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RE: Women In the Infantry

 
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RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/4/2013 6:37:18 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Try this

First Pullups, Then Combat, Marines Say

I think this follows my own thinking on the issue.

And, for the record, we are not "baby machines" designed to stay at home and service our husbands as some here seem to be advocating. Yes, it is noble and important to be a mother and lifebringer, but to define the role of women in this narrow view is archaic and wrong.
warspite1

To be fair no one has said they are "baby machines" much less "designed to stay at home and service our husbands". The fact that some of us do not like the thought of women in frontline combat units does not automatically make us cave men.

_____________________________

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Post #: 151
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/4/2013 10:27:13 AM   
MrRoadrunner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Try this

First Pullups, Then Combat, Marines Say

I think this follows my own thinking on the issue.

And, for the record, we are not "baby machines" designed to stay at home and service our husbands as some here seem to be advocating. Yes, it is noble and important to be a mother and lifebringer, but to define the role of women in this narrow view is archaic and wrong.


Try this, from the link you provided:

A) "the Army has no immediate plans to change its sex-adjusted recruitment and annual fitness tests, even though the Marine Corps, which tenaciously promotes itself as the most hard-bodied service, has started to toughen up its standards for women."

Why did they have to "start"? Because they did not in the past?

B) "even for the pull-ups, the Marines are still making some exceptions. To get a perfect grade, women will have to do only 8, compared with the 20 required for men."

Women are not supposed to meet the men's standard. Even if going into combat?

C) "an advocacy group that worked to end the female combat ban, acknowledged the physiological differences between men and women, but said they were overstated. “There are lots of men who don’t have the same muscle mass as other men,” he said. “There is physical diversity regardless of gender.”"

I'm so glad advocacy groups exist. Not!

D) "A 17- to 26-year-old man in the Army has to run two miles in 15 minutes, 54 seconds or less and do at least 42 push-ups; a woman in the same age group has to run two miles in 18 minutes, 54 seconds or less and do at least 19 push-ups."

Oops! Hey boys you want women in your unit because they cannot run as fast. You'll have to slow down so that they can keep up?

It is what I said since the beginning. Women are not made to meet the standards that men meet. In combat failing to keep up can get someone else killed. In the military is fine by me. In combat is not.

Lastly, the "baby machine" comment was condescending and was not even part of the argument. Why put it in? (And, don't say you were just responding to another persons post.)

RR

_____________________________

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(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 152
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/4/2013 3:59:08 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4591
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Try this

First Pullups, Then Combat, Marines Say

I think this follows my own thinking on the issue.

And, for the record, we are not "baby machines" designed to stay at home and service our husbands as some here seem to be advocating. Yes, it is noble and important to be a mother and lifebringer, but to define the role of women in this narrow view is archaic and wrong.
warspite1

To be fair no one has said they are "baby machines" much less "designed to stay at home and service our husbands". The fact that some of us do not like the thought of women in frontline combat units does not automatically make us cave men.


While I have never said such a thing myself, women I know(wife and daughter included) much prefer to be stay at home wives/moms(when possible). I have said before that I take a big cue from the numerous women in my sphere of existence. But the views of women who oppose combat, and other l**t wing ideas, are usually ignored and sometimes insulted. ODD type of inclusiveness, don't you think?

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 153
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/4/2013 11:56:33 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2816
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Try this

First Pullups, Then Combat, Marines Say

I think this follows my own thinking on the issue.

And, for the record, we are not "baby machines" designed to stay at home and service our husbands as some here seem to be advocating. Yes, it is noble and important to be a mother and lifebringer, but to define the role of women in this narrow view is archaic and wrong.


lmao.............where the hell did that come from ?


(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 154
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 12:06:12 AM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 910
Joined: 10/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Try this

First Pullups, Then Combat, Marines Say

I think this follows my own thinking on the issue.

And, for the record, we are not "baby machines" designed to stay at home and service our husbands as some here seem to be advocating. Yes, it is noble and important to be a mother and lifebringer, but to define the role of women in this narrow view is archaic and wrong.


lmao.............where the hell did that come from ?




When in doubt or fear for being caught in something, toss in a flashbang?
Just another rabbit trail to lead off topic?

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 155
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 12:08:07 AM   
rogo727


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This person said she won't let her grand kids play football because its to dangerous . Good grief really??? Oh my I may post this on YouTube...
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Try this

First Pullups, Then Combat, Marines Say

I think this follows my own thinking on the issue.

And, for the record, we are not "baby machines" designed to stay at home and service our husbands as some here seem to be advocating. Yes, it is noble and important to be a mother and lifebringer, but to define the role of women in this narrow view is archaic and wrong.



