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Manpower Bug?

 
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Manpower Bug? - 12/27/2012 12:58:43 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
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It could just be me, but something doesn't seem right.

From turns 70 to 76 GHC OOB went from 3,522,000 to 3,472,000 only 2 turns had fighting and 4 were mud. Fighting has been light. reports say I lost 35,000ish the last 2 tunrs of fighting.

Ready rifle squads also dropped by 500? Why?

2 divisions were withdrawn and 4 new ones arrived, so should be a plus.

I also have 70k in armaments and 164,000 men stuck in the manpower pool?

SHC attacked all last summer (light tempo) and GHC manpower pool was at 40k to 70k almost every turn.

I don't understand why OOB dropped during mud season and manpower pools are rising? Most units are in supply even during mud, refit is on to most units with reserve on to most armor/Mot units. refit was on to ALL units during mud turns.

Server game Pelton vs MT




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< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/27/2012 1:16:29 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk
Post #: 1
RE: Not sure but something seems wrong? - 12/27/2012 1:00:49 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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Feel free to jump on server I will leave it on same turn so you can check it out.

Then I will complete turn.

MT can flip his and we can check over #'s again to see if there is a trend?

Up to you guys you know the ins and outs 1000 times more then I do.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 2
RE: Not sure but something seems wrong? - 12/27/2012 1:02:34 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
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This is all areas and also seems really high.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 3
RE: Not sure but something seems wrong? - 12/27/2012 1:04:09 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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Also I know there is an issue with GHC trucks being lost or atleast someone said there was SJ I beleive.

Not sure what my truck #'s should look like at this point, but I will check old PBeM games.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 4
Manpower Bug? - 12/27/2012 1:11:22 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
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Game vs Hugh same turn, 76 before GHC moves.

German only Production screen




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/27/2012 1:19:43 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 5
Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 1:15:28 PM   
Pelton

 

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Hugh is attacking more then MT and winning higher % so there should be more units in manpower pool in Hughs game then MT's.

Also my lines are to the east much more in Hughs game.

Reserve ect setting are basicly the same in both games.

If you need any other SS let me know.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/27/2012 1:19:20 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 6
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 1:21:34 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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Also why are there so many men stuck in the all pools and 100k in armament pts?

SS in Post #3

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/27/2012 1:22:26 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 7
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 1:50:45 PM   
elmo3

 

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Joined: 1/22/2002
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For some reason I'm not finding your game on the server. What Slitherine account names are you and your opponent using?

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 8
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 3:32:35 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

For some reason I'm not finding your game on the server. What Slitherine account names are you and your opponent using?


Peltonx vs MichaelT


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 9
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 3:47:35 PM   
elmo3

 

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OK,got it. Probably won't have time to look at it today. We're getting snow here in the Northeast US and when I get done shoveling the kids will want to go sledding.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 10
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 6:00:14 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

OK,got it. Probably won't have time to look at it today. We're getting snow here in the Northeast US and when I get done shoveling the kids will want to go sledding.


I live in Maine. My "kids" work so I am driving round in this winter fun. My wifes out delivering mail hehehe.

I wish my kids wanted me to go sliding still.

Injoy them while you can they grow up fast.

Injoy your family, this stuff can wait.

Just let me know when its ok for me to do the current turn

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/27/2012 6:17:01 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 11
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 6:39:35 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21370
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
First off, the vehicle issue was only a scenario data issue. This was reported in the 43-45 campaignwhere some reinforcement units were not arriving with vehicles. As far as we could tell this problem does not exist in the 41-45 campaign where reinforcements arrive with vehicles.

As for the manpower, my guess is that since you are bouncing around at a low armaments level, this is causing inefficiences in the replacement system so you are not using as much manpower as you could. That's just a guess though. Other explanations are that high levels of activity prior to mud left you with large numbers of damaged elements which are now returning to the pool but being in mud, it's harder to get the replacements back to the front. There is so much going on in the system that you have to expect a certain amount of friction. Once your armaments go up, and clear weather returns I'd expect you would see the manpower pool drop.

As for the total numbers, check each country. My guess is you have a few allies with 0 armaments and lots of men, and some with lots of armaments and no men. With the Germans low on armaments, there won't be a lot of armaments given to the allies, and the allies don't give them to each other.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 12
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 9:07:04 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2370
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From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
I think Joel is right. There is nothing wrong. My situation is similar. I just put it down to bad weather inhibiting the flow to the front. Move on.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 13
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 9:37:01 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
...

Just let me know when its ok for me to do the current turn


I got the download so go ahead and do the turn.


_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 14
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 10:49:51 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

First off, the vehicle issue was only a scenario data issue. This was reported in the 43-45 campaignwhere some reinforcement units were not arriving with vehicles. As far as we could tell this problem does not exist in the 41-45 campaign where reinforcements arrive with vehicles.

As for the manpower, my guess is that since you are bouncing around at a low armaments level, this is causing inefficiences in the replacement system so you are not using as much manpower as you could. That's just a guess though. Other explanations are that high levels of activity prior to mud left you with large numbers of damaged elements which are now returning to the pool but being in mud, it's harder to get the replacements back to the front. There is so much going on in the system that you have to expect a certain amount of friction. Once your armaments go up, and clear weather returns I'd expect you would see the manpower pool drop.

