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Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes

 
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Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/2/2013 4:58:50 AM   
KarlT

 

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In short, the game crashes and/or freezes constantly... it's plain unplayable as multiplayer.
And any CC players who respect themselves as CC veterans will not play against the AI.

My buddy and I have been playing CC online since CC4, but this time we just quit! We started our CC-PitF multiplayer grand campaign, and all went fine for the first couple battles. Then for the past three days, we have tried repeatedly to keep playing our GC, to no avail... freezes in battles and even error message.
It just beyond frustration! As much as we wished and tried again and again to play YOUR game, it failed us.
We have wasted our money, and now our time.
It's the last CC game we will be purchasing, no more goodwill on our parts, no more! Time to move on...

Karl (aka: Xyphorus)

< Message edited by KarlT -- 1/2/2013 4:10:28 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/2/2013 7:21:45 AM   
WoT

 

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Have you both installed the rushed out HOTFIX?


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3228088

quote:

It's the last CC game we will be purchasing, no more goodwill on our parts, no more! Time to move on...


You signed on as a beta tester so why gripe?

(in reply to KarlT)
Post #: 2
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/2/2013 4:05:14 PM   
KarlT

 

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Everything is current, game has been patched by both parties.
Both games are obviously legit and purchased through Matrix
It's just unplayable, and God knows we spend countless hours trying to play it in order to get our CC's GC fix... to no avail. We're both CC vets so to speak, having played H2H CC since the old days. In short we're the guys to always be counted on to purchase a new version of CC, to play a new mods, etc...

We NEITHER signed on as beta testers, nor beta tested CC PitF. What will make you think so? Well, I guess we now are all beta testers after shelling $40.00.

Gripe you said? We just paid for a game whose multiplayer function is unplayable, spent hours and hours trying to play it... We've earned our money prior to wasting it on this game, and our free-time is valuable as well.
We are passed the gripping part, gripping that was for CC3. This time it's different. No more cash cow, no more CC.
I'm done!

Karl

(in reply to WoT)
Post #: 3
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/2/2013 6:18:54 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Hi Karl,

This does sound like the issue addressed in the hotfix, but can you please provide more information on what you're seeing?

What is the error message you mentioned in your first post?

Can you please ZIP and upload your saved game file?  I can look at it and try and reproduce the problem.

Thanks,

Steve

(in reply to KarlT)
Post #: 4
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/3/2013 6:06:16 PM   
KarlT

 

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Hello Steve,

The Hotfix definitively fixed 'internal error message' experienced in the single player mode.

The constant H2H game freezes occurred on the second strategic turn of the GC, always on the same map.
We tried 3 times to play the turn over two nights, to no avail. When it froze, we waited patiently then the host player got a message saying that his opponent has left. We both tested our connections, and all was green.
We resolved the issue by issue a 'truce' prior to experiencing yet another 'freeze'on this particular map. Next came Hill #? map(the hill in front of Mortain). Game went smooth, then I used my airstrike as defender (Allied), my opponent used his as attacker (Axis)... his game froze, and I received an 'Error message' in a box (different from the message the Hotfix solved). I clicked the box which brought me back to the main menu. My opponent's screen stayed frozen until he bailed out.
Martin lives in Edmonton Canada, and I in Miami USA. Martin has always been the host player.

Please find the zipped GC file attached.

Thanks,

Karl


Attachment (1)

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 5
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/3/2013 9:33:41 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Thanks, I will take a look at the file.  Please verify that you both have the hotfix EXE installed, as it sounds like all the crashes are on the client side?  This would make me suspect some difference in game files.  Are either of you using any modified files (like no fog)?  if so, you both need indentical files for multiplayer.

(in reply to KarlT)
Post #: 6
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 2:28:08 PM   
rmdesantis


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Steve - I have to echo what Karl is saying. My friend and I (and yes, we both have the hot fix installed) have had repeated issues with playing H2H on the campaign game. I posted my most recent frustration in another thread (multiplayer - don't buy it). For us, we have to continually restart the game. We get freezes in battles (sometimes we both freeze, sometime one of us bombs out causing the other to freeze - no real pattern other than frustration on our part), and most recently a full crash with error message (see my other post for details).