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
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Post #: 156
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 1:58:46 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 2484
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From: Southern Missouri
Status: online
What have we become that we would throw our women into the cauldron?

If they want to see how women will do, they can always assemble an all women unit and put them in direct combat duty against the taliban right now.

The part that bothers me the most is that they didn't say they were doing this to increase combat effectiveness, which is the only goal they should be after.

Period.

The reason you don't see women in direct offensive combat is the same reason you don't see women as bouncers at nightclubs.

Maybe someone already stated this but I really don't feel like reading through 6 pages. Lazy? A little.

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 2/5/2013 1:59:29 AM >


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Post #: 157
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 2:04:06 AM   
rogo727


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I often wondered what would have happened in the Germans deployed woman on the front lines as the Russians did.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

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Post #: 158
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 2:10:45 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


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From: Southern Missouri
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I often wondered what would have happened in the Germans deployed woman on the front lines as the Russians did.



Corporal hitler would have lost power very quickly. Of course he didn't mind sending little children to their death amid hopeless circumstances. This photo still haunts me.

_____________________________

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Post #: 159
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 2:16:36 AM   
rogo727


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I don't know about losing power quickly but I agree he had no second thoughts about sending children into battle. I often wondered how many of those boys in the pic survived the war.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

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Post #: 160
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 2:27:13 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 2484
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: online
Let me rephrase that. The push-back would have been so hard imo that he would have immediately rescinded the order.

Especially early to mid war.

Your thoughts?

Edit: Of course that really wasn't rephrased at all. Just thought out a little more.

Never really gave it much thought before.

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 2/5/2013 2:35:18 AM >


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Post #: 161
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 2:36:25 AM   
rogo727


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In the early part up to June 22nd 1941there was no need to deploy woman. By spring 1942 they would have made a difference on the eastern front. I think the nazis would have suppressed the causalties that went out to the public. I remember reading a soviet historian saying once that soviet woman equaled something like six army corps. They were mixed in with the men but no doubt helped defeat the nazies

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

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Post #: 162
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 2:51:06 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


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Hmmm. Actually a very interesting question. I don't think you can hide those casualties for very long, especially when you are talking about the wives and daughters of the servicemen. Russia was fighting for their survival and the soviets considered their 'citizens' as mere cattle.

Just look how they treated their own POW's at the end of the war.

If America were invaded and the situation dire, well, I just don't know.

Would defeat be better or worse than the wholesale slaughter of our women citizens?



_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

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Post #: 163
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 3:09:07 AM   
rogo727


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True. Germany recovered her population quickly by keeping the woman at home. I don't think the soviets ever truly recovered hers.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 164
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 3:17:05 AM   
t001001001

 

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I've been outfought by women I'm not worried about their will.

I'm worried about logistics. Not in theater overall, but if a unit is cut off; how much shot and powder will be displaced by maxi pads. I'm thinking like an amateur.




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Post #: 165
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 3:35:13 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 2484
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: t001001001

I've been outfought by women I'm not worried about their will.

I'm worried about logistics. Not in theater overall, but if a unit is cut off; how much shot and powder will be displaced by maxi pads. I'm thinking like an amateur.



Not knowing much about all that stuff I'd still have to say negligible. Is it worth it and is this what we want as a nation? Those are the questions.

Around here we still open the doors for women and the elderly. When I was in Chicago, I hurried and opened a door for a lady entering a convenience store. She thanked me with a dirty look and said 'My arms aren't broken'.

Her husband must be a lucky woman.

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to t001001001)
Post #: 166
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 6:02:05 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 1894
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From: Snowflake, Arizona
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Guys, have I ever in this thread advocated weaker standards for women? I think I've been upfront that if a woman wants to be in combat they should meet all standards necessary to do the job. The standards should be relevant though and equally applied.

Someone commented about women just wanting to earn a Combat Infantry Badge... yea, the ticket to advancement if they want a military career. Can't blame them.

Sorry about the "baby machine" quote, it shouldn't have been a quote as no one said that, I think it was Steiner set me off on that one and I over-reacted with that response.

In the recent news... Minnesota woman goes to Canada to enlist, serving in the infantry in Afghanistan combat. In another case, American Jewish woman goes to Israel and is now serving in an all-female combat Battalion patrolling the Sinai border. Every other army in Europe except Britain allows women in combat units with no problems.

The logistics of tampons and maxi-pads can be resolved, I'm sure. All these other nations have managed and our Nato allies have been in combat with us in Afghanistan since the beginning so they aren't just a peacetime army with women.

