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Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than WITE

 
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Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than WITE - 1/14/2013 8:51:50 PM   
Gansey

 

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Really having a hard time trying to decide what game to buy next. Essentially i would like something with a solid campaign mode that doesn't involve tedious micromanagement of hundreds of units but still has more to it than Axis and Allies. I have Panzer Corps but thats at the Beer'n' Pretzels end of the scale really. I have looked at Unity of Command but that seems to be more like a sophisticated checkers game than an actual simulation.

I really like the idea of the Decisive Campaigns games but the hundreds of counters in the larger scenarios is really off putting for somebody who thinks twenty minutes per turn is a long time! Command Ops Battle of the Bulge is very intriguing and theoretically at the right unit count/ turn length end of the spectrum. My problem is that there is no overarching campaign mode and the scenarios seem to be pretty similar, just the amount of units change but the actual gameplay is fairly repetitive.

Commander The Great War is definitely under consideration, would like any feedback from people who have played that. Maybe the HPS War in Europe games or Strategic Command WW2. Its a jungle out there, any recommendations will be gratefully received.
Post #: 1
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:00:25 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 20208
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gansey

Really having a hard time trying to decide what game to buy next. Essentially i would like something with a solid campaign mode that doesn't involve tedious micromanagement of hundreds of units but still has more to it than Axis and Allies. I have Panzer Corps but thats at the Beer'n' Pretzels end of the scale really. I have looked at Unity of Command but that seems to be more like a sophisticated checkers game than an actual simulation.

I really like the idea of the Decisive Campaigns games but the hundreds of counters in the larger scenarios is really off putting for somebody who thinks twenty minutes per turn is a long time! Command Ops Battle of the Bulge is very intriguing and theoretically at the right unit count/ turn length end of the spectrum. My problem is that there is no overarching campaign mode and the scenarios seem to be pretty similar, just the amount of units change but the actual gameplay is fairly repetitive.

Commander The Great War is definitely under consideration, would like any feedback from people who have played that. Maybe the HPS War in Europe games or Strategic Command WW2. Its a jungle out there, any recommendations will be gratefully received.
warspite1

CTGW is an excellent game - loads of fun but plenty to think about - even against the AI when starting out. There are a few niggles with the land and air war - but nothing that can't be sorted with some house rules pending a patch or two.

The only thing that lets the game down - and hopefully this too will be addressed - is the naval war. It really does suck.....badly....very, very badly. In fact the only thing that sucks more than the naval war....is me

But even that does not detract too much from this great game. I have played this non-stop since I bought it on day one - currently have a dozen PBEM on the go.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to Gansey)
Post #: 2
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:07:57 PM   
Gansey

 

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Joined: 10/9/2011
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Thanks Warspite, if possible could you explain just HOW the Naval side of CTGW sucks?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 3
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:09:11 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4847
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gansey

Really having a hard time trying to decide what game to buy next. Essentially i would like something with a solid campaign mode that doesn't involve tedious micromanagement of hundreds of units but still has more to it than Axis and Allies. I have Panzer Corps but thats at the Beer'n' Pretzels end of the scale really. I have looked at Unity of Command but that seems to be more like a sophisticated checkers game than an actual simulation.

I really like the idea of the Decisive Campaigns games but the hundreds of counters in the larger scenarios is really off putting for somebody who thinks twenty minutes per turn is a long time! Command Ops Battle of the Bulge is very intriguing and theoretically at the right unit count/ turn length end of the spectrum. My problem is that there is no overarching campaign mode and the scenarios seem to be pretty similar, just the amount of units change but the actual gameplay is fairly repetitive.

Commander The Great War is definitely under consideration, would like any feedback from people who have played that. Maybe the HPS War in Europe games or Strategic Command WW2. Its a jungle out there, any recommendations will be gratefully received.
warspite1

CTGW is an excellent game - loads of fun but plenty to think about - even against the AI when starting out. There are a few niggles with the land and air war - but nothing that can't be sorted with some house rules pending a patch or two.

The only thing that lets the game down - and hopefully this too will be addressed - is the naval war. It really does suck.....badly....very, very badly. In fact the only thing that sucks more than the naval war....is me

But even that does not detract too much from this great game. I have played this non-stop since I bought it on day one - currently have a dozen PBEM on the go.


