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What's chapping me about DC

 
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What's chapping me about DC - 1/4/2013 3:02:27 AM   
Astyanax

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline 		I am not a super grog when it comes to PC wargames, though I have been known to tackle a session or two of ASL on the table top. So please bear with me as I elucidate the problem I am having with DC. I am a stickler for clarity of cause and effect. If I make an attack, a bombardment, or an air assault, I like to know what effect said attack has. Otherwise I find it very hard to get a feel for the mechanics. DC combat screen is very basic, just listing the number of rounds, and if the individual units retreat or take wounds and if regiments panic/retreat etc.

You can always dig into the detail screen if you're interested in some real dissection, but there is no way to tell at a glance what the effects are.

Shouldn't there be a screen that tells you: unit readiness went from x to y, morale from a to b, structural points from c to d. Am I missing something here?

Also, I don't really like the trend of roots up combat simulation. What's wrong with a CRT based on combat factors? Much easier to understand, and I'm not sure what extra insight micro-simulation yields to the game model. It's not even really explained in the manual.

Please tell me why I am wrong; seriously. I want to enjoy this game as I like shuffling the chits about. Just find combat frustrating.
Post #: 1
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 1/4/2013 4:10:58 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

I had the same problem as you at first. I would not be able to see the effect of my combats through the combat screen. However, I did figure out how to compensate for that. First of all, I can see the readiness/morale/entrenchement factors right on the enemy units (if my recon is high enough, and it will be if I bomb the hex with air). I can go to the stat window and choose any type of unit I want and see how many I killed (total) for the turn (or all turns).

A given combat for me starts with an air attack, to loosen up the defenders a bit and to get a high recon value on the hex. I then decide on which artillery I will bombard with. I will then examine the defenders to see if I really want to attack or not. In particular, I check the Readiness and Entrenchment levels. If I deem them low enough, I then attack without exceeding my stacking point limit.

After retreating the enemy, I will then try very hard to attack those retreated units again. Even if I have to play a speed card. Their morale will be lower, their readiness will be very low, and they will have little or no entrenchment. I call this the double-tap, and it will usually result in broken and panicked units.

If not, then I will decide if the enemy is strong enough to counterattack if I take the hex..if so, then I will not bother advancing. If the hex contains terrain, I will take it (with fresh troops if I can) and play an entrenchment card to dig in.

Anyways, the information you seek is fairly easy to find, you just wont see it 'on the fly' while you attack.

_____________________________

To the right General Patton, to the left the British Army, to the rear our own artillery, and besides all that its raining. And the only good thing to say about the weather: it keeps our air corps from blowing us all to Hell because its too lousy to fly.

(in reply to Astyanax)
Post #: 2
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 1/5/2013 10:31:06 PM   
Bismarck2761

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 11/24/2012
Status: offline 		Agree with LiquidSky. It takes some experience with the game, but you can then get a feel for what is going on.

Question: Which is better to play cards that increase experience on? Army HQs (for their card effects) or Corps HQs? Raus has taken over an army but his experience is low.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 3
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 1/8/2013 9:47:29 PM   
BK6583

 

Posts: 267
Joined: 10/8/2002
Status: offline 		Well now that I've played this a bit I wanted to add to this. The overall combat results display is still IMHO rather inadeaquate. When the AI is going through its turn and fights a battle, you see clearly displayed at the bottom of the screen a detailed summary of the total forces, by type, attacking and defending, and more importantly, the losses on both sides by type. Why can't this display be used when it's my turn and I'm fighting and resolving battles?

(in reply to Astyanax)
Post #: 4
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 1/9/2013 11:12:04 AM   
Isokron

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 7/31/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BK6583

Well now that I've played this a bit I wanted to add to this. The overall combat results display is still IMHO rather inadeaquate. When the AI is going through its turn and fights a battle, you see clearly displayed at the bottom of the screen a detailed summary of the total forces, by type, attacking and defending, and more importantly, the losses on both sides by type. Why can't this display be used when it's my turn and I'm fighting and resolving battles?


You already have all the info about losses etc in the standard combat display (red numbers), although broken down per unit instead of summed up. I would much rather have the standard+detailed combat display available for the opponents attacks since you now have no idea why they went as they went.

(in reply to BK6583)
Post #: 5
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 1/9/2013 9:46:29 PM   
BK6583

 

Posts: 267
Joined: 10/8/2002
Status: offline
quote:

You already have all the info about losses etc in the standard combat display (red numbers), although broken down per unit instead of summed up. I would much rather have the standard+detailed combat display available for the opponents attacks since you now have no idea why they went as they went.


quote:

You already have all the info about losses etc in the standard combat display (red numbers), although broken down per unit instead of summed up. I would much rather have the standard+detailed combat display available for the opponents attacks since you now have no idea why they went as they went.


Point taken - but the red numbers don't translate directly to actual looses. I once saw a red "1" German plane icon after an air attack. I looked at the actual air uniot (ME-109) and what it actually meant was that I lost 5 planes. I still would like to able to see actual losses from my battles just like I see when the AI's battles are executed.


(in reply to Isokron)
Post #: 6
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 1/10/2013 10:49:53 AM   
Isokron

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 7/31/2012
Status: offline 		The red numbers are in stackpoints (correct term?), one stackpoint of airplanes = 5 airplanes, 1 stackpoint of infantry = 100men etc.

(in reply to BK6583)
Post #: 7
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 1/10/2013 10:09:57 PM   
BK6583

 

Posts: 267
Joined: 10/8/2002
Status: offline 		Got it. I'm lazy - I really don't want to sit there and claculate losses in my head - I still would very much like a summary like I get when the AI fights a battle. :-)

(in reply to Isokron)
Post #: 8
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 2/17/2013 5:23:43 PM   
Grognerd

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Looking at the quick combat results screen you can tell allot.
The Russians retreated and lost 3 steps of an original 14 steps (each step is about 100ish troops I think.) Lost one artillery step too,
The editor shows 27 infantry steps in a full strength German Inf regiment.
The first German Infantry Reg. had 3 steps retreat out of 23 total
The second German Infantry Reg. lost one step out of 24 total (now 23) and so on.
Seems there is pretty good information in the quick screen to tell what just happened in a combat.





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< Message edited by Grognerd -- 2/17/2013 5:24:47 PM >

(in reply to BK6583)
Post #: 9
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 2/17/2013 6:27:03 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1126
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline 		Well, it still will be more readable to also have a casualty count, in this case 400 men for Germans, 600 men 5 guns for Russians, isn't it ?

(in reply to Grognerd)
Post #: 10
RE: What's chapping me about DC - 2/17/2013 7:23:17 PM   
Grognerd

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Seems more like 200 men for the Germans. Messing with the editor helps figuring the step loss equivalents out. Full strength German infantry regiment is 27 steps which is 2700 men on map. 100 per step. I did not look at the Russians they might be different. 5 guns seems right but I guess I would look into the editor to review the Russian step loss equivalents.
The 60 actions points remaining might be a little easier to read (for the Germans).
It tells me enough to know when I made a costly attack in terms of my own losses and how much I hurt the enemy.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 11
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