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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42

 
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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 2/26/2013 5:56:39 PM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		Alexander the guy who made the new PZ 1F for the game said He was working on an American Lee tank did you plan on using it in this campaign or did you even know He was working on modeling that tank.

< Message edited by Dane49 -- 2/26/2013 6:08:08 PM >

(in reply to flashburn)
Post #: 31
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 2/26/2013 6:02:44 PM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		Hi FB,

Nice commanding view there from the top of the hill.A German 88mm FLAK piece would really dominate from up there.Don't know if 88mm FLAK guns were actually used during the battle but a battery was attached to the armoured elements of the German 7th Pz. reg. that counterattacked and retook the hill on Christmas.

I don't know alot about the battle,but as I recall the British attacked Longstop hill first and routed some newly arrived to Tunisia German Inf from the hill,then the American 1st bat. 18 reg. with tank support was suppose to move up and relieve the Brits on the hill and take the nearby RR station in the valley.A German mech. unit counterattacked and destroyed 1 Inf company of the American 1/18 reg. and beseiged the rest around the hill and the Brits were called back to lend a hand and help stabilize the situation.

There were some Frenchies in the battle,but they had no AT weapons and were routed immediately by the German tank attack which eventually ended up securing the hill for the German side.It seems it rained alot during the battle also and air support didn't figure much into the battle ,radios got wet and malfunctioned the hills screwed with radio reception and minefields,poor recon all added to what essentially was turning the battle into a goat f**k for the Allied side.

You said this was essentially going to be an Infantry battle,so I take it your not going to include the American assault on the RR station or the counter attack by the German 7th Pz. reg.
I like Infantry battles so this battle sounds real good as a starter campaign for Tunisia.also I'd be interested in seeing a screen shot of the operations map to get an idea of the scope of the battle area you plan to represent.

Off topic-The Russians have a 85mm AA gun in APOS that looks alot like the 88mm german FLAK gun.It's in the encyclopedia but I can't find it in any of the campaigns for the game.Any clues about what campaign battle it is used in.

(in reply to flashburn)
Post #: 32
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 2/26/2013 11:39:15 PM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		Indeed I do know about Alex's m3 lee. I was going to model that thing but after my total duplication of work in SABOW withe the m113's........ Well it did not have an m106 so there. Anyways I check with Andrey before I started......he let me know about that. But the M4 is MINE! Actualy m4a1 DV and m4a1 versions. Well that will be awhile.......and vary few m4 Shermans at the sharp pointy end yet. US armored units where mainly m3 lee and m3 stuarts. The armored stuff was limited in scope due to the rain and mud. Apos also allready has m3a1 stuart. Mues has an m3 scout car......also Alex. I am slowly working on m3 half track family. :D So while there was an armored assualt to the halte and its railroad station it was quite small numbering 13 unknown type of tanks. My guess is m3 stuarts? As to 88 up there......no. The Germans never put much up there actually. However could see whole valley leading out of Medjez el Bab. Could call doen arty on whatever they saw. The Germans felt no one would try and just drive tanks up there to kick them off...... Well that happened later....with British Churchhills doing the kicking. And ya....the inital French deal of them getting kicked out of the Halte area I am not bothering with. Infantry with no AT weapons VS tanks does not equal fun game play. As to why the Germans did not deploy the big toys...... My guess is 1. The weather the tiger tank guys..sp whatever 501 was probably somewhere in tourbuba waiting to see wtf would happen. Likly dug in 88's around there. Economy of force and depth of defense sort of stuff. 2. if the tigers went off road.....good luck getting them out of the mud. Germans where still buildign up force to resist. they had enough to hold and do some counter attacking......what pushed the allies back into Medjez el Bab. But I dought they had enough of everything to exploit the weaknesses. Also the Britsh attempting to flank around to tourbuba in hills just north......

In the end, this flop stopped the allies from marching up the Valley and taking Tunis in Jan 43. Would extend the fighting out to MAY do to this. THe green US forces which where less than great over all at this time (some BIG exceptions company and battalion levels) quickly reorganised and got there crap together and came out swinging a few months later. And did not stop until Germany fell.

