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RE: HQ/SU Bug

 
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RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/24/2013 4:06:44 AM   
Michael T


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I have been testing with different HQ settings and have not been able to get a HQ to 'steal' any SU from Corp units at all.

I am convinced this is a bug or corruption that has occured but I have no idea why or how. I believe the HQ's warping east and the 'stealing' back of SU is linked but I can't make any more progress. We need some more examples from others or Pavels input.

I am leaving it alone now unless it re-surfaces. When Pavel gets back I will see if its possible to 'refund' my AP's lost to this problem.

Thats all for now.

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Post #: 31
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/26/2013 8:25:13 AM   
Michael T


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The bug has hit me again I opened T89 and found that 119 Sapper Reg have been 'stolen' from my Corp by the parent HQ. I counted 111 Sapper Reg directly attached to HQ in T88. In T89 I count 230 in HQ.

I closed the turn again without saving.

The game is on hold again I am affraid.

Can someone please get back to me about this.

Also this turn my Northwest Front Air Command has dissapeared. It is coming up under the losses screen as Eliminated.

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Post #: 32
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/26/2013 4:42:49 PM   
elmo3

 

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I have the current save and the backup save. Will look at them some time this weekend to see if we can replicate the problem.

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Post #: 33
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/26/2013 8:06:44 PM   
Michael T


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Thank you

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Post #: 34
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/26/2013 11:45:21 PM   
Joel Billings


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Lee sent me the saves. At the save in the middle of the German turn 89 there are 27 engineer units in Soviet Corps. At the start of Soviet turn 89 there are also 27 engineer units attached to Soviet Corps. Are you saying there were more than 27 eng units attached to Soviet Corps when you ended your turn 88? If so, then they left the units between when you pressed end turn and when Pelton saved the game sometime during the German move (I can see some of his units have been moved). The AI could be taking control after you end your turn, or something could be going on in the German logistics phase. What we'd need to see is you save right before you end your turn, and then let us know before Pelton does anything so we can have a save before and after you end the turn. I hate to have you get stuck again, but I think we need you to move 20-40 sappers to the corps and play your turn, and then save, and then end your turn and notify us (and tell Pelton not to make a move until we let him know it's safe to play). If you do this, we might be able to trap the bug. The more Sappers you're willing to move, the easier it will be to see a problem. Sorry it's screwing up your game.

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Post #: 35
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 4:56:30 AM   
Michael T


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Ok I have 272 Sapper Reg in total. At the end of my T88 I had 111 in HQ (I counted them 3 times in the CR screen) , so by my math that means I had 161 Sappers attached directly to Corp. And I did spend around 160 AP assigning Sappers over the course of turns 87/88. And I know certain Corps were full of Sappers (Nearly all of Northwest Corps) and now they are empty. So yes I had many more than 27 Sappers attached to Corp at the end of my T88.

Also I did have some Tk II/III assigned to Corp and they also returned to HQ. But these were stolen when I opened T87. I have not re attached anything now bar Sappers.

The bug also removed loads of Sapper battalions as well in my T87 but I have not re-assigned any of those.

I will do as you ask no problem. I will spend as much as I can re-assigning Sappers. Nothing on anything else. It might take me 2/3 turns to get to the same level of Sapper attachment as when the bug hit me as I don't have any more units I can afford to set to static now, I just have 60 AP per turn. Also it did not hit me in T88. So it skipped a turn. I am happy to do this as long as it takes to nail this thing.

So the sequence should be:

I play and save just before end.
Then End.
Then notify you.
Then you notify Pelton when he can start his turn.

Please confirm that process.



What about my dissapearing Air HQ?

< Message edited by Michael T -- 1/27/2013 5:10:32 AM >


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Post #: 36
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 8:39:28 AM   
Manstein63


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I hope you're able to get this fixed. It must really be a pain especially as you seem to be breaking through Pelton's defence
Manstein63

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Post #: 37
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 11:37:50 AM   
Michael T


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Ok I am ready to end my T89. I have saved just now. When I get the OK from Joel or Lee I will end the turn.

You should see I have 272 total Sapper III. 99 are attached to Corp and 173 are in HQ. Total 272. Check.

