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RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please.

 
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RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/11/2013 10:38:08 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 2501
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192

Never got to the level of the heavy tanks, I usually get tired at times and wanted to start a new game. Will keep a close eye on raw and I forgot roads and rails cost raw. Its pretty hard on Stoneage+expensive research+high production cost. I mean I only produce a meager amount of PP and I have to think if I will save it up for an upper hand against my opponent (early machine gun/infantry gun or something) or use the PP and raw to upgrade my raw resources


I think most human players go for cavalry.


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RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/11/2013 10:53:59 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 811
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		I'm trying the officers for the first time in the new dawn random game. I keep seeing where people are saying the max for the officer is 25 staff but no where do i see this written in the readme which comes with each patch or beta. Tell me if I'm wrong, but the HQ starts out with 0 for morale and combat modifier where as the old way you would have a staff total of 200 and there would be a percentage for both. so the only reason to create more staff is now to create more HQ with generals.

It seems that the only time they gain experiencing is when the HQ itself is attacked, I was under the impression that when their subordinate units are attacked they gain experience points, is this correct. I normally don't play the random games, but with the addition of officers, this has peeked my interest.

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 32
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/11/2013 11:42:25 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline
The Officer attributes could use some further explanation. I believe 1 staff = 10 staff points. If you mouse over the officer attributes you'll see a brief explanation of what it is. Attached is screenshots of some officers from a current random game I'm playing. The officer with the most experience has been leading troops in constant combat for several turns. The officers with no experience haven't seen much combat as yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

I'm trying the officers for the first time in the new dawn random game. I keep seeing where people are saying the max for the officer is 25 staff but no where do i see this written in the readme which comes with each patch or beta. Tell me if I'm wrong, but the HQ starts out with 0 for morale and combat modifier where as the old way you would have a staff total of 200 and there would be a percentage for both. so the only reason to create more staff is now to create more HQ with generals.

It seems that the only time they gain experiencing is when the HQ itself is attacked, I was under the impression that when their subordinate units are attacked they gain experience points, is this correct. I normally don't play the random games, but with the addition of officers, this has peeked my interest.






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Post #: 33
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/12/2013 4:40:44 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 1799
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		"...The Officer attributes could use some further explanation. I believe 1 staff = 10 staff points..."

You're right about that!  

With 1 staff = 10 staff points, do you mean max staff = 61 would mean 610 staff? Probably less I reckon.

I'm at a loss however over your screenshot, the highest lvl Officer only has 61 max staff? Where the lvl 2 Officer Qong Ping already has 82 max staff... or does it have to do with the latest patch, and has promotion/leveling become random?

(in reply to Webizen)
Post #: 34
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/12/2013 8:35:52 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 3993
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		When you look at a headquarters with out staff the number is 10 times the number of staff that can be handled. The 62 is how many staff he can lead.

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Post #: 35
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/13/2013 12:23:37 PM   
Vic


Posts: 3407
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

When you look at a headquarters with out staff the number is 10 times the number of staff that can be handled. The 62 is how many staff he can lead.


I think in the next version i'll remove any reference to staff points since it is confusing players quite a lot.

Behind the hood the staff SFType has 10 staffpoints, meaning it can give supervision to 10 power points of regular troops. Behind the hood a starting officer has around 500 staff points meaning it can give supervision to up to 500 staff points of the staff SFType. I used staff points because in theory it is possible to have several different types of staff SFTypes that have different staff points.

Anyhow next version i'll just notify the player howmany staff individuals (troops) the leader can supervision too and shut up about the staff points :)

Thanks for the continueing feedback.

best,
Vic

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Post #: 36
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/13/2013 6:02:26 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 1799
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Phew, I think that's a wise decision because when oldhands like us get confused about Staff and Staff points, what about the new players? They may even stop playing the game because it's too bewildering for them.

/meanwhile I love the addition of Officers, one fell off a tank bruising his ribs sending him straight to the hospital, pretty nurses and some well deserved r&r in Paris. Love it.

< Message edited by Josh -- 1/13/2013 6:05:52 PM >

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Post #: 37
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/13/2013 6:39:01 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 340
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		1-What about promoting common HQs? Maybe when one of these units reaches a high number of experience points the player have the option to promote it to officer. It´s supposed that officers have been subofficers before.

