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German rebuild units moral

 
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German rebuild units moral - 1/11/2013 3:52:00 PM   
Blubel

 

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The manual states in section 18.1.1.2. that German units, which were destroyed and are now rebuild, have a starting moral of 30 + (NM/4) + random (NM/4).
This translates in 1941 to 30 + 18 + random (75/4). So the moral value of the unit should never be under 48, right? If this is true, it doesn't work as stated.

< Message edited by Blubel -- 1/11/2013 3:53:59 PM >
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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/11/2013 4:03:01 PM   
morvael


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quote:

The morale of newly created units is then calculated by taking the build unit morale and multiplying by the morale help level divided by 100. This build morale value is then used in the formula - ((build morale/4) +20) + (rnd((build morale/4) +20)) to derive the unit morale. This value cannot be less than 20 or greater than 50. The experience for the unit’s initial ground elements is calculated by taking the unit’s morale divided by two and adding five.
Newly created Soviet Ski units receive a morale bonus over the current national morale based on the date as follows: +5 in Sept 42, +10 in Sept 43, and +15 in Sept 44.
v1.05.18 - September 6, 2011
Build morale now equals national morale in all cases (there is no separate build morale table anymore).


I'd say it should be (assuming 75/4 is 18): 18 + 20 + rnd(18+20), which gives numbers from 39 to 76, which is then cut over 50.

Sorry, it pertains to new units.

For rebuilding German unit I see it's 30+(NM/4)+random(NM/4) in 20..60 range. So it shoud be 48+rnd(18), something in range 49..60.

< Message edited by morvael -- 1/11/2013 4:05:35 PM >

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/11/2013 8:52:21 PM   
Pelton

 

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Morale will grow to (1-2) 50 fast then slow (0-1 50%) to 60. 15 to 20 turns to gain back the 10 to 60.

Then you will have a 2% chance of gaining a pt above 60.

SHC units gain morale 1-2 per turn to NM no matter how high.

Basicly you have to win battles above 55 as GHC.

I have 100's of turns of data to back this up.

It is by design.

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22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/12/2013 1:45:04 PM   
Blubel

 

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Thanks guys.

But Pelton, if it is as I outlined above, then it either doesn't work as disigned, or the manual is wrong. :)

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/12/2013 4:01:28 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blubel

Thanks guys.

But Pelton, if it is as I outlined above, then it either doesn't work as disigned, or the manual is wrong. :)


If you are saying you see a case where the morale of a rebuilt unit is below 48 in '41 then please attach a save file that repeats the problem and we'll look at it. Thanks.

Moving this to Tech Support.

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/12/2013 5:38:10 PM   
Blubel

 

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Thanks.

Atttached is a file showing the problem. I've seen it in a multiplayer game and don't play the Ai anymore, so this is a set up game to show the problem. Two of the rebuild divisions have a moral value which should not be possible.

Attachment (1)

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/12/2013 7:10:20 PM   
elmo3

 

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OK will take a look some time this weekend.

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/12/2013 8:50:21 PM   
Blubel

 

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Thanks.

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/13/2013 4:12:46 PM   
elmo3

 

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Not sure yet if this is a bug or not.

What difficulty level are you using for the Axis side in your game? The Morale Level modifier will affect a wide range of morale related numbers including National Morale, the amount morale will go up or down, and leader morale checks. Also there are hidden morale rolls during the logistics phase that can affect morale so that might be why you are seeing morale for a rebuilt unit being lower than expected.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 1/13/2013 4:13:45 PM >


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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/13/2013 4:45:04 PM   
Blubel

 

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I'm using only normal settings, so everything is set to 100. What moral checks are there that would cause it to decline in this circumstance? I'm only aware of the one that they are out of reach of their commanding HQ. I'll try what happens if I put OKH to Germany and a good leader into it.

*Edit*

Did as said. Put Kluge in charge of OKH and put it into Germany. Then I got the divisions to surrender. Of the 12 rebuild divisions 9 are within range of OKH. 3 have a moral value which should not be possible.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Blubel -- 1/13/2013 4:57:00 PM >

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/13/2013 7:55:19 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blubel

...What moral checks are there that would cause it to decline in this circumstance?...


I don't know exactly what checks are done but section 9.1.1 says:

quote:

Units which are missing morale and fatigue rolls can lose morale during logistic phase.



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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/14/2013 4:57:06 PM   
Blubel

 

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Ok. But the divisions are under a HQ and one would have to loose 7 moral points, while being under a commander with a moral rating of 9. Another one would have to lose 6 points. I wouldn't think that probable.

< Message edited by Blubel -- 1/14/2013 4:58:18 PM >

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/14/2013 7:42:41 PM   
elmo3

 

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That does seem like a lot, but as I said above, with some hidden morale checks going on it will be difficult for me to confirm this one way or the other. I've asked for some guidance from 2by3. Either way it's not a game breaker so it's unclear how much effort can be put into tracking it down at this point, given the focus on WitW.

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Post #: 13
RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/15/2013 6:04:42 PM   
elmo3

 

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Added to the bug list as BG0118.

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/16/2013 8:42:55 AM   
Blubel

 

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Thank you for your continued effort!

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/17/2013 11:55:13 AM   
elmo3

 

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Gary looked at this and feels it is working as intended. What happens is that a German unit gets rebuilt immediately after it is destroyed but you don't see it until after the next German logistics phase. It is rebuilt initially with no supply so due to that and other checks made during the logistics phase the unit's morale can get reduced below 48 if the checks fail. I ran a test and confirmed that the initial morale was above 48 but that it can get reduced below that after the logistics phase. Hope that clears it up.

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/17/2013 1:16:35 PM   
Blubel

 

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Yes, it does. Thanks.

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RE: German rebuild units moral - 1/18/2013 11:17:53 PM   
elmo3

 

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Gary looked further at this and confirmed there was indeed a bug. The Axis was only using 20+ in the formula instead of 30+. This will be fixed in the next update. BG0118.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 1/19/2013 12:20:23 AM >


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We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

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