You should also check these things:

My Northwest Air HQ has vanished. It was there last turn. It is showing as disbanded. I did not disband it.

My Southwest Front HQ and associated Air HQ have vanished. They were there last turn. I have no idea what has happened to them.

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Post #: 38
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 5:44:21 PM   
Joel Billings


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Ok, I have the save, and I also count 99 eng units in corps. Let Pelton know not to move yet, and go ahead and end the turn. I'll download when I can and then notify pelton he can make his turn.

Lee is AFK today due to a family emergency, but I'll try to check back periodically to get the save off the server after you've ended your turn.

As for the HQs, did you check to see if they changed name? What happened to the units that used to report to the HQs?

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 1/27/2013 5:55:02 PM >


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Post #: 39
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 6:15:43 PM   
Michael T


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Ok turn ended. Pelton knows not to begin his turn till we tell him.

None of the HQ's I mention have changed name. Although the Southwestern Front changed name to Central Front this turn. Thankfully its still on the map.

Southwest Front HQ and Air HQ are gone. I only had my Para's attached to Southwest Front. They have reverted to Stavka.

Northwest Air HQ has gone. Its Airbases have reverted to Northwest Front.

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Post #: 40
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 7:29:21 PM   
Joel Billings


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Got the save, 99 eng units sill in corps, Pelton can go on.

You said Southwest front changed name to Central Front and is on the map, but you said it also is gone. Did you mean to say some other HQ changed to Central Front?

Found this in the rules which probably explains front HQs:

Kiev MD (at start) to Southwestern Front (6/41) to Stalingrad Front (7/42) to Don Front (10/42) to Central Front (2/43) to Belorussian Front (10/43) to 1st Belorussian Front (2/44)
Southwestern Front (reformed 10/42) to 3rd Ukrainian Front (10/43)

I see the air HQ's should have renamed in 1942. See 8.3.2 to see if you have the right number of Air Army HQ now. All this realism chrome can be quite confusing.


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Post #: 41
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 7:36:37 PM   
morvael


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There may be some Air Army HQ that are badly named: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3232393

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Post #: 42
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 10:18:06 PM   
Michael T


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Joel there is a Southwest Front and a Southwestern Front on the map at the same time, 2 different HQ's. One is green in colour the other a orange/pink color.

How about this. My Green Front changed to Central Front. My Orange/Pink Front has vanished along with its Air HQ. Northwest Front Air HQ (Yellow in color) has vanished.

Please look at this. These HQ's really have vanished. I am certain of it.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 1/27/2013 10:24:09 PM >


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Post #: 43
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/27/2013 11:16:42 PM   
Michael T


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Here is a screenie of the Front HQ that has vanished. This shot is from the 1943 scenario. But its the same unit from my game that has vanished, along with its Air HQ I had attached to it. Plus my Northwest Air HQ has vanished. 3 HQ's all up gone.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 44
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 12:05:35 AM   
Joel Billings


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There's no Southwest Front in the manual or the database. There are two places where there is a Soiuthwestern Front mentioned in the manual. I'll have to have Gary look at the code to see if something changes the name to Southwest. As for the air command HQs, I think Pavel will have to look at that as I think he wrote the code for the Soviet air HQ's changing to Air Armies, but I'll ask Gary if he knows anything about it.

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Post #: 45
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 12:32:41 AM   
Michael T


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Ok sorry for the confusion. I had 2 Front HQ's, both apparently with the same name. But different colors. Both called Southwestern Front.

One is Dark Green. It has been around since about turn 3 or 4. It changed its name to Central Front on T89 and it is now colored a light Green. It exists and is fine.

The other Southwestern Front came in on T71 (see pic) and was colored pink/orange as above.

On T89, the turn green SW front changed to Central Front the other SW Front (pink) vanished. Its units reverted to Stavka.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 46
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 12:33:56 AM   
Michael T


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Reinforcement schedule SW front.




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Post #: 47
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 12:36:39 AM   
Michael T


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Meanwhile Pelton has a email from Slitherine telling him he has downloaded too many times. He won't do his turn now till that problem is sorted. Frustration x 1000

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Post #: 48
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 12:43:35 AM   
Michael T


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The HQ thing has me totally confused.

