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Mortar spotting = real spotting or no?

 
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Mortar spotting = real spotting or no? - 1/20/2013 11:48:30 AM   
fentum

 

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I very much like the implementation of mortar spotting, but have a query regarding how mortar spotters affect LOS to enemy units.

When considering whether or not enemy units are in general LOS, do all potential spotting hexes for mortars count as having friendly units in them?

For example, if a mortar is behind a hill, with hill top hexes as potential mortar spotter hexes, are enemy units approaching the hill deemed to be in LOS for purposes such as hiding? This is assuming that no other friendly units have LOS.

To put it another way, do potential mortar spotter hexes provide global spotting for the PLAYER?

If so, they are quite powerful as scouts, never mind mortars.



< Message edited by fentum -- 1/20/2013 11:56:21 AM >
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RE: Mortar spotting = real spotting or no? - 1/20/2013 5:44:08 PM   
VR_IronFist


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Hi fentum, my understanding of the board game rules is that yes, the Mortar unit gets LOS from a spotting hex. Specifically the rule reads, "The mortar unit has LOS from the spotting hex for all purposes." I interpreted that to mean anything the Spotters can see is "seen" by the Mortar as if the unit was in the hex. Example: for actual firing purposes, i.e. "Direct" versus "Indirect," you use the physical location of the Mortar and not the spotting hex. However for all other purposes, you use the spotting hex. Does that make sense? I attached the full Mortar Rules for discussion purposes.

Now how the PC game interprets this rule might be different. LOS rules are programmed on a map by map bases in a LOS Table the firefight's creator has to setup, so if someone made a mistake, it could vary from one firefight to another (I've found some non-Mortar LOS discrepancies in the past and let Eric know about them). For a final answer to your query, we'll have to wait for Eric's response.




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(in reply to fentum)
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RE: Mortar spotting = real spotting or no? - 1/20/2013 5:53:45 PM   
fentum

 

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Joined: 6/22/2007
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Hi VR_Ironfist,

Thanks very much for your feedback and in particular the specific reference.

I worry about this in the real world of boardgames. That implies that one should check LOS from all possible mortar spotting hexes every time a previously unseen enemy unit moves within potential sight lines. Man that seems a boring thing to have to do. It's time consuming using the PC LOS tool. Imagine doing that in real life!

Is that for real? Itw ould seem a lot easier in game play if the spotters only counted at the point of the mortar making an attack. The spotters in a way 'committing' themselves to a hex. Admittedly, that hex could move next turn.

Thanks again for your help.

(in reply to VR_IronFist)
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RE: Mortar spotting = real spotting or no? - 1/20/2013 6:07:10 PM   
fentum

 

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Actually wait a moment.

"The mortar unit has LOS from the spotting hex for all purposes."

It doesn't read

"The mortar unit has LOS from all potential spotting hexes for all purposes."

Reading it again, it could be argued that the LOS effect only kicks in once the mortar has decided to fire. i.e. determined a spotting hex.

As a linked query, does the player have to declare which hex is the spotting hex? I assume no. Mortars stay 'out of sight' whilst raining death on their opponents. But I guess it could be argued that there may be an element of trajectory tracking.

Sorry if all these queries have already been covered, but there are many many pages of stuff to read through.





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RE: Mortar spotting = real spotting or no? - 1/20/2013 6:10:25 PM   
VR_IronFist


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Hey fentum, it's slightly different in the board game because the only Hidden Units use those specific rules, i.e. there is not "Fog of War" in the board game, all units are on the map. Therefore the only LOS checks are usually for firing and not to "see" the enemy. In the board game there are specific criteria when a Hidden unit is revealed to an enemy (2 actually) and only when they are met does a player reveal them.

In the PC game there is "Fog of War" so the PC game keeps track of all the vagaries of LOS and what can be seen and not seen. Just from personal experience, it doesn't look like Spotters can reveal LOS in the PC game the way the board game rules read. However I wanted Eric to respond since I am not "in the know" regarding this.

Best.

(in reply to fentum)
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RE: Mortar spotting = real spotting or no? - 1/20/2013 6:43:32 PM   
fentum

 

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Joined: 6/22/2007
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Thanks VR_Ironfist,

I am embarassed to say that I only ever played the boardgame live using Price of Honour. I have all the sets but used Zun Tsu to play AtB as a board game. I actually have an unused copy of AtB I plus The Marsh. I plan to buy AtB II, so i'll sell AtB I most likely.

I didn't strike me about the FOW in the PC game.

I reckon you are correct in that 'potential spotter' LOS DOESN'T spot moving enemies in the PC game, but it would be good to get an official view.



< Message edited by fentum -- 1/20/2013 6:44:18 PM >

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