2-Officers (admirals) or subofficers ("sub admirals") embarked in warships or submarines (it will be neccesary to give them a little cargo capacity) could be a good idea to give combat bonus to vessels. These kind of officers (admirals/"sub admirals") can be the only ones to give bonus to ships (never to land units).

3-The possibility to change officers names.

4-The option to detach officers from HQ units, It gives the opportunity to attach leaders to different HQs. They can also be manually detached (ie both a jeep and a officer detached to scape when things go wrong). An officer can be transfered to other unit just like other staff. In some way the officer becomes a special individual unit.

During a war is quite usual to assign officers to different places and HQs. Imagine you have an experienced common HQ (formed by subofficers), then you decide to attach them a veteran officer: all units assigned will have excellent bonus for combat, good officers in company of good subofficers is a powerful mix.

Another example: Your capitol is being attacked by enemy forces then you decide to attach your best officer to the HQ located in the city to get a stronger defense. The officer is far away commanding an attack at the north, fortunately you have plenty of trains to transfer him there in the same turn. For the next turn units assigned will drop their readiness due to change in command.

5-A new level gained for inactive officers (located in officers pool) when a new staff research is reached. Example: You have got the research Staff III, then your officers located in the pool could get an additional experience level. To get that level the officer must be in the pool during five consecutive turns. A 0 level officer will require 10 consecutive turns to get the second level allowed for Staff III. This rule simulates the improvements in officers academies and time required to study.

6-The possibility to paradrop HQ units (only air officers), very useful to command paratroopers behind enemy lines.

7-Air officers who stands in airbases/cities/aircraft factories could give their bonuses to planes assigned.


< Message edited by Jafele -- 1/14/2013 9:33:45 AM >

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Post #: 38
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/14/2013 7:31:58 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 811
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		I don't know if this question has been answered or not. I'm curious, in the editor it appears one can add officers to each regime. Are we now able to add officers in a regular game not just in the random games. Also part of my previous question regarding officers was answered, and thanks but the second part of it was not. Do officers only gain experience when the HQ they are attached with come under attack or do they also gain experience when one of their subordinate units are attacked as well. Thanks

(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 39
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/14/2013 8:54:44 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Re: Do officers only gain experience when the HQ they are attached with come under attack or do they also gain experience when one of their subordinate units are attacked as well?

Officers have the opportunity to gain experience when the units they command are engaged in combat, both offensive or defensive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

I don't know if this question has been answered or not. I'm curious, in the editor it appears one can add officers to each regime. Are we now able to add officers in a regular game not just in the random games. Also part of my previous question regarding officers was answered, and thanks but the second part of it was not. Do officers only gain experience when the HQ they are attached with come under attack or do they also gain experience when one of their subordinate units are attacked as well. Thanks



< Message edited by Webizen -- 1/15/2013 1:58:24 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 4:19:29 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 811
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		thanks, it appears that this maybe rare and far between then. because my units have been engaged in combat but the officers are not gaining, unless the HQ itself is attacked. I wonder if this is a bug or is it suppose to be this way. thanks again for the help

(in reply to Webizen)
Post #: 41
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 9:25:52 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 1799
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

thanks, it appears that this maybe rare and far between then. because my units have been engaged in combat but the officers are not gaining, unless the HQ itself is attacked. I wonder if this is a bug or is it suppose to be this way. thanks again for the help


Hm that's odd. Officers don't level up after every battle (say from 5 to 6) but they do gain Exp. The higher the level gets the more Exp they need for yet another 'upgrade". In the previous patch that Exp rise and lvl upgrade was definitely too slow, my Officers could have seen dozens and dozens of battles only to see them still stuck at lvl 8 and only having a Max Staff of 60 or so... way too low.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 42
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 1:34:42 PM   
towerbooks3192

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192

Never got to the level of the heavy tanks, I usually get tired at times and wanted to start a new game. Will keep a close eye on raw and I forgot roads and rails cost raw. Its pretty hard on Stoneage+expensive research+high production cost. I mean I only produce a meager amount of PP and I have to think if I will save it up for an upper hand against my opponent (early machine gun/infantry gun or something) or use the PP and raw to upgrade my raw resources


I think most human players go for cavalry.


quote:


(in reply to towerbooks3192)
Report | Post #: 31


Cavalry was never that important to me but in a test game I think that they are really cool and could cover more ground. I just have to find the sweet spot on the number of cavs I will have in a division.