Frankly, I am astonished that nobody in your beta test bothered to test H2H the campaign game (meaning actually playing multiple battles over several "days"). While H2H may work for individual battles, going on to multiple battles in a session proves to be problematic in some way for the program. Like Karl, we feel that we are paying for the privilege of testing your program. This isn't the way business is supposed to operate. We've been playing CC for over a decade (since the original CC2 - we own them all) and we know that there have been problems with the program along the way in various forms. In most cases, we have found work-arounds for the "idiosyncrasies" of the software, but we can't do that if we just get crashes mid-game. I don't have a saved game to send you because we were able to continue playing after multiple restarts, but it really shouldn't work this way.

I don't know if these problems trace to the lobby, but it does add another layer of complexity that nobody asked for (other than the management at Matrix/Slitherine). Your company's insistence on forcing people to go through the lobby leaves a very bad taste in my mouth - while offering it as an option may make business sense to help with the technically challenged, it makes no sense to your existing customers. I have been in business for over 30 years and we always place a premium on our returning customers - it is so much more expensive to try to find new customers than keep old ones. Your company, however, is turning that on its head and insists on causing grief to returning customers in the hope of attracting new ones. That may turn out to be a very expensive proposition for you if you really think that you can reinvent the consumer model that has proven itself for a century.


Mike

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 7
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 4:52:55 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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rmdesantis / Mike,

Thank you for your feedback. I am happy to help you troubleshoot your multi-player issues here in the tech support forum, if you wish to do so.

Since the hotfix the most common head to head crash issue I've dealt with is one player using the 'no fog' mod and the other not. This will cause the games to get out of sync if you're playing a campaign game and you come to a turn where one player's game thinks there is fog and the other does not. So that would be my first suggestion. The fact that you're seeing the problem on turn #2 (which many campaigns is the first turn with fog) also makes me suspect this may be the case.

The game saves automatically after every battle, so you should have a saved game file in your Windows documents folder. If you can ZIP the saved game and send it to me, along with a description of when you're seeing a crash I will investigate it more detail.

Steve

(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 8
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 5:52:43 PM   
rmdesantis


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Steve
We play mod-free (we prefer our CC just as it comes out of the box). And as I mentioned, we were able, after about 10 minutes of finagling through the lobby, to reconnect and continue the game so now the saved game is at a point where it works. However, there does not seem to be a pattern of when the game will freeze and crash and when it works fine. In the past, when there was a freeze it was generally because one or the other of us had a line issue and we could trace the problem to that - now, of course, we can't do that so troubleshooting is not really possible on that front. What I can do, I suppose, is to save the game the next time it crashes and send that to you.

But beyond this, just think of what we're talking about. While it's great that you're willing to help, it seems to me that we're working this backwards - why are customers having to work on debugging this? You had to issue a hotfix within days of launch because the product wasn't adequately tested for a real-world environment. We're just a few weeks into the life of the product and you've got your hands full trying to figure out why things aren't working for people. It seems like it's hit or miss, but it shouldn't be that way if the product was properly vetted. So while I guess I can continue to provide data when it fails, I don't know why this becomes my burden - I (and all your customers) paid good money for a product with the expectation that it would work as intended/advertised. I can understand the business driver to get a product out before Xmas to take advantage of a prime selling season, but when it comes out and sputters as this one has, it just leaves a very bad impression of the company as a whole.

Mike

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 9
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 6:21:31 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Mike,

I understand that a problem like this is frustrating. Many players have and are playing multi-player without the problems you're seeing.  So at this point my goal is to try and help you with the technical issue and to correct the issue if it is in the product. To do this, I need to get information from you. If you wish to pursue this, I am happy to work with you.  If you're not interested in troubleshooting the issue, then I am not sure how I can help you.  If you have other feedback you'd like to pass on to Matrix Games you can send it to their Help Desk at http://www.matrixgames.com/support/

Thanks,

Steve

(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 10
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 7:06:15 PM   
davidss

 

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it's too bad some are experiencing problems ... hopefully it can be troubleshot and corrected.
I personally haven't had any problems with the lobby or connections ... except when the other player knew they had a poor connection or computer problem.

I've even played through battles knowing that one person had fog edited off and the other didn't ... and it played perfect. In this case, the host had fog and I had edited fog off ... the result was we both had fog.

Also, about the lobby system ... didn't CC players want a new "zone" where they could have a CC exclusive chat area and a place to connect to each other?

