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How can I refuel submarines at sea?

 
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How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 3:17:45 PM   
dennishe


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AO's don't work...
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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 3:23:36 PM   
Puhis

 

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I think you can't.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 3:46:56 PM   
dennishe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I think you can't.


I don't like that answer.
So my submarine is lost???

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 3:52:06 PM   
witpqs


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No refueling of subs at sea, period.

Is it lost? Don't know the situation. If it won't make it to a real base due to rate of damage accumulation, try sending a small xAK or tanker or something to a dot base. A non-TF/AO/YO would have to unload fuel, but a TK/AO could disband and then the sub could refuel from the base (serviced by the TK/AO/YO).

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 4:04:00 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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What about a submarine-tender (AS); tried that?

Klink, Oberst

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 4:04:00 PM   
dennishe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No refueling of subs at sea, period.

Is it lost? Don't know the situation. If it won't make it to a real base due to rate of damage accumulation, try sending a small xAK or tanker or something to a dot base. A non-TF/AO/YO would have to unload fuel, but a TK/AO could disband and then the sub could refuel from the base (serviced by the TK/AO/YO).


The situation is quite simple. It is at sea with no fuel...

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 4:18:32 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dennishe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No refueling of subs at sea, period.

Is it lost? Don't know the situation. If it won't make it to a real base due to rate of damage accumulation, try sending a small xAK or tanker or something to a dot base. A non-TF/AO/YO would have to unload fuel, but a TK/AO could disband and then the sub could refuel from the base (serviced by the TK/AO/YO).


The situation is quite simple. It is at sea with no fuel...

Distance from the nearest friendly base with fuel? Distance from the nearest friendly dot base? Feasibility of having a fuel source meet it as described above? You do know that out of fuel ships move, just very slowly, and accumulate damage fairly quickly.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 4:38:30 PM   
dennishe


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It is halfway PH and the West Coast far from any hexes. Fortunately I needed to withdraw it anyways. Now I'm hoping it sinks fast...

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 4:49:27 PM   
witpqs


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Ouch. Good luck.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 5:18:06 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dennishe

It is halfway PH and the West Coast far from any hexes. Fortunately I needed to withdraw it anyways. Now I'm hoping it sinks fast...

Send at least an AM or a tender to safe the gallant crew!!! :O

Klink, Oberst

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 5:29:10 PM   
dennishe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
Send at least an AM or a tender to safe the gallant crew!!! :O

Klink, Oberst


A Catalina dropped of a dinghy and two paddles...

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/13/2013 7:06:57 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Didn't see anyone respond to the suggestion to send a sub tender (AS) out to the sub, but no that won't help either. Subs can only be refueled at a base, period. Put it in cruise mode and send it towards the closest base. The sub will take system damage and probably sink anyway, but you've done all you could at that point.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/14/2013 4:29:29 AM   
bigred


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Didn't see anyone respond to the suggestion to send a sub tender (AS) out to the sub, but no that won't help either. Subs can only be refueled at a base, period. Put it in cruise mode and send it towards the closest base. The sub will take system damage and probably sink anyway, but you've done all you could at that point.

you could set it to full speed and sink it quick..

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/14/2013 8:18:39 AM   
rms1pa

 

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the AS would only help disbanded in a port or dot hex,sadly there are none BTW PH and SF i can see.

rms/pa

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/14/2013 12:13:36 PM   
dr.hal


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It's sad as the Germans refueled subs at sea later in the war quite regularly.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/14/2013 1:05:53 PM   
Puhis

 

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AS ships can't refuel subs, only reload torpedoes. Subs can only get fuel from ports.

I know that historically submarine tenders did refuel and resupplied subs at sea, but I guess this is game engine limitation.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/14/2013 1:59:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I know that historically submarine tenders did refuel and resupplied subs at sea, but I guess this is game engine limitation.


Not in the US Navy. The game is correct.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/15/2013 2:40:19 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dennishe

It is halfway PH and the West Coast far from any hexes. Fortunately I needed to withdraw it anyways. Now I'm hoping it sinks fast...

To quote wartime propaganda posters "Don't give up the ship [or boat]".
Subs are very tough and damage will not accumulate as fast as a surface ship. It takes over a month for an intact sub to accumulate enough system damage to sink. At one hex per day, that is 30 hexes toward your nearest base. I think that gets you pretty close to the west coast, if not there. Once in a dockyard, the system damage repairs very quickly - say two weeks for 90 system damage.
You don't lose anything by continuing to the nearest hex with your fingers crossed for luck.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/15/2013 2:57:20 AM   
PaxMondo


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Any ship out of fuel moves one hex each turn.  Eventually it will reach port unless attacked.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/15/2013 2:58:44 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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Painting of "Don't give up the ship!" moment.







Attachment (1)

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/15/2013 12:27:21 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Any ship out of fuel moves one hex each turn.  Eventually it will reach port unless attacked.



Don't they also accumulate damage?

If that is so, then they make take sufficient damage to sink them before they reach port if the distance to cover is great.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/17/2013 12:35:11 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Any ship out of fuel moves one hex each turn.  Eventually it will reach port unless attacked.



Don't they also accumulate damage?

If that is so, then they make take sufficient damage to sink them before they reach port if the distance to cover is great.

I don't think so. I've had ships run out of fuel near Koepang and make it all the way to Perth, the closest port with fuel. So if they accumulate damage, it isn't much because that was like 50 turns or so to make that trip.*

*It was a little AM I think that had only like 600 range ... trying to go from Batavia to Perth.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/17/2013 10:39:43 PM   
Treetop64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I know that historically submarine tenders did refuel and resupplied subs at sea, but I guess this is game engine limitation.


Not in the US Navy. The game is correct.