As for the total numbers, check each country. My guess is you have a few allies with 0 armaments and lots of men, and some with lots of armaments and no men. With the Germans low on armaments, there won't be a lot of armaments given to the allies, and the allies don't give them to each other.


Thats simply not true.

When armements were at 0 for 10 turns manpwer pools were at 40-50k as I explained.

The 1st turn of mud armaments were at 400 and growing to 76k.

So your explaination is not based on the data I have provided.

My manpower and armament pools have been growing from the first turn of mud to 2 turns of snow and OOB has been sinking for no reason.

Also JB my game vs Hugh has a much higher tempo the MT's game and hugh is winning a much higher % of battles and I have 17k in man power pool.

Something is simply way off in this game.

I have played allot of games past this date and none have had armements and manpower pools growing with this light of a tempo. And whats up with the dropping manpower OOB?

Something is off what I don't know myself, but it simply doesn't add up.

I keep going as elmo3 has taken time to copy files.

Thanks bro

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 15
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 10:54:26 PM   
morvael


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From: Poland
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I always understood that with higher movement cost, the supply is less efficient during mud turns, which leads to accumulation of men and material in the pool (they are produced faster than they are sent out, even if there are units waiting for them).

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 16
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/27/2012 10:58:51 PM   
Denniss

 

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From: Germany, Hannover (region)
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How many of this manpower is in the active pool? I bet a lot of it is in transfer pool.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 17
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/28/2012 9:26:28 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

How many of this manpower is in the active pool? I bet a lot of it is in transfer pool.



23k in transit and 140k in active. Elmo has copies if you dont beleive me.

Also morvael, why is it just this game? Post #5 is of another game same turn, only 17k in pools.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 18
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/28/2012 11:01:51 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21370
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From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
It's very hard to say what's going on. You should track it for a few turns and see how things progress. Lee should periodically grab a save from the server. Server games are tough becuase the best save is one from your opponent right before they end their turn so we can view a logistics phase in progress. Do you have many units in refit mode? Have you looked at the log phase report to get a sense of men coming and going during the phases?

As for the totals, did you look and confirm that the manpower and armaments are mostly from Allies that have one but not the other, or have mostly full strength units?

The numbers you are dealing with are still low enough that it could be just the friction in the system. If the numbers continue to grow in the active pool while not in mud then I'd start to worry.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 19
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/28/2012 9:44:24 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

It's very hard to say what's going on. You should track it for a few turns and see how things progress. Lee should periodically grab a save from the server. Server games are tough becuase the best save is one from your opponent right before they end their turn so we can view a logistics phase in progress. Do you have many units in refit mode? Have you looked at the log phase report to get a sense of men coming and going during the phases?

As for the totals, did you look and confirm that the manpower and armaments are mostly from Allies that have one but not the other, or have mostly full strength units?

The numbers you are dealing with are still low enough that it could be just the friction in the system. If the numbers continue to grow in the active pool while not in mud then I'd start to worry.



MT has it now so I would say get it now off server.

I have allot in refit mode

The first pict is German only and 2nd pic allies. 3rd picture is from another game german only same turn.

Your last point about Mud is why I came to tech support

We have had 2 snow turns and the armaments and manpower pool have grown each turn UNLIKE any of the other 6 games I have gooten to this point in the past.

I will see what happens next turn, but grab it off server while MT has it

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 20
RE: Manpower pool bug? - 12/29/2012 9:29:50 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21370
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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You have to look at each Allied country separately to see if it is short on manpower or armaments, or has both in the pool.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 21
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:05:55 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Armaments went up and so have men in pool again and my OOB dropped by 30,000 !!!!

The fighting is very light vs MT

In my game vs Hugh hes attacking 30 times a turn winning 20 and my OOB is going up 10k a turn for last 5 turns!!!! Its the same turn, some thing is very very wrong.

1. OOB is dropping
2. armaments going up
3. men in pool going up
4. doesn't add up.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 22
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:08:03 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Huns have 160,000 manpower in pool and 110,000 armaments

So same issue.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 23
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:10:16 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
active pool




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 24
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:10:58 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
transit pool




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 25
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:14:17 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
I think this has been going on for a while from the totals and amount per turn of increases, probably 15 to 17 turns which is from before .22 patch.

Based on my test game my OOB should be close to 3.8 million and not 3.4. I am over 3.6 vs Hugh and like I pointed out fighting tempo is 2x - 3x times as high.

Not sure whats up but you guys have 2 turns to look at.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 26
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:15:43 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Finland same issue




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 27
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:24:13 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
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Status: offline
based on Huns in transit pool its been going on for long time.

Possibly back here when MT posted this on tech forums. Turn 35

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3205038

Its been wierd because one turn my OOB dropped 100k in a single turn right after that and has been slowly dropping every single even with very light combat tempo.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/29/2012 10:27:27 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 28
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 10:38:53 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5885
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Ok possibly on turn 58 it started.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3160670&mpage=4&key=

post #93

Then the next turn post #95

A drop off of 104,000 men that could possibly be the turn.

I also posted combat loses and they were 45k total no wheres near 104k

My OOB was static before that, I also have 60-90k of armaments in pool.


Dec 8th ish

My OOB should be just under 3.8(3.75) million and not 3.45

Based on loses per turn mud turns and new divisions arriving

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/29/2012 10:47:04 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 29
RE: Manpower Bug? - 12/29/2012 11:09:03 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2370
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
I don't have any issues with the game. All seems fine to me.

Get on with it or resign.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 30
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