As much as it pains me I must side with warspite1 here. CTGW is a great game. I also spend an equal amount of time playing DC:Case Blue, it is far less overwhelming than WitE. So buy both.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 4
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:21:50 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 20208
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gansey

Thanks Warspite, if possible could you explain just HOW the Naval side of CTGW sucks?
warspite1

Sure. The designers concentrated on the land and air war - perfectly understandably for a WWI game. But unfortunately they a) dumbed down the naval game, and then b) having dumbed it down they made some truly bizarre decisions in the name of balance.

1. The Germans, British, French, Austrians, Italians and Russians each get one 10-strength Battleship counter.... Yep, you read it right - the Austrian navy is the same size as the Royal Navy.....

2. The Germans, French and Austrians get one 10-strength Cruiser counter. The British get two - whoopee.

There is no skill, little fun (and certainly no historic context) for the naval game I'm afraid. As the game progresses you can unlock Admirals that are added to the counters thus giving certain benefits. Having seen fit to give the Germans the same size Battlefleet as the British, the Germans get Scheer pretty early in the game. I have played about 30 games at least, half a dozen of which have gone into 1917/18. I have yet to see a British Admiral appear.....

It might seem strange that I criticize the naval game so heavily, and yet give the overall game such a strong recommendation. I guess that only goes to show what great fun the land game is.

Have a read of my AAR warspite vs Colberki and you can get more of an idea.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to Gansey)
Post #: 5
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:25:44 PM   
th1207


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From: Lower Saxony, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gansey
Strategic Command


I think there are Demos available for both SC Global Conflict & SC World War 1.


(in reply to Gansey)
Post #: 6
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:31:35 PM   
wodin


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Not sure Commander is more than bear and pretzels..well maybe a little, but I think there are more indepth WW1 games around..I reckon Decisive Campaigns Case Blue is what your after, it does have smaller scenarios and the linked campaign is really superb, I must admit though I'd have preferred more smaller scenarios.

I will also vouch for SCWW1 for me it's gets the middle ground right between quick and easy Commander WW1 and the indepth WW1Gold.

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/14/2013 9:35:19 PM >


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(in reply to th1207)
Post #: 7
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:40:17 PM   
Gansey

 

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Is it not then possible to simulate the Naval Blockade of Germany in CTGW?

< Message edited by Gansey -- 1/14/2013 9:41:49 PM >

(in reply to th1207)
Post #: 8
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:41:58 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 20208
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Not sure Commander is more than bear and pretzels..well maybe a little, but I think there are more indepth WW1 games around..I reckon Decisive Campaigns Case Blue is what your after, it does have smaller scenarios and the linked campaign is really superb, I must admit though I'd have preferred more smaller scenarios.

I will also vouch for SCWW1 for me it's gets the middle ground right between quick and easy Commander WW1 and the indepth WW1Gold.
warspite1

What is the definition of a beer and pretzels game? Intuitively I wouldn't put CTGW in that bracket (You have to think carefully about every move) but as I don't know what the definition is I might be talking rubbish....as usual.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 9
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 9:43:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 20208
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gansey

Is it not then possible to simulate the Naval Blockade of Germany in CTGW?
warspite1

No - I suspect the effects of blockade are reflected elsewhere. As I say, the naval game could disappear completely and you wouldn't miss it ..because there isn't really one to miss

_____________________________

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(in reply to Gansey)
Post #: 10
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 10:10:12 PM   
Orm


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quote:

2. The Germans, French and Austrians get one 10-strength Cruiser counter. The British get two - whoopee.

The British gets three. I think you forgot the one in the Mediterranean.


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"Have you thought of going into teaching?"

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 11
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/14/2013 10:41:30 PM   
Wolfe


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From: Shropshire, UK
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Another recommendation for SCWW1 also although the title is WW1 you get a full WW2 in Europe Grand Campaign and can download smaller scale and quicker playing versions of WW2 as well plus it has operational level scenarios, with 20 more scenarios in the Breakthrough expansion which also includes The Russian Civil War and there are rumors of The Franco-Prussian War being added for free in an upcoming patch.

On the Matrix side I would recommend Gary Grigsby's World at War a World Divided.

_____________________________

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Post #: 12
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/15/2013 3:26:46 AM   
**budd**


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John Tillers campaign series sounds like something to fit the bill. East front, West front, and the pacific in one game. Various size campaigns and scenarios. You can play that one for years. Take a look at the forum and some AAR's. Also you can pick your level of command for the campaigns and there some nice mods to enhance the look.