Only the Kriegsmarine did this, and only with a few other U-boats loaded with fuel, and this was done more out of desperation since their boats were eventually being sunk left and right, and were forced to keep what boats they had left out on patrols for longer periods to compensate. Sub tenders only tended to subs at port, usually where shore facilities weren't adequate for this.

Not a limitation of the game engine since TFs can be refuelled at sea. I suspect it's simply a deliberate design limitation to keep players from keeping their subs at sea forever.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/17/2013 11:27:41 PM   
crsutton


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Here is a thought. Can you just send a few other subs out and combine them with the out of fuel sub into a TF and then click the replenish at sea button? A regular TF will result in the other ships sharing their fuel. Dunno if it will work for subs.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/18/2013 12:21:43 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Any ship out of fuel moves one hex each turn.  Eventually it will reach port unless attacked.



Don't they also accumulate damage?

If that is so, then they make take sufficient damage to sink them before they reach port if the distance to cover is great.

I don't think so. I've had ships run out of fuel near Koepang and make it all the way to Perth, the closest port with fuel. So if they accumulate damage, it isn't much because that was like 50 turns or so to make that trip.*

*It was a little AM I think that had only like 600 range ... trying to go from Batavia to Perth.


Subs do accumulate damage when out of fuel, and quite quickly. I had a midget sub delivery going and forgot about the mother ship. It sat for a few weeks in the same spot and ran out of fuel. It had some damage when I began moving it back from South of Fiji, and only made it to Ndeni because it travelled the last few hexes at 99 damage. (I've just now, probably over 6 months later, begun moving it to Truk, and it still is at 78 system damage).

I've had all kinds of ships run out of fuel and collect damage though. It definitely can sink the ship.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/18/2013 12:51:48 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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I have one S boat that has been stuck on a little atoll south of the Marshalls for 16 months after they ran out of gas. I probably should have just sent them to Fiji and fixed the damage later but now I am curious to see if they can spend the whole war there.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/18/2013 3:42:21 AM   
AirGriff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I have one S boat that has been stuck on a little atoll south of the Marshalls for 16 months after they ran out of gas. I probably should have just sent them to Fiji and fixed the damage later but now I am curious to see if they can spend the whole war there.



Ha! Give it a try. True story--One of my neighbor's dad was on a DD that was sunk in the PI. It was either a torpedo from a sub or a kamikaze, she can't remember, but that's what I gathered from the bits and pieces she told me. Anyway, her dad and the sad to say few survivors made it to one of the islands. They spent a leisurely month or two among the natives before they finally decided to look for "rescue". Sounded like they had a pretty nice time being shipwrecked. So, what the heck...let that sub of yours hang out!

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/18/2013 5:02:28 AM   
jmalter

 

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ughfortunately, the mortally-wounded Capt. Lawrence's shipmates were forced to 'give up the ship'. USS Chesapeake was decisively defeated by HMS Shannon after a furious 15-minute cannonade/boarding action (1 June 1813). the British buried him at Halifax w/ military honors.

Oliver Perry named his brig 'USS Lawrence' in memory of his dead friend, & fought her under the banner "Don't Give Up the Ship" at the battle of Lake Erie (10 September 1813). USS Lawrence was badly damaged, but Perry transferred to her sister, USS Niagara, & achieved a Nelsonian victory over the British squadron. his subsequent dispatch to headquarters provided another famous phrase to our young navy's history: "We have met the enemy and they are ours."

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/18/2013 1:19:43 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

ughfortunately, the mortally-wounded Capt. Lawrence's shipmates were forced to 'give up the ship'. USS Chesapeake was decisively defeated by HMS Shannon after a furious 15-minute cannonade/boarding action (1 June 1813). the British buried him at Halifax w/ military honors.

Oliver Perry named his brig 'USS Lawrence' in memory of his dead friend, & fought her under the banner "Don't Give Up the Ship" at the battle of Lake Erie (10 September 1813). USS Lawrence was badly damaged, but Perry transferred to her sister, USS Niagara, & achieved a Nelsonian victory over the British squadron. his subsequent dispatch to headquarters provided another famous phrase to our young navy's history: "We have met the enemy and they are ours."


All true.

This battle, which lasted at most fifteen minutes, is among the bloodiest in the history of ship-to-ship combat. It was also mentioned in Robert Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" wherein Chesapeake's third lieutenant--a billet not a rank--left his battlestation to help carry mortaly wounded Lawrence below. In the boarding melee the officers senior to him were killed and he became the commanding oficer while belowdecks. He was later court martialed for leaving his station without orders during battle and being absent while commanding officer.

Lawrence has had several USN ships named for him, the last being a guided missile cruiser I believe.

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RE: How can I refuel submarines at sea? - 1/18/2013 2:13:50 PM   
AW1Steve


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US submarines refueled seaplanes, exchanged cargo , parts and passengers by rubber boat , and attempted to pull each other off rocks. What is so terribly impossible to imagine one US sub crew trying to help another in extremis? This is the same service that in the 1920's SAILED a sub back to PH that had run out of fuel. Frankly , I feel this is simply a limitation that was chosen by the developers to either limit the game or because of coding issues. Like the issue of NOT being able to use USMC Raiders in the purpose they were designed, (as sub borne raiders) while using USMC para's in the Raider role, we need to "suck it up" , adjust, and live with it. It is a fact of the game. No house rule can fix it.


The fact is , all but the most anal retentive will probably lose a sub or two. Maybe the JFB's will consider this and throw the occassional bone to the AFB in "gamey" discussions or house rule negoitiations. Game limitations will affect both sides. If looked at as single issues , one side or the other will scream "unfair". If you take all the issues and put them in a pot together , it pretty much comes out equal.

To me , this is just one more example of why people who truly love this game should consider a "shut up and play" attitude .

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