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RE: HQ/SU Bug

 
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RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 12:03:42 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		We don't get to see what the other player has disdanded I think. Its WAD I think.

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Post #: 61
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 3:38:51 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online 		Sappers are still in the unit as of the start of Soviet turn 90 so Michael can continue.

As for the Front HQ, I'm checking into it further, but by 1944 the Soviets only have 11 Fronts, so it's possible as territory is gained the number of fronts is reduced automatically to 11 (what you have now). The manual may not have a complete list of all the changes that take place, but I'll see what info we can turn up about this.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 62
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 4:26:40 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Well that Front has only been on the map since T71. I had not even done too much with it to date, but I had plans for it!

The real pain is losing the NW Air HQ. Because now I have to re-assign some other Air HQ, add a decent leader and then attach the AirBases. Maybe ~40 AP. But small fry compared to the sapper thingy.

BTW the Front HQ that vanished in my T89 is still in the 1943 scenario well after T89. Also Flavius mentioned that Bryansk Front HQ is the only Front HQ that should dissapear.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 1/30/2013 4:31:25 AM >

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Post #: 63
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 8:27:16 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		The bug has struck again. Every turn I send around 5 to 10 Air units to the reserve and replace said units with units from the reserve.

Last turn I sent the usual 5 to 10 units to reserve. When I looked at the T90 event log I see (see attachment) almost 100 air units sent to reserve. It seems the AI has sent loads of Air Units to reserve from Northwest Front and Volkov Front. Joel you will see many AB from these Fronts are empty of A/C. I did not send all these units to reserve. And any unit that gets sent to reserve is replaced with a unit from the reserve.

To summarise this is what the AI has done on recent turns:

Around 15 of my Army HQ's were moved to the rear.
Almost all SU assigned to Corp were sent back to the parent HQ's, this has occured on 2 seperate occasions.
2 HQ's disbanded
Almost 100 Air Units sent to resereve.

I really hope you can find the problem and I really appreciate your efforts to help me out. But what the hell is going on!

I closed without saving.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Michael T -- 1/30/2013 8:49:17 AM >

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Post #: 64
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 11:26:07 AM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Did somehow the AI is activated in the savegame, so that during logistics phase it does it's own tricks? I guess this must be stored somewhere in the save, otherwise what would differentiate a game set to HUMAN:HUMAN vs a game set to HUMAN:AI?

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 65
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 11:37:33 AM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		For example when I have selected "Axis: Human" and "Soviet: Computer" then went to create a PBEM game it allowed me to create a PBEM game vs computer (asked for Soviet password, then I had the Axis password and turn). Once I opened the game as the Soviet, the AI started to do it's moves.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 66
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 11:42:09 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		I've uploaded Axis turn and ran it thought the logistics using the latest beta (1.06.27) and the one mentioned in the event log (1.06.25). In both cases I couldn't see numerous air groups sent to the NR.

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 67
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 11:44:35 AM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		We don't have this latest beta yet.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 68
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 11:48:07 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4766
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

...But what the hell is going on!...


No idea at this point, but you should consider deleting the game and reinstalling in case some file has become corrupted.


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(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 69
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 6:36:31 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online 		The 1.06.27 should be released today (it's just a matter of Matrix having production time available to create and post the installer).

I also loaded the turn 90 start of German turn save, and just ended the turn and went to the Soviet logistics phase, and no Soviet air groups went to the National Reserve. Sounds like we may need to back up and have Pelton make his turn over again, and save save off before he ends his turn. I'll discuss with Pavel and see what he suggests. I don't know what Pelton could have done in his German turn that would have caused all of the units to go back to the National Reserve. My test was with 1.06.27, but Pavel said he ran the same test on 1.06.25 so that isn't the issue.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 70
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 7:34:40 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		But you do see the problem when you open the file that I open? That is my turn.

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(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 71
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 7:55:47 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online 		Yes, I see the problem in your turn, and clearly it is there after the Soviet Logistics phase. However, loading the start of Pelton's turn and ending it doesn't cause the problem to recreate. So I have reset the server back one player turn and emailed Pelton and asked him to take his turn over and save just before he ends his turn (I told him to try to do the same things over again that he did the first time, as best he can remember). Once he saves it I will download this save, and then ask him to end his turn. We will then have saves at each step.

Gary sees no code that would ever disband the Southwestern Front (as others reported,only the Bryansk front gets disbanded). So this is a real mystery to add to the pile.