Time will tell, but I think the Military seems to be taking this in stride from the articles I've read and aren't freaking out over it. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I salute those young women who want to take this final step towards equality in the military and wish them well. It's not something I would want to do though.

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

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Post #: 167
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 6:02:48 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 1894
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From: Snowflake, Arizona
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I think I'll shut up and go away for awhile now

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Post #: 168
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 1:13:34 PM   
rogo727


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I have no doubt if America would be invaded that there would be a lot of very fine woman on the front lines. Remember 911 and the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania ? It was a woman leading the charge into the cockpit to down the plane. The voice recording still haunts me today.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Hmmm. Actually a very interesting question. I don't think you can hide those casualties for very long, especially when you are talking about the wives and daughters of the servicemen. Russia was fighting for their survival and the soviets considered their 'citizens' as mere cattle.

Just look how they treated their own POW's at the end of the war.

If America were invaded and the situation dire, well, I just don't know.

Would defeat be better or worse than the wholesale slaughter of our women citizens?





_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 169
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/5/2013 11:42:31 PM   
Titanwarrior89


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Well, well I would just have to say, well huh....hmmm I("cough")would agree with you. I think we were little hard on you.........OK Everybody........Group Hug with Rhonda.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Guys, have I ever in this thread advocated weaker standards for women? I think I've been upfront that if a woman wants to be in combat they should meet all standards necessary to do the job. The standards should be relevant though and equally applied.

Someone commented about women just wanting to earn a Combat Infantry Badge... yea, the ticket to advancement if they want a military career. Can't blame them.

Sorry about the "baby machine" quote, it shouldn't have been a quote as no one said that, I think it was Steiner set me off on that one and I over-reacted with that response.

In the recent news... Minnesota woman goes to Canada to enlist, serving in the infantry in Afghanistan combat. In another case, American Jewish woman goes to Israel and is now serving in an all-female combat Battalion patrolling the Sinai border. Every other army in Europe except Britain allows women in combat units with no problems.

The logistics of tampons and maxi-pads can be resolved, I'm sure. All these other nations have managed and our Nato allies have been in combat with us in Afghanistan since the beginning so they aren't just a peacetime army with women.

Time will tell, but I think the Military seems to be taking this in stride from the articles I've read and aren't freaking out over it. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I salute those young women who want to take this final step towards equality in the military and wish them well. It's not something I would want to do though.



_____________________________

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Post #: 170
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 4:05:55 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 1894
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Well, well I would just have to say, well huh....hmmm I("cough")would agree with you. I think we were little hard on you.........OK Everybody........Group Hug with Rhonda.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Guys, have I ever in this thread advocated weaker standards for women? I think I've been upfront that if a woman wants to be in combat they should meet all standards necessary to do the job. The standards should be relevant though and equally applied.

Someone commented about women just wanting to earn a Combat Infantry Badge... yea, the ticket to advancement if they want a military career. Can't blame them.

Sorry about the "baby machine" quote, it shouldn't have been a quote as no one said that, I think it was Steiner set me off on that one and I over-reacted with that response.

In the recent news... Minnesota woman goes to Canada to enlist, serving in the infantry in Afghanistan combat. In another case, American Jewish woman goes to Israel and is now serving in an all-female combat Battalion patrolling the Sinai border. Every other army in Europe except Britain allows women in combat units with no problems.

The logistics of tampons and maxi-pads can be resolved, I'm sure. All these other nations have managed and our Nato allies have been in combat with us in Afghanistan since the beginning so they aren't just a peacetime army with women.

Time will tell, but I think the Military seems to be taking this in stride from the articles I've read and aren't freaking out over it. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I salute those young women who want to take this final step towards equality in the military and wish them well. It's not something I would want to do though.




And a BIG HUG right back at ya :) {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Forum Buddies }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

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Post #: 171
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 4:07:04 AM   
Gary Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Guys, have I ever in this thread advocated weaker standards for women? I think I've been upfront that if a woman wants to be in combat they should meet all standards necessary to do the job. The standards should be relevant though and equally applied.

Someone commented about women just wanting to earn a Combat Infantry Badge... yea, the ticket to advancement if they want a military career. Can't blame them.

Sorry about the "baby machine" quote, it shouldn't have been a quote as no one said that, I think it was Steiner set me off on that one and I over-reacted with that response.

In the recent news... Minnesota woman goes to Canada to enlist, serving in the infantry in Afghanistan combat. In another case, American Jewish woman goes to Israel and is now serving in an all-female combat Battalion patrolling the Sinai border. Every other army in Europe except Britain allows women in combat units with no problems.

The logistics of tampons and maxi-pads can be resolved, I'm sure. All these other nations have managed and our Nato allies have been in combat with us in Afghanistan since the beginning so they aren't just a peacetime army with women.

