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cant figure it out

 
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cant figure it out - 1/15/2013 10:44:09 PM   
Cruis.In

 

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what is it about distant worlds that really grabs us and pulls us in and does not want to let go?

I've only taken a break from playing because I get to the same point each time. The AI cannot make good ships, so my fleets overpower them I win. Rinse repeat.

The most fun game I had was where I declared war on an arch nemesis three times before I won. He was destroying my ships like 5-1, because he had a lot of armor and I was using a weapon which was half effective vs armor. So it was a real challenge, but I figured his crap out, and adjusted my weapons on my ships, new fleet and I won the war. Before that it was touch n go, protecting myself from his raids while trying to attack him to keep him from raiding and make inroads into his production and money.

I guess I love the gameplay which is awesome but more importantly the awesomeness of the whole package, btu with the challenge. Remove the challenge and all that is left is the gameplay awesomeness. Which I've done to death.

I really wish someone who I'd be eternally grateful to or codeforce would so a super hard AI mod, which builds ships properly. Or limit the hull size of the ships to have standard amount of space upon which to put. The fact that I can add hab modules etc, to my hearts content makes the difference between a 'destroyer' and dreadnought null and void. I can just keep adding enough hab and the other module to keep putting on stuff till my size is at 1500.

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RE: cant figure it out - 1/15/2013 10:59:18 PM   
Bingeling

 

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For me games are fun playing (until they are "won"), and harder to start. So I don't play a load of games :)

I think new AI stuff is promised for Shadows. I always hope for a way to set up crazy hard games without manual input, and without knowing what I will meet (apart form it being supposed to be hard).

As for ships. If you find your ships too powerful, why not stick to the AI layout, and maybe add some house rules? Like allowing to swap between shields and weapons, or limit yourself to the AI design size for ship classes?

In general the way to make the game more interesting is to let the AI run parts of the show. Is 0 taxes too powerful? Sure, don't use them. Is tech trading the easy way to victory? Don't do it. Are your ships too powerful? Let the AI design them.

(in reply to Cruis.In)
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RE: cant figure it out - 1/15/2013 11:13:17 PM   
ASHBERY76


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The game offers victory conditions that do not include war.

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: cant figure it out - 1/16/2013 12:54:10 AM   
StarLab


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

The game offers victory conditions that do not include war.


+1!!!

I love micro-managing my games. I have just as much fun blowing up my numbers as I do other player's ships.



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RE: cant figure it out - 1/16/2013 1:07:57 PM   
Cruis.In

 

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yes but sooner or later the Ai comes for you, because you don't do as they want you too and you need to keep a sizable fleet.

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RE: cant figure it out - 1/16/2013 4:44:41 PM   
StarLab


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Wasn't meaning I never attack/defend myself, just that I find as much satisfaction in building my numbers as I do in conquering.

For instance, in my current game I'm trying something different: a 15x15 map with only 250 stars. 10 years into the game I still only have my original planet and have found at least 1 source of all the strategic resources EXCEPT Silicon.

The game will likely be a bust due to this shortage, but I'm having fun with the anticipation that the next star system I explore (exploration being done manually) will provide this (rare) resource.

I suppose my enjoyment of this aspect of the game is due to my micro-management style of playing (zero automation). If exploration and construction were automated, then yes... this particular game would likely be terribly boring.



< Message edited by StarLab -- 1/16/2013 8:55:49 PM >


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RE: cant figure it out - 1/16/2013 5:06:37 PM   
Cruis.In

 

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i dont warmonger. I wait to be attacked. Which is usually as a result of some border dispute.

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RE: cant figure it out - 1/16/2013 5:46:09 PM   
StarLab


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I also play fairly passively. If someone attacks or declares war on me, then they should understand that some or most of their stuff WILL be mine before the conflict is resolved. :)

I rarely play sandbox mode. I tend to crank up the victory conditions so they're fairly difficult to achieve. I generally play with least a dozen or more ai players with victories set at (50%/50%/50% @90%) with 100 years before they kick in. I can only claim 2 actual victories with these settings.

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RE: cant figure it out - 1/16/2013 6:40:58 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruis.In
I really wish someone who I'd be eternally grateful to or codeforce would so a super hard AI mod, which builds ships properly.


I think you'll find Shadows will give you much more of a challenge. At least, I hope so.

Regards,

- Erik



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RE: cant figure it out - 1/16/2013 7:49:58 PM   
Cruis.In

 

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Erik, thanks for your tip, I am wondering have you guys looked into the 'ship building' thing. Where you can put on hab modules and life support on any hull and make it able to hold any amount of weapons/shields?

Anything to tackle this issue? Or will the AI get smart and do it too instead of limiting themselves?

