Naval Game ?

Commander - The Great War is the latest release in the popular and playable Commander series of historical strategy games. Gamers will enjoy a huge hex based campaign map that stretches from the USA in the west, Africa and Arabia to the south, Scandinavia to the north and the Urals to the east on a new engine that is more efficient and fully supports widescreen resolutions.
Commander – The Great War features a Grand Campaign covering the whole of World War I from the invasion of Belgium on August 5, 1914 to the Armistice on the 11th of November 1918 in addition to 16 different unit types including Infantry, Cavalry, Armoured Cars and Tanks, Artillery, Railroad Guns and Armoured Trains and more!

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kirk23
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Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

Hi I'm sitting on the fence about this game,thinking about buying but the naval game concerns me.

1st Question = What are the starting fleet strenghts of the major nations.

2nd Question = How does the game treat different capital ship types,ie Pre-Dreadnoughts,Dreadnoughts & Battlecruisers.

3rd Question = How easy is it to add new unit types if I need to mod the game.
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Myrddraal
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by Myrddraal »

The naval element of the game, it has been pointed out, is not as strong as the land war side. If it helps at all, we're looking at things we can do in patches to improve it. Here's some answers to your specific questions.

1) Will get back to you on this one, I'm not on the right machine (unless someone else gets there first)

2) The game has three unit types to represent the different fleets: Cruiser, Battleship & Submarine. Each of these units represents a fleet rather than an individual ship (in the same way that land unit counters represent armies with all the trimmings (including field artillery). There are also different naval technologies available for research.

3) It's entirely possible, and I would consider it easy, but given that I'm a dev, I guess it would be best to get an answer from someone who has had a crack at modding. It's certainly very easy indeed to edit the existing units (new name, stats, graphics etc).
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kirk23
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

Cheers thanks for reply,I will have to investigate the game more,read more within the forum,I'm 85% certain I will buy the game because I like the look of it,and its a time period I really like,the naval game does bother me thou,I understand the concept of ships are not individual ships,but the counters represent fleets,that said so how many Battleships + escorts = 1 fleet. How many fleets of Battleships does Britain have at game start ?

Does Britain have Dreadnought fleets,Pre-Dreadnought fleets & the Battlecruiser fleet ?

Britain's primary service is the Navy during this time period,the Army & Air Corp were of secondary importance,
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warspite1
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by warspite1 »

Hi kirk23

I would love the developers to do more with the naval rules - if only so you can add your brilliant artwork to them [&o]

Re your questions, for game balance purposes the major navies all start with one 10-strength Battlefleet [8|]. The only advantage the Royal Navy get, over the German player, is an extra cruiser counter....[&:]

I fully understand the developers concentrating on the land war but the naval aspect has not been really thought out at all and the naval counters and sizing are sorely lacking.

That said, the developers are working on it and I would still recommend this game to anyone - it really is great fun.

Now Maitland, now's your time!

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kirk23
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

Hi warspite 1,

Thanks for the compliment regarding my artwork,I would like to do something with the naval art for this game also [:)]

As for Britain only having 1 Battlefleet I can only repeat what John McEnroe famously shouted YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS !![&:]

I'm afraid to say thats nuts ! By the looks of it the naval game does not need tweeking,it needs a complete overhaul [:@]

So 1 Battleship Counter represents anything from a 4 Squadron sized unit - over 90 Battleships that Britain had at war start,sorry to say but I think the lunatics have taken over the assylum this is wrong totally wrong,who cares about game balance,so Britains sea power equates to 1 Battleship counter,I'm speechless!!!!

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kirk23
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

What different naval technologies are available for research in game terms ?
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warspite1
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by warspite1 »

Anti-torpedo bulges
Seaplane tender
ASW
Dual Shaft Propulsion

I think these are the four.
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kirk23
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

I think I will buy the game even thou I have major concerns about the naval aspect,Its a new game so it can only improve I feel.[;)]
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warspite1
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: kirk23

I think I will buy the game even thou I have major concerns about the naval aspect,Its a new game so it can only improve I feel.[;)]
warspite1

I hope you won't be disappointed - I'm sure you won't!!
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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kirk23
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

If or should I say when I buy the game,I will be modding it to include different unit types naval wise,Pre-Dreadnoughts & Dreadnoughts are not really compatible in the same fleet,anyway I like a challenge.[8D]



UPDATE = I just bought a copy of the game,I'm downloading the update as I write this.[:)]
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by micha1100 »

ORIGINAL: kirk23
As for Britain only having 1 Battlefleet I can only repeat what John McEnroe famously shouted YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS !![&:]
...

