RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game.

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RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game.

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RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/24/2013 3:51:44 PM

crsutton

Posts: 6195
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

- subsequent to the A-bombs, it was only the Emporer's personal intervention that produced the IJ surrender. absent those strikes, IJ resistance would most likely have continued, w/ 'medieval' effects on Japan as mentioned above.

Well yes, time would have been a factor. But nothing weakens resolve and brings about political change faster than hunger. And Japan was facing hunger on a massive scale in the coming year. Knowing what I do about Hirohito, his personal intervention would have come sooner or later (and I am guessing sooner) with the death of so many subjects. With or without the bomb, I suspect he would have acted within a months or two anyways.

Just speculating here...

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(in reply to jmalter)

Post #: 31

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/28/2013 6:07:54 AM

erstad

Posts: 1826
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes it Fabertong I'm playing. Just done the next turn and definately no effect whatsoever on industry with regards to damage. However I have noticed he seems to have gained almost 4000 strategic points.

I don't see how that happens.

+1

Have you rigorously looked at all of the industry in the targeted hex and compared it to the pre-abomb state?

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 32

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/28/2013 3:59:26 PM

Miller

Posts: 1456
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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes it Fabertong I'm playing. Just done the next turn and definately no effect whatsoever on industry with regards to damage. However I have noticed he seems to have gained almost 4000 strategic points.

I don't see how that happens.

+1

Have you rigorously looked at all of the industry in the targeted hex and compared it to the pre-abomb state?

Yes. Looks like it may have done some damage to the Naval and Repair shipyards, definately no HI/LI or other damage I can see. Other than the strategic points gained a wasted effort by the looks of it.

(in reply to erstad)

Post #: 33

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/28/2013 4:02:54 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes it Fabertong I'm playing. Just done the next turn and definately no effect whatsoever on industry with regards to damage. However I have noticed he seems to have gained almost 4000 strategic points.

I don't see how that happens.

+1

Have you rigorously looked at all of the industry in the targeted hex and compared it to the pre-abomb state?

Yes. Looks like it may have done some damage to the Naval and Repair shipyards, definately no HI/LI or other damage I can see. Other than the strategic points gained a wasted effort by the looks of it.

But the point is, how is there 4000 strat damage points without industry or manpower losses?

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/28/2013 4:03:02 PM >

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The Moose

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Post #: 34

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/28/2013 4:08:10 PM

Miller

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From: Ashington, England.
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I have no idea. I will triple/quadruple check just to make sure I have not missed anything when I get the next turn......

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 35

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/28/2013 11:31:19 PM

erstad

Posts: 1826
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From: Midwest USA
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Here's some a-bomb results from Tokyo that has been a-bombed three times in a PBEM.

Resource center of 280: Hit once and became 180 good/50 damage (implies 50 destroyed), hit again to become 80/75, hit again to become 20/90

Oil center of 5: Not affected by any hit

HI: Started "big", the damaged/destroyed centers "similar" to the resource center info previously. Importantly, this suggests that the damage is coming off an absolute scaled random formula rather than a percentage based one, at least some of the time. I saw similar results on LI.

Refinery of 200: Not affected by two of three hits, one of the hits did 50 damage/50 destroyed (exactly same as the first resource center hit. Hmm. Die roll on a table with a set of outcomes?)

Not going to go into detail on all the rest of the industry there, but generally what I see is that a given industry type might not be affected; if it is affected a somewhat typical amount is 50 damage + 50 destroyed (1100 VP) although it can be higher or lower. I see some of the same damage/destroyed combinations and I have not yet seen one that isn't a multiple of "5", most are multiples of "25".

There are 21 "industries" in the hex, and many of them were not affected by any of the three a-bombs. For the most part, these are smaller ones (e.g., 5-50 centers) although there is one large engine factory (~500) that has yet to be hit.

Resources, HI, and LI were hit every time. I'd have to look at other a-bomb sites to see if this is universally true or they were just unlucky. (If "size matters" in selecting impacted industries, these are some of the biggest industries in the hex).

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 36

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/28/2013 11:33:50 PM

erstad

Posts: 1826
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From: Midwest USA
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quote:

But the point is, how is there 4000 strat damage points without industry or manpower losses?