Barring some money falling from the sky......this will be awhile before done. TONS AND TONS To do on the map. If I am lucky 2 months from now the bulk of map should be done. The campagins shoudl be somewhat fast to make, but require alot of testing. Thats the great thing about trying to remake history in game land.....just got to copy. :D Then theres all the model stuff. As few veichle are needed at first for this it simplifies things. I have alot of the odd and ends for US infantry allready so thats good. Hopefully no more big backwards steps ..................... That was at least a month down the crapper.

Ya that 85 never gets used.........no clue as to why. I guess no historical units to game had them.

(in reply to Dane49)
Post #: 33
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 2/27/2013 12:48:40 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		I did a QB earlier today to see how effective the 85mm is.

Used the Volokonovka map and had a battery of 3 guns with an AT Rifle platoon defending the battery against A german platoon of medium tanks and 2 platoons of armoured APC inf in the attack.

The Germans got their ass handed to them,the attack made it half way across an open field and fell apart,flamming wrecks everywhere and a bunch of surrendering and panicked infantry running around in circles a real nightmare to watch.

The 85mm is a good gun and I suspect the 88mm FLAK is even deadlier,which is probably why Graviteam hasn't bothered to model one yet

(in reply to flashburn)
Post #: 34
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/1/2013 11:44:12 PM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		Ok it the 1st of march..........update time ! :D




MY favorite hill EVER...ok I am getting sick of it. BUT it is looking better everyday. As to the other 10 or square KM well hmmmm.....LOTS TO DO!

(in reply to Dane49)
Post #: 35
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/2/2013 1:03:50 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		It's comming along very well.So far lately your stuff for the game is about the only thing I have to look forward too.

The Hi res mod/DLC isn't much of an improvement and the Nomanhan battle isn't a battle I particularly care for either.
Graviteams new marketing strategy is leaving me a little perplexed.Last year saw some real improvements with new campaigns,graphics and maps.
This year looks a little thread bare.Sinyavino 42 is having map issues and may not be released till the end of the year or maybe never.
I have absolutely no idea where on the Mius front the next campaign is suppose to take place,I've asked Andrey that question countless times and He treats it like some kind of closely guarded military secret.

I think somebody at Graviteam needs to take some marketing classes!I'm starting to lose interest in the game and not just for the lack of info on up and comming projects,but with the whole new direction they seem to be taking with the game.
IDK,maybe they think we like surprises and want to wait till the absolute last minute to release all the info for these new maps and campaigns that they are working on.

Lately though,I've been playing Combat Mission Normandy just for a change of scenery and I don't even like that game.I bought it before I discovered APK43 which was an OK game,but it wasn't much better than CM except for the large maps.After APOS came out and improved last year with all the new patchs' and updates I shelved CM( I thought for good).I can't believe I'm actually playing that game again just to look at something different for awhile.

At least Battlefront knows how to market their games even though the product sucks.I'll never buy another one of their games that is unless someone in their graohics dept. gets the boot and is replaced by a more competent artist and the whole micro manage every single aspect of the game play mechanics changes.But I still follow their projects with interest because I like the subject matter and choice of campaign theatres.Something I'm having a hard time with now as far as interest goes for Graviteams new choice of campaign theatres.

OK,rant over.
Get back to work on your Tunisia project

(in reply to flashburn)
Post #: 36
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/2/2013 2:39:34 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
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From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		The Mues front thing and lack of info COULD be a non discloser signed between them and some other entity...... Or who knows. I have not heard anything in while about Nomanhan........but I do want to play this one. Something not touched is always good IMO. WHy they are silent more than ever..........who knows. Perhaps fear of evil publishers stealing more stuff of theirs? The new texture pack DLC......ya I am a bit perplexed at this one.


Sinyavino 42........I did not know about this being all stalled.

As for meus......I have no idea when the projected release date will be..... Which is sort of odd at this point. Could be its close but some issue or another. Just more ???????????