Apparently this was done intentionally by the developers:
ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

historical background is of course hugely important and we know the numbers, but if we go this route, basically GB will shoot everything out of the water with a breeze...

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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

ORIGINAL: micha1100

ORIGINAL: kirk23
As for Britain only having 1 Battlefleet I can only repeat what John McEnroe famously shouted YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS !![&:]
...

Apparently this was done intentionally by the developers:
ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

historical background is of course hugely important and we know the numbers, but if we go this route, basically GB will shoot everything out of the water with a breeze...


Well I must say I disagree with the logic,GB won't shoot everything out of the water with a breeze,mainly because Naval warfare is much more difficult than land warfare,for a start the firing ranges were in miles,usually in poor visability and moving at 20 plus knots,with a result that the chance of hitting a moving target was approx 5% - 10% with of course the weaker force withdrawing under the cover of a smoke screen,so the solution is simple,add the correct number of ship units to the game,but reduce the combat chance of hitting anything!

Also with regard to Germany,the High Seas Fleet for the most part had better armoured,better hull subdivision anti-torpedo protection,plus better range finder optical lenses!
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by micha1100 »

ORIGINAL: kirk23
...
Well I must say I disagree with the logic...

So do I, actually I disagree with how the game handles a lot of things. But I was basically told that the game designers decided that playability and balance have a much higher priority than realism and historical accuracy and I guess we have to accept that.
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by kirk23 »

ORIGINAL: micha1100

ORIGINAL: kirk23
...
Well I must say I disagree with the logic...

So do I, actually I disagree with how the game handles a lot of things. But I was basically told that the game designers decided that playability and balance have a much higher priority than realism and historical accuracy and I guess we have to accept that.

If I can mod it I will,.I don't have to accept anything,if I don't like it, I change it, and if I can't change it, it gets binned simples!
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by JJKettunen »

ORIGINAL: micha1100

ORIGINAL: kirk23
...
Well I must say I disagree with the logic...

So do I, actually I disagree with how the game handles a lot of things. But I was basically told that the game designers decided that playability and balance have a much higher priority than realism and historical accuracy and I guess we have to accept that.

Imagine if this was a boardgame. Would people be bitching about the design philosophy, or accept it and actually play it (if it is playable, as is in this case)?
Jyri Kettunen

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warspite1
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Keke

ORIGINAL: micha1100

ORIGINAL: kirk23
...
Well I must say I disagree with the logic...

So do I, actually I disagree with how the game handles a lot of things. But I was basically told that the game designers decided that playability and balance have a much higher priority than realism and historical accuracy and I guess we have to accept that.

Imagine if this was a boardgame. Would people be bitching about the design philosophy, or accept it and actually play it (if it is playable, as is in this case)?
warspite1

I hope its not seen as bitching by the developers of this great game. But there is no harm in suggesting ways of trying to make it even better. Quite frankly, I would pay for add-ons that increase the scope and detail of the game. Afterall, players of the World In Flames series do that.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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Aurelian
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: kirk23


Also with regard to Germany,the High Seas Fleet for the most part had better armoured,better hull subdivision anti-torpedo protection,plus better range finder optical lenses!

They shot better at the beginning of an engagement, but started to fall off the longer it went on, while the Brits were the opposite IIRC.
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warspite1
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: kirk23


Also with regard to Germany,the High Seas Fleet for the most part had better armoured,better hull subdivision anti-torpedo protection,plus better range finder optical lenses!

They shot better at the beginning of an engagement, but started to fall off the longer it went on, while the Brits were the opposite IIRC.
warspite1

Well that's a bit of a problem isn't it? - because there is no guarantee that your still going to be around in one piece later if the other guy is hitting you but you're not hitting him [;)]

Now Maitland, now's your time!

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Mike Parker
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by Mike Parker »

I would love to see the naval aspect expanded. Perhaps have each hvy ship type represent 4 vessels (plus attendant smaller ships). This would allow an Ottoman Pre-DN counter to appear. One would have to seriously tone down shore bombardment I would think.. or maybe not considering ammo restrictions.

I wouldn't know how many cruiser type ships for each counter, I only know the hvy ship counts from the old AH game Jutland and some light research.
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RE: Naval Game ?

Post by JJKettunen »

Indeed scaling down the unit efficiency would allow more naval units (I would think).
Jyri Kettunen

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