< Message edited by davidss -- 1/4/2013 7:20:07 PM >

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 11
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 7:33:52 PM   
mooxe


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Back in the day people wanted a CC exclusive zone type meeting area. It seemed practical back then as there were many players, but the player base was steadily shrinking. Having everyone under one roof would of made it easier to find a game as the theory went. BattleHQ brought this, but didn't compete well with GameSpy or GameRanger. So anyways Matrix/Slitherine are trying to reinvent the wheel again when most H2H games from all versions of Close Combat are already played on GameRanger. PiTF was the last game of this engine.... why did they change multiplayer....... why not just build on whats already in place.



The Slitherine Lobby has its benefits. It bypasses firewalls, well so does GameRanger. I do not have ports open in my router and I can host and join. GR works for like 99% of the players. I am really laughing though at the Slitherine Multiplayer forum. It takes things people say in the lobby and posts them to the forum. How short sighted is this now? Just another example of these off the cuff decisions on multiplayer. You now have a forum filled with topics like, "are you there," "hi," "where are you from." On and on.. Its funny! Oh and you have to press enter twice to send a message... Close Combat is from the 1990's but we dont have to simulate the archaic lobbies from back then!



_____________________________

VVV
http://www.closecombatseries.net

Play all versions of Close Combat at www.gameranger.com.

(in reply to davidss)
Post #: 12
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 7:53:00 PM   
rmdesantis


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Like I said, Steve, I'll have to save a mid-stream game fault file for you when it comes up. While I appreciate your troubleshooting, I would like to know how extensively the campaign H2H feature was tested. When I asked before, the response I got was that it wasn't tested at all (just H2H for single battles). Do you know how it was tested?

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 13
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/4/2013 8:11:48 PM   
davidss

 

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I understand the benefits of GameRanger (I like it too), but one thing it can't do ... is stop pirating. Maybe that's why they decided to use their own connect system, like most other modern games.

Maybe a nice compromise would be to allow IP connect in a final patch ... if servers go offline :)

Also, about the lobby and the Match Making Forum:
1.typing in the lobby chat area connects all lobby participants to the same conversation (like the old zone)

2.hitting the enter button connects you to this chat session. if you hit enter again without typing a message, then you exit the chat. but if you at first hit enter and then type a message and hit enter again ... your message enters the chat conversation.

3.the Match Making Forum is separate from the chat area. It's seems like a good idea to me, now that I realize it's a direct copy of an online forum. So you could post your user name "in game" along with your time zone, etc ... and/or review other players info while you are "in game" waiting to find a friend/opponent. You could also do this forum stuff "out of game" via the web.
I think some people just don't realize it's different from the lobby chat function. 

Maybe a forum admin could start a Username / Time Zone topic as a sticky that would appear at the top of the forum

4.if you click on a name in the lobby, that name becomes highlighted with a box around it ... and in doing so, you have the option to invite that player to a game by clicking the now available host button

Suggestion, if possible ... allow lobby participants to see how many games are in progress, and perhaps the players involved. Otherwise, at times, it seems like you are in an empty room ... or are you?

< Message edited by davidss -- 1/4/2013 8:31:42 PM >

(in reply to mooxe)
Post #: 14
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/5/2013 11:14:21 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmdesantis

Like I said, Steve, I'll have to save a mid-stream game fault file for you when it comes up. While I appreciate your troubleshooting, I would like to know how extensively the campaign H2H feature was tested. When I asked before, the response I got was that it wasn't tested at all (just H2H for single battles). Do you know how it was tested?


Yes, multi-player campaigns and operations were tested. I suspect the problem you're running into may not be directly related to multi-player, but that it is something you might also see single player. Which is why I wanted to have the saved game file to look at. Note that this file should still exist on the host machine even if the game crashes. As I said it is auto-saved every turn.


(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 15
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/6/2013 1:07:02 PM   
rmdesantis


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Steve - we played beyond that point. Do you still want to see the file?

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 16
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/6/2013 11:11:24 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Yes, please.

(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 17
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/7/2013 12:19:58 AM   
rmdesantis


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Here you are


Attachment (1)

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 18
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/7/2013 5:21:49 PM   
KarlT

 

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Hello,

IMO, Mike very successfully summarized our general feeling. Hence using the terms of goodwill being wasted to the point of non return.