Well, he did clarify that the repair and naval shipyards got hit. If they each had 75 destroyed (a possible result based on my experience) that would be 3000 VPs right there, if there is also damage to those and/or some other "secondary" industry that got hit it could be around 4000 pretty easily.

BTW, Miller, if you use tracker the base screen is great to look at this. Click the base in question and open up the "Object History" screen. You can then click any of the industry types and see the good/damaged over the course of time.

< Message edited by erstad -- 1/28/2013 11:35:30 PM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 37

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/29/2013 5:24:41 PM

santino250

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Joined: 6/17/2009
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I have had the same thing happen twice!!!!

I have dropped 2 atomic bombs on Tokyo!! And nothing has changed!!! No Damage whatso-EVER!!!

Not to manpower, planes, factories,ports, industrys... Nothing - 2 bombs dropped , and no damage!! They really need to make the Atomic bomb part more realistic... where if you drop one, then many of the industries are damaged like 30%... I get more damage from 10 4 engine planes...

Thanks

(in reply to jmalter)

Post #: 38

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 1/29/2013 6:41:50 PM

aztez

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From: Finland
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I have dropped a lot of A-bombs in my two PBEM games.

They are pretty much useless againts industry. Actually not sure whether they cause anything againts them.

Only visible thing has been that manpower numbers are affected but that is pretty much it.

(in reply to santino250)

Post #: 39

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 2/1/2013 4:03:47 PM

Miller

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From: Ashington, England.
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*NEWSFLASH* 4th August 45

Second atomic bomb dropped by the decadent Yankees. Target Nagoya. This one yields 6000 startegic points for the penguin, but again industrial damage is light. A couple of a/c factories take 20 or so points of damage as does LI and Shipyards.

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Post #: 40

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 2/1/2013 4:04:52 PM

catwhoorg

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From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
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Remind me not to bother with them if I ever get to 1945...

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 41

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 2/1/2013 4:17:25 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 14826
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

*NEWSFLASH* 4th August 45

Second atomic bomb dropped by the decadent Yankees. Target Nagoya. This one yields 6000 startegic points for the penguin, but again industrial damage is light. A couple of a/c factories take 20 or so points of damage as does LI and Shipyards.

Miller,

Apologies if you've already checked and reported on this. Are you sure that there's no more factories / LI destroyed per se? IIRC, 'destroyed' items such as this disappear from the numerator, whilest the damaged units are in parentheses.

What I'm suggesting is that your a/c factories may have been 200(0), but now are 100(20). Yes, there are '20' damaged, but the other 80 just up and disappeared. Destroyed factories are worth a whole lot more than damaged ones, but may not show up as such.

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Post #: 42

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 2/1/2013 6:44:12 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 348
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From: Lima and Toronto
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Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.

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Post #: 43

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 2/1/2013 6:54:06 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 14826
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From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online

A pre and post-nuke screenie of Nagoya's city screen (with production) would be most welcome, Miller.

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Post #: 44

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 2/2/2013 12:39:42 PM

Miller

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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

A pre and post-nuke screenie of Nagoya's city�screen (with production)�would be most welcome, Miller.

Sorry, a bit to technical for me. However I ran the turn before the attack again and noted down the pre bomb industry levels. Looks like I permanently lost 80 LI and 50 HI, nothing else lost, only damaged slightly.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 45

RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. - 2/2/2013 1:36:16 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 14826
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

A pre and post-nuke screenie of Nagoya's city�screen (with production)�would be most welcome, Miller.

Sorry, a bit to technical for me. However I ran the turn before the attack again and noted down the pre bomb industry levels. Looks like I permanently lost 80 LI and 50 HI, nothing else lost, only damaged slightly.

OK. So, according the manual, p. 264, section 17.0 "Victory Points", it's 2 VP per unit damaged, 20 VP per unit destroyed. HI/LI, etc. can only be destroyed by firestorms or A-bombs, but is worth 10x the value of merely damaged factories. A previously damaged factory can be destroyed and yield another 18 VPs.

For your Nagoya, Miller: 20 VP x 80 (LI destroyed)+ 50 (HI destroyed)= 20x130=2600 VPs.

2600 VPs from the identified destroyed factories, but there's still a sizeable body of unidentified VPs. My guess is the balance came from other resource, naval shipyard, aircraft factories, etc. Without seeing more detail pre and post-bomb, I can't help you identify where those VPs originated further, but this gets you half way there.

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Post #: 46