The bottom line is this. I had a Pink/Orange Front HQ at Kursk, and attached Air HQ. It had all my Para's attached to it. No other Army HQ's or units. When I opened T89 it and its Air HQ were gone. And the Para's were under Stavka command. When I opened T89 my Northwest (Yellow) Air HQ was gone and the Airbases that were attached to it were attached to the Front instead.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 1/28/2013 1:10:13 AM >


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Post #: 49
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 12:51:59 AM   
Michael T


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See this pic. It says my SW front was disbanded along with NW Air HQ. I did not do this.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 50
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 1:05:42 AM   
Michael T


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If you have a look at the saves from a few turns back you will see the Front HQ I am talking about. Near Kursk with Para X attached. If you look at T89 it is gone. The screen above is saying it was disbanded. I did not do that. So the bug/AI has disbanded it plus my Northwest Air HQ.

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Post #: 51
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 1:06:49 AM   
Flaviusx


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Central Front is supposed to become the green front at some point in 43, that is WAD. (But it is a light green Front, not a dark green. The old dark green SW Front font goes away entirely. The new SW Front that arrives is a different font, brown/pink I think.) The Front swap you are seeing is also WAD. So long as the actual Front count is correct, there's no issue here. You will see more of these changes down the line, most of these Fronts get renamed. In October of 43 1-3 Ukraine Fronts, various Belorussian and Baltic Fronts later, etc. The Air HQs also get all swapped out for numbered Air Armies on a one to one basis. These should all be cosmetic changes only so far as fonts and names go, the actual HQs involved shouldn't going away or changing location.

Bryansk Front disappears entirely at the end of 43, just FYI. But later on you get a Belorussian Front (2. I believe) to replace that. Central Front becomes 1. Belorussian. You eventually get a 4. Ukraine Front in 1944.

Numerically speaking, are you seeing anything outright disappear here? Nomenclature changes aside. The only actual disappearing Front that should ever happen in game is Bryansk in late 43, that is the only time you should ever actually lose a Front as opposed to getting name changes.

Did the NW Air HQ get a replacement numbered Air Army? All the named Front air HQs eventually become air armies on a one to one basis, there should be no reduction in air HQs. Again, this is a cosmetic change. On top of that you will get some new air armies arriving that serve as reinforcements for new Front commands.




< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/28/2013 1:11:29 AM >


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RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 1:15:30 AM   
Michael T


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I know I have muddied the water here with some nomenclature errors.

But I have lost a Front HQ. And a Air HQ. See the screenie above. Those names are correct. They have not been replaced.

The best thing is for someone to look a save from before T89. They will see the HQ's I refer to. Then in T89 they are gone.

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Post #: 53
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 1:17:31 AM   
Michael T


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quote:

The new SW Front that arrives is a different font, brown/pink I think.)


This is the one that has vanished.

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Post #: 54
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 1:18:34 AM   
Flaviusx


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If HQs are just flat out going away...that is bad. Only time that should ever happen is with Bryansk Front.

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Post #: 55
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 1:19:55 AM   
Michael T


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Well they have been disbanded apparently, for reasons unknown.

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Post #: 56
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 1:45:56 AM   
Flaviusx


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What happened to the stuff attached to these front HQs? Did they revert to STAVKA command? If so, that is a clear bug. Once again, this should only happen once with the stuff attached to Bryansk Front.

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Post #: 57
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 2:27:55 AM   
Michael T


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The Airbases from NW Air HQ reverted to NW Front HQ. The only units I had attached to SW Front were Para X. They reverted to Stavka.

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Post #: 58
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/28/2013 9:56:27 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Meanwhile Pelton has a email from Slitherine telling him he has downloaded too many times. He won't do his turn now till that problem is sorted. Frustration x 1000


JB was nice enough to do some digging and got some answers on the reloads.

So once I get back from V-ball practice I will get turn done, finally !

He wants me to do it in one shot, open do moves and end turn.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 1/28/2013 9:57:00 PM >


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Post #: 59
RE: HQ/SU Bug - 1/29/2013 11:52:23 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

See this pic. It says my SW front was disbanded along with NW Air HQ. I did not do this.





Not sure what this means but my Destroyed & Disbanded looks like this,




Attachment (1)

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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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Post #: 60
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