been able to do very well (though I did encounter a bug which messed it up for me a bit....). I assume you won't go for a frontal assault on the Dom? In which case you'll have more ambitious flanking plans - as I always have - but might find if you're as crap a player as I am, that getting round the Dom in numbers isn't so easy, because, as ever, the Allies - after an initial delay - have seemingly masses of men and materiel coming in. My plan has always been to surround the Dom, cut-off the reinforcement points behind it (and get into Butgenbach in the process - the main entry point for Allied reinforcements is just north of Butgenbach), hold the Morschheck crossroads, thinking that if I could take and hold Butgenback and the Dom, plus kill a quantity of the opposition, then that would be enough for a marginal victory. I have never aimed higher than that and never got better than a draw. Looking forward to your account. Thanks again.

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Post #: 3
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/1/2013 12:05:49 PM   
Kronolog

 

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Very nice presentation. I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment.

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RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/1/2013 9:45:47 PM   
Yakstock

 

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Phoenix,

This is a tough one. So far I only have played through day one (and will try to post it this weekend). I can assure you I am probably doing as good (or as bad) as you have done. I reached none of my personal objectives on day one and will be thinking a bit before plowing ahead with day two. As always, after playing once I will probably have a host of ideas about the next time, but that is what makes the first time playing a scenario so much fun.

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Post #: 5
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 1:37:39 AM   
Yakstock

 

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Day one-two

Web View:

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/6o722b57gu2vpxd/We%2520will%2520die%2520here-Day%2520one-two.mht&b=clk:53197292:5802225395243372647:1124:558&z=AAA1-UswoGi1ZVylBZ_X50BL69tI17xGjYDJ7dMmNGlB7g

PowerPoint Show:

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/4hzsorkwusi33g9/We%2520will%2520die%2520here-Day%2520one-two.ppsx&b=clk:53197292:13071637009070247576:1124:558&z=AADwymREgrhY0DAgofVTM-536YRWMX-7LHlrz6NsAx93Gw

Enjoy

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Post #: 6
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 2:35:15 AM   
Qbec


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Very nice AAR Yakstock. J'adore .....!

André

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Post #: 7
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 4:20:15 AM   
**budd**


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From: Tacoma
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outstanding, looking forward to the next part. Thx for putting this together.

p.s. i think your too spread out....it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

< Message edited by **budd** -- 2/2/2013 4:21:43 AM >


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Qbec)
Post #: 8
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 8:30:32 AM   
phoenix

 

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Fascinating. Thanks. I saw someone else do that decoy attack to the north of the line in an AAR here, I think. I think it did, in fact, draw quite a concentration to that corner, just not the arty. I had similar arty probs on the Dom (as did the Axis in reality, as you know - in fact, that's the major factor in these Bulge battles, is it not - the allied arty superiority?). The Dom is just a little hill, by the way, not a town. There were a couple of farmhouses there in 1944, now there's a farm machine big shed complex (check it out on google earth with the excellent BFTB battlefield overlays - if you haven't already - there used to be a photo on google earth of the Big Red 1 memorial at the roundabout on the top of the Dom, but it's been removed (maybe the farm machine factory didn't like it or something) - you can still see the small obelisk there though, even without the photo).

Was it misty on the Dom, by the way? As it was in reality? That was a major factor I think in the Allies beating off the early attacks as the Axis tanks couldn't engage long range and were very vulnerable to bazooka fire etc.

I don't know what you're going to do now. I would be tempted to send all those paras into Butgenbach (a major objective) leaving just a blocking force at Ober- . But Butgenbach is no doubt thick with troops by now. I think - with respect - that your decision to not attack in force (what force you had, at any rate) during the first night was really a mistake (though realistic, in terms of German doctrine back then, perhaps). Or you could have at least moved nearly all of your force into blocking positions behind the Dom under cover of darkness.

Still, maybe it won't make a diff. You need to get Butgenbach as well, I think, to do better than a marginal defeat, or draw. But you'd be in good historical company if you achieved even a marginal defeat, remember. This was certainly a major defeat for the Axis in RL, I think.

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RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 2:06:11 PM   
Yakstock

 

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Phoenix - thanks for the info - I will definitely check it out. I go back and forth on the first night activity - I am one to be swayed by what I think matches reality and try not to push too hard - I also think the game punishes atypical activity fairly well. How do you find the overlays on google earth? It is always foggy and muddy in this scenario. I will be tackling day three sometime today and post as soon as I can. It is good to take a break and look at the situation periodically and reassess your strategy - so I will also do that today.