(in reply to Dane49)
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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/2/2013 7:48:47 PM   
flashburn


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From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cause Andrey asked me about flora.......... :D LOTS AND LOTS TO DO!

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/2/2013 8:26:42 PM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		Tunisia always reminds me of some of the desert scrub regions of the American South West.Glad to see Andrey taking an active interest in this project.

< Message edited by Dane49 -- 3/2/2013 8:28:43 PM >

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Post #: 39
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/2/2013 10:57:30 PM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline
RR station Northern Tunisia

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 12:54:16 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
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From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		That photo has what appears to be a catured field modified T-19 self propelled howiter. I think. Looks odd for an m3 75mm GMC.

(in reply to Dane49)
Post #: 41
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 2:25:36 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		I think it is a T30 75mm howitzer HMC

< Message edited by Dane49 -- 3/3/2013 3:18:33 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 4:44:47 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		More photos same RR Station Sidi Nsir Jan.1943

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 4:46:13 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		More photos same RR Station Sidi Nsir Jan.1943

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 4:47:14 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		More photos same RR Station Sidi Nsir Jan.1943

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 6:00:31 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		where did you find those photos?????

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 6:12:57 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		http://newikis.com/en/commons_Category:Photographs_by_Appe,_PK.html

That's one place also google-Bundesarchiv Tunisien,there is probably more around that I haven't looked at yet in the Bundesarchiv

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Post #: 47
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 8:44:43 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		I have never bothered to look for photos of area and time frame from German perspective. I should most certainly do that.

(in reply to Dane49)
Post #: 48
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/3/2013 8:04:56 PM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		The caption for this picture says top of Longstop hill looking West into area where the British and Americans attacked from in Dec. 1942

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< Message edited by Dane49 -- 3/3/2013 8:19:08 PM >

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Post #: 49
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/4/2013 1:20:48 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		From the Army at Dawn websight :D. Ya seen this one. I would kill to be able to have hill this dense with bushes. Not gonna happen as lap tops/older puters will explode. :D It also shows that I still need to tweek my materials on the polygon. Also if April after long winter of rain........well I guess it would be this green. Time life photos elude to this as well. As for NOV DEC....... the Black and white I have seen I simply can not tell. SO likly game land compromise and do something in middle between this green and summer. Which is probably going to end up pretty close to correct colors....


GEEK ALERT!

What is intereting is they the way GRAVI decided to do rendered land scapes. The norm is you make textures and blend with a map. In GRAVI games you do not do any of this. It looks at the heimap and what is set up in your seasons file. Then when you render it allpies what it thinks it should be. Its pretty neat really. But vary complex. ANd getting JUST what your after in certain places is a pain! Like the sunny side of longstop... BAck side as nice green patches.........sunny side it likes to put sand. Vary UGH. Still have not figured out how to get what I am after.

Also how the way engine is set up to account down to the meter in land areas. I would kill for some those uber costly satelite data sets that are down to below 1 meter accuracy. I would have ALOT less to do. Have to recreate by hand with 1:25000 scale contour maps the the details on hills....... I hope it ends up looking somewhat correct...........

< Message edited by flashburn -- 3/4/2013 1:30:06 AM >

(in reply to Dane49)
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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/4/2013 1:37:41 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		Those fields kind of remind me of the Summer Volokonovka map,until I saw this picture yesterday I had no idea how ferile that area looked,I was a little suprised it was so bright green I expected to see more olive draps and burnt yellows definately not like a desert which most people would associate with a Tunisian landscape.Which probably explains why Carthage and Rome fought so heavily over this place and why the French colonized it.

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/4/2013 3:00:13 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		yep.............

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/5/2013 2:59:10 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
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From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline


I am going to be at this for awhile....................................................

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RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/5/2013 5:27:25 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		Map is looking good.

Who knows,if you become good at this at least at production level standards,maybe Graviteam can contract you to make new maps for the game.
I think once there are Brits and Americans for the game,Graviteam should start concentrating more on new maps and campaigns.