Could you send me your email address (I know I had it at one time but I don't now). That way I can email you and pelton at each step. I am beginning to wonder if we will be able to track this down.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 72
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 8:07:52 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Could there be a bug that temporarily overwrites some data in memory causing AI to activate during the logistics phase and do more than it should in case of "human only" logistics phase?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 73
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 8:40:48 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		@Joel, email sent.

quote:

I am beginning to wonder if we will be able to track this down.


I have faith in the guru's.

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(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 74
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/30/2013 9:59:40 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1165
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		BG0083 was also seeing the AI messing with player controlled units. Also had the pattern of occurring every other turn.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 75
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 6:33:48 AM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		And what was that bug?

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 76
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 11:22:23 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4766
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

And what was that bug?


The AI was taking some units off refit mode. Fixed in 1.06.17.

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We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 77
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 12:33:40 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		So this may be similar case. I would also look in this case as in the old one, what activates the AI to do such things instead of blocking that single occurence.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 78
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 7:49:15 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online 		Yes, but the symptoms in this case are not things the AI would ever do (disbanding Southwestern Front is nowhere in the code, moving tons of support units back from combat units is not something the AI would normally do, and moving HQs 10 hexes to the rear would only happen if the AI was trying to do a major retreat, in which case why didn't the units move as well?). I left Gary a message about the prior bug fix in case it rings any bells, but it's a long shot. Thanks for mentioning it though, as you never know.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 79
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 8:25:00 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1165
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		It's also a suggestion to Pavel & Gary that they run two turns with the saves downloaded from the server to see if any bug hits on the 2nd of those, that was the case for Pavel with BG0083.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 80
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 9:49:59 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Yes, but the symptoms in this case are not things the AI would ever do (disbanding Southwestern Front is nowhere in the code, moving tons of support units back from combat units is not something the AI would normally do, and moving HQs 10 hexes to the rear would only happen if the AI was trying to do a major retreat, in which case why didn't the units move as well?). I left Gary a message about the prior bug fix in case it rings any bells, but it's a long shot. Thanks for mentioning it though, as you never know.


Then why did all of the above happen over atleast 4 turns?

I dont understand why with at least 3 turns of data we are all still in the dark?


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GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 81
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 10:35:26 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1325
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline 		Your getting very direct support from the producer of the game, a alpha/beta tester and one of the programmers..

The bug(?) is nasty, but they'll squash it eventually.

Chill out, they are doing the best they can

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(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 82
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/31/2013 10:45:11 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Your getting very direct support from the producer of the game, a alpha/beta tester and one of the programmers..

The bug(?) is nasty, but they'll squash it eventually.

Chill out, they are doing the best they can


Whats the "?" mean?

PS I am sure its top secret and no one knows what it means




< Message edited by Pelton -- 1/31/2013 10:50:50 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 83
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 2/1/2013 2:41:20 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online 		The reason we are in the dark is because we have not been able to repeat the bug from any save. If it's not repeatable, then it can be near impossible to figure out. We are taking more saves at more points during the turn so in case it happens again we will know when it is happening. Hopefully it will then be recreatable, but if not, at least we know when it's happening. We don't know that yet from what we've seen. A server game is always harder to figure out because we don't have every save going back through time, unlike a PBEM game.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 84
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 2/1/2013 3:57:06 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5744
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: online 		If the game is somehow corrupted, is it even possible to fix that? I'm not sure this is a coding issue at all since nobody seems able to duplicate this behavior. Gremlins took a liking to this game in particular.





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Post #: 85
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 2/1/2013 6:46:40 AM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1325
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

If the game is somehow corrupted, is it even possible to fix that? I'm not sure this is a coding issue at all since nobody seems able to duplicate this behavior. Gremlins took a liking to this game in particular.



Thats what I thought... The problems reported seem only related to THIS particular game. Thats why I said bug(?).

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Post #: 86
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 2/1/2013 4:48:36 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online 		Well, having Pelton go back and replay his turn (with us downloading each save as it is made), has allowed the game to get to Michael T's turn again without the support units leaving the combat units (which they had done the first time we reached this point). So this bug did not repeat. We will continue on and see if Michael sees any other probelms that have come up.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 87
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 2/1/2013 7:05:55 PM   
Manstein63

 

Posts: 345
Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline 		Is it only the Front HQ's that are disappearing? or are army HQ's vanishing as well. Also has Pelton been checking to see if anything similar is happening to him on his turn?
Manstein63

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 88
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 2/1/2013 9:22:55 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		So far:

1 Front HQ
2 Air Army HQ's



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'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Manstein63)
Post #: 89
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 2/5/2013 1:47:50 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1095
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		What is the status of the situation, please.

Thanks

Mark

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 90
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