Budd - I think you are right and will factor in your advice - thx


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Post #: 10
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 2:09:06 PM   
Yakstock

 

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found this...


quote:

"The tour features battle locations with descriptions, in-game map
overlays over the present-day satellite terrain, battle lines with
German counterattack objectives, and more!

Getting the Battlefield Tour working is quick and easy:

1. Download and install Google Earth.
2. Download the Battlefield Tour. (70MB)
3. Double click the Battlefield Tour (which is named
“BattlesfromtheBulge-BattlefieldTour.kmz”).
4. Google Earth will automatically open and load the Battlefield
Tour.
5. The “Temporary Places” list located at the “Places” pane in the top
left of the screen will list all battles, map overlays, battle lines,
and other features which can be toggled on and off. Note that
selecting to display all of the tour’s features at once may cause
Google Earth to respond very slowly."

Google Earth Tour:

ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/BattlesFromTheBulge/BattlesfromtheBulge-BattlefieldTour.kmz

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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Post #: 11
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 2:50:46 PM   
phoenix

 

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Yes. That's it. The google earth tour. You can switch the overlays on and off. Helps you see the battlefield very clearly. I usually change google earth options, to use anti-aliasing etc, but also to exaggerate the terrain a little, to say 1.2. That way you can see it better.

If that link doesn't work try - http://www.matrixgames.com/products/377/downloads/ - and look for the tour there (this is the BFTB downloads page)

< Message edited by phoenix -- 2/2/2013 2:51:31 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 4:49:35 PM   
**budd**


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are you saying that you can switch this off and on during play. This sounds awesome. Can anyone post a screen of this in use, please.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 13
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/2/2013 5:08:02 PM   
phoenix

 

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It's in google earth. Not in the game. There are overlay maps of the BFTB battlefields to go in google earth (via the above-mentioned battlefield tour). You can thus see the terrain clearly (by using google earth - the game remains unchanged). You can also, incidentally, see how fantastic the maps are.

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Post #: 14
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/3/2013 2:07:27 AM   
Yakstock

 

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Day three - what a day:

Web:

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/y7p66ywrleah0fo/We%2520will%2520die%2520here-Day%2520three.mht&b=clk:53197292:9855346655977256566:1124:558&z=AABhowY-G8BK0MGtVDjus8Lplz1E4tjPVVTxTGECJRrr5A

PowerPoint Show:

https://www.dropbox.com/el/?r=/s/ke4wg50twjh0w0s/We%2520will%2520die%2520here-Day%2520three.ppsx&b=clk:53197292:5184255605834950393:1124:558&z=AADunPj2G7dAS6SIVU76aqDyTXDYr2ujE_7LKAMFH_p9Rw

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Post #: 15
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/3/2013 12:57:05 PM   
phoenix

 

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Interesting. Seems like a good day for you, no? Can't recall - do you have more reinforcements coming, or is that it?

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Post #: 16
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/3/2013 1:27:03 PM   
Yakstock

 

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Very good day - victory meter is tilting positive. I am looking at a few more replacements coming in (27 Fusilier). Just need to not go backwards on day four:







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Yakstock -- 2/5/2013 1:14:21 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/3/2013 4:46:36 PM   
**budd**


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nice. looking forward to see what the AI does here. 2 gaps in your lines, the big gap and the smaller gap between your units on the right. Whats the intel on those enemy units in the gaps, in supply? fighting shape? Where does the AI draw supply from? Do you know where the AI reinforcements come from? where are your supply points, is it just one point on the right of the map or do you draw from the bottom also..Could you mix in a few more broad shots during your AAR, if it wouldn't be too much trouble. Great AAR, looking forward to the next part.


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Yakstock)
Post #: 18
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/4/2013 5:54:21 PM   
wodin


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Just looking you get the 2nd and 3rd battalion 5th FJ come in twice...

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame


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RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/5/2013 1:09:56 PM   
Yakstock

 

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Woden - my mistake on the copy and paste of the OOB - game is right, user error! :) (fixed it)

< Message edited by Yakstock -- 2/5/2013 1:14:43 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/7/2013 12:48:19 AM   
Yakstock

 

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Day Four:

Web:

https://www.dropbox.com/l/gTSeWvuqPfyVEfyU

PowerPoint Show:

https://www.dropbox.com/l/zPUykaFDBYzrtbwF

< Message edited by Yakstock -- 2/7/2013 3:15:00 AM >

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RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/7/2013 4:25:30 AM   
**budd**


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great read, the AI should of pushed more from the north,kept the pressure on you, maybe they will on day 5. Is your left in danger of getting their supply cut off? I guess its so close to the end that your on hand supply should carry you through. Good stuff, thx for doing the AAR, Looking forward to the finish. Hoping to dip into the demo this weekend, went through all the youtube vids and read the manual....there 's alot more cool sh$t in the game since HTTR. The video's are really well done. I hope they get the patch done and COTA out the door so i can scoop up the whole bundle at once.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Yakstock)
Post #: 22
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/9/2013 2:53:31 PM   
Yakstock

 

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The final day...