< Message edited by **budd** -- 1/15/2013 3:35:53 AM >


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Wolfe)
Post #: 13
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/15/2013 5:52:47 AM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


[
. I have yet to see a British Admiral appear.....



To get your first Admiral, you need 20 naval kills and research all or nothing armor.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 14
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/15/2013 6:05:42 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 20208
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


[
. I have yet to see a British Admiral appear.....

To get your first Admiral, you need 20 naval kills and research all or nothing armor.
warspite1

My point is - you get Scheer quickly - you cannot get a British Admiral quickly.



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/15/2013 7:27:47 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




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RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/15/2013 9:49:07 AM   
wodin


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Joined: 4/20/2003
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beer and pretzels is a quick fun game that doesn't take to much learning, easy to play hard to master is a sign of beer and pretzels. It's not an insult really, some love it some don't. Axis and Allies is beer and pretzels so is Memoir '44..good fun games that aren't beyond anyone to learn and you can pick up and play quickly. They usually concentrate on thematic rather than complex rule systems..

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/15/2013 9:51:27 AM >


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RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/15/2013 4:02:39 PM   
doomtrader


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If Time of Fury's map seems to be too large, you might consider Strategic War in Europe, smaller and quicker but with the same depth under the hood.

(in reply to wodin)
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RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/15/2013 7:32:15 PM   
Gansey

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 10/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

John Tillers campaign series sounds like something to fit the bill. East front, West front, and the pacific in one game. Various size campaigns and scenarios. You can play that one for years. Take a look at the forum and some AAR's. Also you can pick your level of command for the campaigns and there some nice mods to enhance the look.


I used to play East Front in the last century for hundreds of hours. I assumed the games wouldn't run on Windows 7 but if thats not the case i would really like to see how the updated games look and play. Thanks for the tip.

< Message edited by Gansey -- 1/15/2013 7:33:17 PM >

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 18
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/16/2013 1:33:52 AM   
**budd**


Posts: 1550
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
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It's not on my playing plate at the moment but it is always on my hard drive. Runs fine on WIN 7 for me. There's alot of bang for your buck in that package.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Gansey)
Post #: 19
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/16/2013 11:54:00 PM   
Rtwfreak

 

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quote:

just the amount of units change but the actual gameplay is fairly repetitive.



That ^ sir is pretty much true in every game. Especially scenario/mission type wargames. Once you've played it a couple of times (each side) yes they all tend to fall into repetitiveness. This is why I almost always look for games that have a "random" generated map, and army types like a Panzer Command or a Steel Panthers or a Combat Mission. I mean how many different ways are there to take Poland, France, Africa in a WW2 atmosphere? The methods and templates are usually the same in every type of game of Grand Scale WW2. But, when you get down to the "tactical" level of them with random generated scenarios and stuff then and only then can you have a life long enjoyment of that same game and even though the gameplay is repetitive the starts and outcomes of them aren't.

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 20
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/19/2013 4:51:43 PM   
Misty

 

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From: Freiburg, Germany
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I bought DC:CB a few weeks ago. But after a few hours, I lost interest. It´s now too boring for me to move so many counters. 10 or 20 years ago I liked to play games like Second Front or War in Russia, but today with fast PC´s I want to tell the HQ´s what to defend or attack and let the AI do the moves. The only wargames I really like are BftB or CMBN.

(in reply to Rtwfreak)
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RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/20/2013 10:12:35 AM   
Gansey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misty

I bought DC:CB a few weeks ago. But after a few hours, I lost interest. It´s now too boring for me to move so many counters. 10 or 20 years ago I liked to play games like Second Front or War in Russia, but today with fast PC´s I want to tell the HQ´s what to defend or attack and let the AI do the moves. The only wargames I really like are BftB or CMBN.


If i was retired or so rich i didn't need to work then I might be prepared to spend many hours on something like DC Case Blue but with work and family commitments its just not possible to devote the necessary time and effort to learning a complex game system where it takes an hour to play a turn.

I am trying to decipher CMBN - what game is that?

(in reply to Misty)
Post #: 22
RE: Something more than beer 'n' pretzels but less than... - 1/20/2013 10:59:03 AM   
Misty

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/15/2003
From: Freiburg, Germany
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quote:

I am trying to decipher CMBN - what game is that?


Combat Mission: Battles of Normandy from Battlefront

(in reply to Gansey)
Post #: 23
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