Mike, when you wrote that you passed the freezing/error message in your H2H GC, what do you mean by this? Did you play it until you were finally able to successively complete a battle, and the issues never duplicated themselves again? On our part, it's just unplayable... we tried over and over again, different nights and so forth, to no avail, to the point where frustration was just too much to handle.
What is incomprehensible to me as a business owner, is how can a reputable and legitimate software company asked $40 per game and deliver a grossly unplayable H2H game? Seriously! We've never posted and/or publicly complained about any CC games, just dealt with all its shortcomings simply because of it uniqueness. I think we have reached our limit. We both have busy lives, yet we always found free time for H2H CC's GC. As reasonable grown-up's we just came to realize that our money has this time been spent unwisely, and it won't happen a second time.
As Mooxe put it, "why did they change multiplayer....... why not just build on whats already in place". All what we were asking was a H2H playable GC and direct IP connection option, and we would most likely have faithfully purchased the next CC edition. Anyways...

Steve,
I confirm that we both use vanilla version of the game, both patched it with the 'Hotfix' and also used the automatic patch option. We do not used any 'fog' mod. Just the game your company SOLD us.
Thanks,

Karl

(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 19
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/7/2013 9:55:23 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmdesantis

Here you are


Thanks. I will take a look.

(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 20
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/8/2013 3:57:40 AM   
rmdesantis


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Karl
The game will freeze mid-battle requiring us to restart. Sometimes we get an error message (I posted it on a separate thread). We re-start the software which means we have to refight the battle. This allows us to proceed one or two battles, and then the process (freeze/bomb out) repeats. So we cycle through things and are only able to play with much frustration.

Mike

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 21
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/8/2013 10:36:23 PM   
VonManstein


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KarlT

Hello,

IMO, Mike very successfully summarized our general feeling. Hence using the terms of goodwill being wasted to the point of non return.

Mike, when you wrote that you passed the freezing/error message in your H2H GC, what do you mean by this? Did you play it until you were finally able to successively complete a battle, and the issues never duplicated themselves again? On our part, it's just unplayable... we tried over and over again, different nights and so forth, to no avail, to the point where frustration was just too much to handle.
What is incomprehensible to me as a business owner, is how can a reputable and legitimate software company asked $40 per game and deliver a grossly unplayable H2H game? Seriously! We've never posted and/or publicly complained about any CC games, just dealt with all its shortcomings simply because of it uniqueness. I think we have reached our limit. We both have busy lives, yet we always found free time for H2H CC's GC. As reasonable grown-up's we just came to realize that our money has this time been spent unwisely, and it won't happen a second time.
As Mooxe put it, "why did they change multiplayer....... why not just build on whats already in place". All what we were asking was a H2H playable GC and direct IP connection option, and we would most likely have faithfully purchased the next CC edition. Anyways...

Steve,
I confirm that we both use vanilla version of the game, both patched it with the 'Hotfix' and also used the automatic patch option. We do not used any 'fog' mod. Just the game your company SOLD us.
Thanks,

Karl

I agree with you. Please, restore direct IP connection option in the next patch

_____________________________

"Si vis pacem, para bellum"

(in reply to KarlT)
Post #: 22
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/9/2013 9:43:49 PM   
KarlT

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmdesantis

Karl
The game will freeze mid-battle requiring us to restart. Sometimes we get an error message (I posted it on a separate thread). We re-start the software which means we have to refight the battle. This allows us to proceed one or two battles, and then the process (freeze/bomb out) repeats. So we cycle through things and are only able to play with much frustration.

Mike


Oh boy, you guys are VERY patient! As you so eloquently put it, CC vets are used to deal with the "idiosyncrasies of the software", but this time it's just too much. Such an old software is supposed to improve, not regress in its play ability, certainly not at the price we've paid for it. Never before any CC's H2H GG has been unplayable for us, it's like anything we have experienced in the past.
Replaying the battle over and over again wastes the surprise advantage one opponent may have had over the other. Plus it takes a lot of time to do so, if one can deal with the mounting frustration.
My feelings is that the H2H GG has not been beta-tested in length as we are attempting to do it: meaning battle after battle and turn after turn, extensively using all options of the game until the last day of the campaign. IMO, this is plain shameful.