Web:

https://www.dropbox.com/l/yrUXrymKkVjzgDSZ

PowerPoint Show:

https://www.dropbox.com/l/mbeeinaSafMKOtLS

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Post #: 23
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/9/2013 4:27:08 PM   
Ramses


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Thanks for posting Yakstock, I enjoy your AAR's very much; they're also very helpful.

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RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/9/2013 5:02:47 PM   
**budd**


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From: Tacoma
Status: online
great AAR thx for sharing. I was hoping the AI would come down from the north and contest on the left more, couldn't really tell what kind of units the AI had up north. Did they just stay put all scenario? Thx again, great presentation.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Ramses)
Post #: 25
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/9/2013 5:11:26 PM   
Yakstock

 

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budd - they were not there until late (at least not that I saw), but I did not see them move once they appeared. Had the units that cut Oberweywertz off and the units in the north pushed in and attacked the objective I probably would have lost it. I partially decided I needed to attack Butgenbach just in case I lost this objective. But in the end they did not attack.



Thanks for the feedback Ramses

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Post #: 26
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/9/2013 6:32:30 PM   
**budd**


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online
I believe you had some weak intel that they were there day 3 and i believe better intel on day 4 about the large mass of units up north. They sure could of made your life interesting and put to you several interesting command choices. Wonder what would of happened if the scenario was a wee bit longer. I know how long it takes too put an AAR together especially one as well done as yours, thx.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Yakstock)
Post #: 27
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/10/2013 1:30:51 PM   
phoenix

 

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Fantastic AAR Yakstock. Thanks so much for putting all the effort into it. And a great fight, I thought. I thought you did a first rate job. It all seemed much more organised and deliberate than all my efforts. I just played through and also got a marginal victory - screenshot below. It looks very different to yours, interestingly. Mine looks much messier. Hard not to think that that's because you really did control things and plan carefully and deliberately. I was more slapdash. You get out what you put in.....

My basic plan was to sieze the Faymonville and Oberweywertz intersections with ALL my starting forces (plus the first para reinforcements). I did this during the first night. Then, as reinforcements came in I went for Butgenbach and the Dom. For maybe a day and half I had full control of Butgenbach, the Dom and Oberweywertz, but, as you see, I still got less vic points and still only scored a marginal vic. One factor was that for all of the last 30 hours or so I could hardly do anything because my troops were all totally exhausted. Hardly any of my orders were actioned - they just couldn't move! I think you shepherded your resources much better than this and still had some fighting potential to draw on in the last stages. Note my casualty rates are significantly higher than yours - this is probably because of that.

I think I'll play it through again and try to be as deliberate and careful as you were. I think I could probably hold onto the three objectives with more care and more judicious use of arty, and I'm sure this would be enough to score a full victory.

Brilliant AAR. I really appreciated it. Look forward to your next fight!

PS: Do you have some program you use to speed up all the cutting and pasting?




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 28
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/10/2013 6:09:59 PM   
Yakstock

 

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Phoenix - thanks for the comments - appreciate it. I use MWSnap3 software to take the screen shots and then just use PowerPoint to modify the pictures. What I love about this game it the re-playability - there are so many ways to approach a battle. I always like the first match the best, before you know anything about the enemy plans.

After playing once I think I would try to; 1) place a screening force to the south-east of the Dom Butgenbach objective and move all your forces, including the airborne to the Oberweywertz objective and then 2) attack Butgenbach from the rear in a way that would cut off all the enemy units to the east of Butgenbach and finally 3) eliminate the units cut off if time remains. Would be interesting to try this. I think it is pretty close to your approach as I see it above.

I do find that if I take the time to develop an AAR I am more thoughtful about the battle playing out.

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Post #: 29
RE: We Will Fight and Die Here - 2/10/2013 6:21:21 PM   
phoenix

 

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I think the thing I most like about this game (aside from it being the ONLY game to have a proper AI opponent and proper friendly AI, and apart from all the other great things...) is the way it takes you to the actual history. Can't wait to take a little trip down the road (I'm in Brussels) and look at Butgenbach and surrounds, now that I've struggled with the map. The maps are astoundingly good in this game. Each battle I play has me reading up the history, looking at as much info as I can about the RL battle, scrutinising google earth, and if possible visiting the site. Luckily all the sites for BFTB and HTTR are close enough for a day trip. I can see some holidays to Greece once I get back into the COTA conversion....

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Post #: 30
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