I was wondering how could I make an ordinary HQ I mean with no officers? I still have trouble trying to decide when to make a new HQ to really get the most out of it

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 43
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 1:55:23 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		If you have the v2.13 beta patch installed, one of your options is to create a regular HQ or an officer HQ.

quote:


I was wondering how could I make an ordinary HQ I mean with no officers? I still have trouble trying to decide when to make a new HQ to really get the most out of it



< Message edited by Webizen -- 1/15/2013 1:56:58 PM >

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Post #: 44
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 2:03:45 PM   
towerbooks3192

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline 		I think I have it installed I mean doesn't the beta patch contain the new dawn or something where I have officers or there is another beta patch?

(in reply to Webizen)
Post #: 45
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 2:04:41 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		With v2.13 Vic slowed down the leveling up of officers. I'm not seeing any issues here in my games. I also rarely put an HQ in a position to be directly attacked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

thanks, it appears that this maybe rare and far between then. because my units have been engaged in combat but the officers are not gaining, unless the HQ itself is attacked. I wonder if this is a bug or is it suppose to be this way. thanks again for the help


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Post #: 46
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 2:10:39 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Only the anewdawn.at2 file contains officers. I'm not certain what you are asking or what your issue is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192

I think I have it installed I mean doesn't the beta patch contain the new dawn or something where I have officers or there is another beta patch?


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Post #: 47
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 2:13:15 PM   
towerbooks3192

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline 		Maybe I missed something because when I created an HQ in a new dawn I always get one with an officer and no option to create one with none

Edit: Nevermind. I downloaded the latest beta patch and yes its in the options. I think I had the older beta patch with the new dawn and that is why I only have Formation or HQ as choices

< Message edited by towerbooks3192 -- 1/15/2013 2:36:49 PM >

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Post #: 48
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/15/2013 11:23:04 PM   
lancer

 

Posts: 596
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: online 		Hi,

The original Officers build produced identical officers (25/25). The latest build mixes it up somewhat but after playing with them for a while I'm still finding them pretty 'samey' and a little on the bland side.

Sure the numbers are different but not enough that I start thinking about which officer to put where or even replace.

It would be nice if there was more diversity and maybe even a light touch of 'colour'.

Cheers,
Lancer

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Post #: 49
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 9:07:22 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 1799
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		@ Lancer;

"...It would be nice if there was more diversity and maybe even a light touch of 'colour'...."

Maybe, but how would you acccomplish this? As it is Officers give a gret boost to units already, the cards add another boost or flavour if you want. If you want to stretch the idea even further it might become "gamey".

Hmmm, maybe maybe say if your "General" is used in lots of Land or Arty or Tank or Air battles this General might get bonusses/cards dedicated to his "specialty". In this way you could get a dedicated Tank ace General, adding maybe extra mobility or extra speed. Just loose thoughts here ofourse. 


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Post #: 50
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 10:43:33 AM   
Meanfcker


Posts: 297
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quote:

Hmmm, maybe maybe say if your "General" is used in lots of Land or Arty or Tank or Air battles this General might get bonusses/cards dedicated to his "specialty". In this way you could get a dedicated Tank ace General, adding maybe extra mobility or extra speed. Just loose thoughts here ofourse.


Very good idea.

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 51
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 10:53:04 AM   
lancer

 

Posts: 596
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: online
quote:

Maybe, but how would you acccomplish this? As it is Officers give a gret boost to units already, the cards add another boost or flavour if you want. If you want to stretch the idea even further it might become "gamey".


I was thinking more along the lines of providing a means of connecting with your officers. Perhaps something simple like, as already suggested, being able to rename them.

It's a lot easier to relate to an officer named after your favourite general or even your grandfather. They become officers that are important to you for reasons other than straight stats. They tell a story.

Cheers,
Lancer

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Post #: 52
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 12:07:33 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Naming officers can be done, just not in game as you can currently rename an HQ. That would be a nice feature if Vic can implement it. Everything 'officers' is coded in string lists and events. There is a string list of first and last names for each of the regimes. I've already made a few changes in my local copy of the game. While not certain as yet, I think you can weight the names so that a particular one is more likely to be used. In the attached screenshot "Blackwell" was an addition I made and it randomly was assigned to an officer in a test game.