Time will tell, but I think the Military seems to be taking this in stride from the articles I've read and aren't freaking out over it. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I salute those young women who want to take this final step towards equality in the military and wish them well. It's not something I would want to do though.


Agree 100% with you rhondabrwn.

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Post #: 172
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 4:13:00 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 1894
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Guys, have I ever in this thread advocated weaker standards for women? I think I've been upfront that if a woman wants to be in combat they should meet all standards necessary to do the job. The standards should be relevant though and equally applied.

Someone commented about women just wanting to earn a Combat Infantry Badge... yea, the ticket to advancement if they want a military career. Can't blame them.

Sorry about the "baby machine" quote, it shouldn't have been a quote as no one said that, I think it was Steiner set me off on that one and I over-reacted with that response.

In the recent news... Minnesota woman goes to Canada to enlist, serving in the infantry in Afghanistan combat. In another case, American Jewish woman goes to Israel and is now serving in an all-female combat Battalion patrolling the Sinai border. Every other army in Europe except Britain allows women in combat units with no problems.

The logistics of tampons and maxi-pads can be resolved, I'm sure. All these other nations have managed and our Nato allies have been in combat with us in Afghanistan since the beginning so they aren't just a peacetime army with women.

Time will tell, but I think the Military seems to be taking this in stride from the articles I've read and aren't freaking out over it. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I salute those young women who want to take this final step towards equality in the military and wish them well. It's not something I would want to do though.


Agree 100% with you rhondabrwn.


Thanks Gary :)

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

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Post #: 173
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 7:03:51 AM   
Jim D Burns


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Katie Petronio is a USMC captain with two combat deployments. Her words speak volumes about the differences between men and women that women activists simply don't want to admit. Of note listen to her comments at 5:02, it speaks to the need to 'protect' women due to their inability to cope with the job they so desperately think they can handle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FABcQRv2vQ

With just two women in the Platoon she managed to get herself and the other female through their tour, but both of them were very sick and worn down even though they stayed in the vehicles as much as possible. Now imagine the problems you'll have with 10 or more females in a platoon, no way you can safely hide them all in their vehicles and still manage to achieve your mission tasks. Not to mention how pissed the men will be having to do their own jobs and the jobs of the women who aren't capable of cutting it.

It's not sexism, it's a fact of life. Women cannot handle the same level of physical demands that men can handle in combat. There are plenty of jobs women can do and are currently doing in the military, combat duty is not one of them and should never be one. People are going to end up dying because of this political correctness crap.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 2/7/2013 2:18:48 PM >


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Post #: 174
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 9:21:14 AM   
berto


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Katie Petronio's viewpoint closely matches my own. Good link, good woman, good Marine.

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Post #: 175
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 12:21:17 PM   
Gary Childress


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Why is it then that the Isaeli Defense Force seems to think it OK for women to serve in frontline combat? Have women been a detriment to the IDF?

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Post #: 176
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 12:31:27 PM   
berto


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Maybe because they're outnumbered by, what?, 20:1? Maybe they have no practical choice? We, however, do.

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(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 177
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 12:43:24 PM   
Gary Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


Maybe because they're outnumbered by, what?, 20:1? Maybe they have no practical choice? We, however, do.


Doesn't that serve as some proof, though, that women are capable of serving on the front line? And if they are capable and want to contribute to the defense of their country, shouldn't they be allowed to?

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(in reply to berto)
Post #: 178
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 12:51:09 PM   
berto


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From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

Maybe because they're outnumbered by, what?, 20:1? Maybe they have no practical choice? We, however, do.

Doesn't that serve as some proof, though, that women are capable of serving on the front line? And if they are capable and want to contribute to the defense of their country, shouldn't they be allowed to?

No, maybe it just proves the Israelis are desperate.

I think that women should have nearly equal opportunity to serve in the military, not just "in the trenches" in the front-line infantry alongside the men.

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(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 179
RE: Women In the Infantry - 2/6/2013 1:00:40 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5433
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

Maybe because they're outnumbered by, what?, 20:1? Maybe they have no practical choice? We, however, do.

Doesn't that serve as some proof, though, that women are capable of serving on the front line? And if they are capable and want to contribute to the defense of their country, shouldn't they be allowed to?

No, maybe it just proves the Israelis are desperate.



So based on the fact that women serve in combat roles in the IDF doesn't prove that women are capable of doing so? Are women a detriment to the IDF? EDIT: And if they are a detriment then why would the IDF deploy them if they will reduce combat effectiveness of the IDF?

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 2/6/2013 1:03:55 PM >


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(in reply to berto)
Post #: 180
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