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RE: cant figure it out - 1/19/2013 9:22:06 AM   
Antiscamp


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Distant Worlds is a story engine, much like Crusader Kings II and Fallen Enchantress. These games are really engines that inspire some very intricate stories in the player's head. That's what fascinates me with these kinds of games and pulls me in.

In our days, games are getting more and more technologically impressive and more and more development time is spent on creating flashy graphics, voice acting and other cool outer features. The big developers cut away on their games' soul and intelligence in favour of the good looks serving the story on a silver plate.

Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls is a great example; the intelligence and inspiration of Daggerfall and Morrowind had to give way for professional, Hollywood-star voice acting, the cool and invaluable beheading perk with killcams and the impressive views with dragons circling above. What they ended up with in Skyrim is actually a game that is so dumbed-down that it isn't even worthy of standing in the shadow of Morrowind when it comes to story and intelligence. Note that I love Skyrim, just as I love Distant Worlds, because I think there's a place in the world for both types of games.

There will always be a good market for the intelligent story engine, like Distant Worlds, though. In fact, very large groups of players are yelling out for them. I encourage the developers of these kinds of story enginge games to continue on their path and create even more "story features" for their games.

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RE: cant figure it out - 1/19/2013 11:54:45 AM   
Modest

 

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If You would ask me what is the thing that do not let me stop playing DW I would say without any hesitation that it is private sector. Private sector is what gives You "living galaxy". No other game has it that way. Wher other games gives us automated traders which are providing money over time, DW gives us traders which are transporting paticular resources and are providing services insted of "MONEYOVERTIME". In other games one trader is representing all fleets of traders (and usually You do not have more thatn 10 or 15 traders) while in DW it is counted in hundreds at some point! Living galaxy and private sector are key features for me. And of course the fact that You may not directly influence private sector. That is what made DW so unique and so great in my opinion. I would like to see others follow DW in that matter.

(in reply to Antiscamp)
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RE: cant figure it out - 1/19/2013 12:34:09 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 1978
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruis.In
I really wish someone who I'd be eternally grateful to or codeforce would so a super hard AI mod, which builds ships properly.


I think you'll find Shadows will give you much more of a challenge. At least, I hope so.

Regards,

- Erik





Hopefully from better actual A.I and not just cheating buffs like that mod.

A generic A.I for each race destroys the whole point of this game in my view.Roleplaying A.I is more important.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
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RE: cant figure it out - 1/19/2013 3:53:56 PM   
Shark7


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You want to know why I love DW so much?

The Truth: Had I designed a 4X space game of my own, DW would have been the game I had dreamed of with only a few minor changes to it. Elliot literally put the game I dreamed of into reality.

The few minor things I would have done differently?

1. Military logistics: Supplies (to make it abstract) would be required to reload ships with ammo based weapons and supplies (food/ammo/etc) would be required for troops...blockading a planet would have the net effect of weakening the defenders.
2. The population would be required to use supplies as well...so a blockade would have a detrimental effect on the population.
3. A bit more in depth manufacturing system: raw material to widget to gadget to end product, etc.

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RE: cant figure it out - 1/19/2013 6:50:07 PM   
adecoy95


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruis.In
I really wish someone who I'd be eternally grateful to or codeforce would so a super hard AI mod, which builds ships properly.


I think you'll find Shadows will give you much more of a challenge. At least, I hope so.

Regards,

- Erik




man, i really hope its true this time, legends AI improvements left something to be desired

< Message edited by adecoy95 -- 1/19/2013 6:51:01 PM >

(in reply to Antiscamp)
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RE: cant figure it out - 1/19/2013 10:26:30 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I think the legends AI have nice buffs, but giving the human too much money is a deal breaker. In a game of relaxed pace (like this one), I doubt it is possible to make a non-cheating AI that matches a pretty good player.
It could be possible to find one that only needs modest buffs, though. I don't mind the income multiplier system of the current difficulty setting. But it for sure be patterns that is effective against it (like tech trading is today).

I can't help the feeling that seeing gas mine trade values at 20 million when a cruiser costs 10-20k, is a sign of something being not quite right in the field of economy. Especially in a world with spheres of influence.


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RE: cant figure it out - 1/20/2013 8:43:17 AM   
feelotraveller


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The big disappointment I had from Legends was that the promised scarcer resources were actually more abundant.  (Remember that this was one if its big selling points back in the day...)  My own efforts to mod this just ended up repeatedly breaking the economy.

I would also have been disappointed that the weaponising of cpu player mining stations didn't make the AI go from bad to good, except that unlike many players I never thought that this would make a great difference.

I really liked the rebalancing of the use of resources in components and thought that the improved pirates made things somewhat more interesting.  The refined tech trees were apprieciated. 

Characters were good in adding flavour variation but (must agree with Bingleing) bad at unbalancing the game.

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 17
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