In addition, by editing some event text, I've changed the leader attribute screen in a couple of areas:

"Commander is a level 0 commander" to "This officer is a level 0 commander"

and

Tsjang Li has been recruited in May 1936" to "Tsjang Li was recruited in May 1936"

Example 1: Recruited Officer

Example 2: Supreme Commander

quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

I was thinking more along the lines of providing a means of connecting with your officers. Perhaps something simple like, as already suggested, being able to rename them.





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< Message edited by Webizen -- 1/19/2013 1:40:16 AM >

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Post #: 53
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 12:56:26 PM   
towerbooks3192

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

@ Lancer;

"...It would be nice if there was more diversity and maybe even a light touch of 'colour'...."

Maybe, but how would you acccomplish this? As it is Officers give a gret boost to units already, the cards add another boost or flavour if you want. If you want to stretch the idea even further it might become "gamey".

Hmmm, maybe maybe say if your "General" is used in lots of Land or Arty or Tank or Air battles this General might get bonusses/cards dedicated to his "specialty". In this way you could get a dedicated Tank ace General, adding maybe extra mobility or extra speed. Just loose thoughts here ofourse. 




Yeah I agree Josh, I mean I would really love to get my own arty general or an admiral or if I could get officers in a field with a handful of experienced troops and win victories maybe we could get a spec ops unit with special abilities? I mean I have read in a war game a long time ago about units gaining x experience would become elite units like the brandenburgers or something. Would really love to gain some emotional attachment to a single brigade so those troops won't be just some imaginary people I will order to their deaths but some imaginary people who I will be remembering for their courageous deeds and their memories if they are dead

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 54
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 1:40:13 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 1799
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		So thinking further on this line of thought; that would mean a dedicated Marine Corps General, a Mountaineer General, an Artillery General and so forth. You put an Officer in charge of said special unit (be it marines  ) or artillery or whatever, and they get action cards which only "Artillery Officers" level 5 get ( say creeping barrage, or 24 hour barrage, you get the idea).

(in reply to towerbooks3192)
Post #: 55
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 2:21:38 PM   
towerbooks3192

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline 		Yeah it would be great if it will be like that so that the action cards we are getting will be useful and related to the work the officer was doing like it would be ridiculous to get an artillery card if you have an officer assigned with air units or an air/naval card to officers mostly fighting on land.

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 56
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 9:33:10 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 340
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		A less lineal advancement in experience level would create more original officers. Every time an officer advances level he increases attack, morale and max.staff at the same time. Why not to make it random? So he could add all his experience points to morale (100%). He could increase max staff+combat (50%/50%), increase morale+combat+max staff (33%/33%/33%), etc. A lineal learning is usual in academies, but battle experience is umpredecible. As a result of this a 8th level officer could have a high value in combat but only be able to command a few units (the classical low rank veteran, a captain if ranks are applied) or have a strong leadership (morale) but not so good bonuses in combat (a specialist in defense). Initial stats gives you an idea about officer preferences but battle experience can change it (or not). In this way you will never know what kind of high level officers are you going to find in your army (or enemy army). You create your leader while you play and you can assign to your officer an appropiate task depending on his experience.



< Message edited by Jafele -- 1/16/2013 10:58:37 PM >

(in reply to towerbooks3192)
Post #: 57
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/16/2013 10:16:53 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 3993
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		LOL, see Vic? Never satisfied.

(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 58
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/17/2013 3:22:33 AM   
Meanfcker


Posts: 297
Joined: 12/4/2011
Status: offline
quote:

LOL, see Vic? Never satisfied.


I hate to disagree, but I am very satisfied with the new patch.
Excellent work.
My only complaint about this game now, is that I have a wife and a job that keep me from playing sometimes.
Meanie.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 59
RE: Officers in ATG, your thoughts please. - 1/17/2013 5:05:13 AM   
towerbooks3192

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

LOL, see Vic? Never satisfied.



I tried to be satisfied but I guess its just human nature that I am not satisfied. To tell you the truth I pray every night to be contented of what I have and not ask for more.

Anyway the game is great and all that but I think for me all the things I am saying are just some what-ifs and it would be cool if X and Y and all that. I love Vic's work and hope that he will continue it. Its rare to find quality game these days

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 60
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