There is already enough content as far as vehicles and guns to simulate 100s of battles between 1941-43,but hardly enough maps to accomodate the different battles.

How many different versions of the T-26 or KV do we need in the game?

Don't get me wrong,I like the new toys also,but I like new maps even more and would prefer them over anything else if given the choice.

(in reply to flashburn)
Post #: 54
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/6/2013 2:01:34 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		With the different versions of tanks.........and other stuff too. I actually really like it:D. But remember that usually the guy that makes stuff like maps is not the guy that does models and textures. So if you have a modeler with nothing more important to do........go make him do other versions of vehicles. If you have the base model, it is pretty fast to do different versions.

On maps YES!!! could not agree more. Which is a few people that begged that Gravi thought might actually pull off a map where given editor. But it is MASSIVLY time consuming and requires a lot of base knowledge of gameland stuff. Also of the 6 people who where given NONE as released a map yet....... And 4 gave up or never really got started.

For a map like volkonova.........the smallest one for sure. It took like 2 - 3 months of work to get done....... and that was folks who knew WTF they where doing. :D

and todays screenie.............. Everything subject to change and improvement......or unimprovement.




Another December morning in Tunisia. Every day a little closer and I get a little faster. :D

I am getting sick of dealing with plants................. So strating back on more land form and adding in details not picked up from satelite maps. Its vary boring..........

< Message edited by flashburn -- 3/6/2013 2:03:42 AM >

(in reply to Dane49)
Post #: 55
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/6/2013 3:03:00 AM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		Time to cross train those guys working on the tanks and put them to work planting vegitation on the maps.Just kidding!

Yeah,I guess it would be more difficult to do the maps,especially if only one guy on the team is the only one doing them,probably need a good understanding of geology and the effects of erosion to get a really good looking map.

I use to draw a bunch of maps for boardgames using the cyberboard software and remember how tedious and long term those projects were,while all the time trying to stay focused and not let other interests distract me.

Lots of motivation and energy going into a project,but once the tedium sets in and your doing the same thing over and over again for hours on end,it tends to bog a project down and makes it harder and harder to come back to and everything and anything else starts to seem more interesting.

(in reply to flashburn)
Post #: 56
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/8/2013 10:11:32 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline

Heres what I have been working on the last couple days........... BORING stuff :D All the draws and minor hill features where not picked up well at all in satilite data. Been putting in by hand. AND THERES A HELL OF ALOT!!!!!!!

(in reply to Dane49)
Post #: 57
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/8/2013 10:41:42 PM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		Reworking flora for longstop project. This is a test attempting to figure out best combo o real world and gameland realities. Image at top right is google earth taken in AUG. THE end of the HOT season so its vary burned...lol. Alas no google earth images taken during winter or spring that are any good, but photos show VARY green indeed during winter/spring. Anyhow.....heres the test for folks like myself that find this stuff interesting........


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Post #: 58
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/8/2013 11:31:14 PM   
Dane49

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 6/26/2012
From: Riverview ,Florida
Status: offline 		FB Google medjerda valley tunisia images for some color screenshots during winter.I think you'll find some interesting photos to look at regarding your map.

Try this site also http://picasaweb.google.com/112616546304271977045/20070527TUNISIADOUGGATRIP#

< Message edited by Dane49 -- 3/8/2013 11:45:57 PM >

(in reply to flashburn)
Post #: 59
RE: Project Golf course OR Battle at Longstop hill 42 - 3/9/2013 12:48:11 AM   
flashburn


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/19/2012
From: WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Status: offline 		LOL I love the old Carthege ruins. Alas all are JUST outside of operations area.........or I might be tempted to throw some in for the hell of it. Hannable Barka anyone? LOL. Where are the Romans to but everyone to the blade and salt the fields to make sure Cartheridge never rises AGAIN after the last and FINAL punic war. Something to rememebr about area I am doing...... Was the seat of a GREAT empire once and a rival to ROME. How they fell after they lost the final punic war..........

(in reply to Dane49)
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