Thanks,

K

(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 23
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/9/2013 10:56:53 PM   
mooxe


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One thing I have done in the past with H2H GCs is rebuild the battle. We only rebuild the territory lost/taken. If there was some significant game changing loss, (say all the mortars in the BG were lost in that battle) we would recreate the lossby running/driving the unit in question down a street to be mowed down. Most rebuilds though just involve recapping the land. Atleast you get to move on!

In my experience only reapping land and ignoring unit losses usually benefits both sides equally in the long run.

< Message edited by mooxe -- 1/9/2013 10:57:54 PM >


_____________________________

VVV
http://www.closecombatseries.net

Play all versions of Close Combat at www.gameranger.com.

(in reply to KarlT)
Post #: 24
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/10/2013 1:56:29 PM   
rmdesantis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mooxe

One thing I have done in the past with H2H GCs is rebuild the battle. We only rebuild the territory lost/taken. If there was some significant game changing loss, (say all the mortars in the BG were lost in that battle) we would recreate the lossby running/driving the unit in question down a street to be mowed down. Most rebuilds though just involve recapping the land. Atleast you get to move on!

In my experience only reapping land and ignoring unit losses usually benefits both sides equally in the long run.


We do the same thing in order to speed up our game play. I guess it's a common-sense approach to the challenges of the program. And yes, we try to be patient because the two of us have been friends for almost 50 years and it is less about the mechanics of the game and more about being able to spend some time talking/complaining/hanging out (even though we are far apart). It would be nice, though, if we could complain about something other than the game.

(in reply to mooxe)
Post #: 25
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/15/2013 5:43:46 PM   
KarlT

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Thanks, I will take a look at the file.  Please verify that you both have the hotfix EXE installed, as it sounds like all the crashes are on the client side?  This would make me suspect some difference in game files.  Are either of you using any modified files (like no fog)?  if so, you both need indentical files for multiplayer.



Hello Steve,

Did you get a chance to look at the file? If yes, what transpired form it?
Thanks,

K

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 26
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/15/2013 8:56:16 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KarlT


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Thanks, I will take a look at the file.  Please verify that you both have the hotfix EXE installed, as it sounds like all the crashes are on the client side?  This would make me suspect some difference in game files.  Are either of you using any modified files (like no fog)?  if so, you both need indentical files for multiplayer.



Hello Steve,

Did you get a chance to look at the file? If yes, what transpired form it?
Thanks,


Hi Karl. I've looked at the file under the current build (under development and internal testing) and it seems fine. Are you still experiencing the original problem or have things been okay since you were first able to progress?

Steve

(in reply to KarlT)
Post #: 27
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/15/2013 9:11:08 PM   
KarlT

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire


quote:

ORIGINAL: KarlT


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Thanks, I will take a look at the file.  Please verify that you both have the hotfix EXE installed, as it sounds like all the crashes are on the client side?  This would make me suspect some difference in game files.  Are either of you using any modified files (like no fog)?  if so, you both need indentical files for multiplayer.



Hello Steve,

Did you get a chance to look at the file? If yes, what transpired form it?
Thanks,


Hi Karl. I've looked at the file under the current build (under development and internal testing) and it seems fine. Are you still experiencing the original problem or have things been okay since you were first able to progress?

Steve



We're stuck! And we just don't have the motivation to start a new GC all over again... I'll try to get Martin to try it out one more time, but he's pretty much fed up. Can't blame the guy though.
In the past we used to find 'ways around' CC's shortcoming, but not this time.
Thanks,

K

PS: On THAT map/battle using our file, have both testers used their air strikes?

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 28
RE: Multiplayer constant crashes and freezes - 1/16/2013 8:46:12 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarlT

We're stuck! And we just don't have the motivation to start a new GC all over again... I'll try to get Martin to try it out one more time, but he's pretty much fed up. Can't blame the guy though.
In the past we used to find 'ways around' CC's shortcoming, but not this time.
Thanks,

K

PS: On THAT map/battle using our file, have both testers used their air strikes?


Sorry to hear that. There is a new update coming ASAP that I hope will resolve this, given that it appears to be working fine for me under that build. And yes, I did play the next battle in your saved game file (Hill 314) multi-player and used both sides airstrikes.

(in reply to KarlT)
Post #: 29
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