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How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You?

 
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How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/24/2012 4:21:23 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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Hi, I am enjoying the game, mostly.

But I notice that when I end my turn and the AI enemy takes his turn, nearly of all of my counters disappear from the map and I can't see what he's doing on his turn in real time. I understand that I should not be able to see what is happening deep behind his lines because of FoW. But why can't I see what's happening on the front lines to my own units?

Is the only way to know to scroll through the reports window? Because that's kind of a pain, not that much fun and--I think--unrealisting. Shouldn't a player be able to see what is happening as it happens? Not to everything, but to his own units?
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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/24/2012 5:13:03 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark
Hi, I am enjoying the game, mostly.

But I notice that when I end my turn and the AI enemy takes his turn, nearly of all of my counters disappear from the map and I can't see what he's doing on his turn in real time. I understand that I should not be able to see what is happening deep behind his lines because of FoW. But why can't I see what's happening on the front lines to my own units?

Is the only way to know to scroll through the reports window? Because that's kind of a pain, not that much fun and--I think--unrealisting. Shouldn't a player be able to see what is happening as it happens? Not to everything, but to his own units?


The preference screen allows you to set the length of delay in each operation, if when the turn is being resolved, things are happening too quickly, you may not be able to follow the action. Adjusting the delay period for AI actions in the preference screen may help.


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/24/2012 5:23:42 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/25/2012 1:13:18 AM   
Mark Clark

 

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Thanks, just tried that.

It didn't address the problem I'm having. It did slow down the AI turn a great deal. However, I still didn't see what the AI is doing.

I've been playing the gotterdamurung scenario. On the first turn, the game clearly shows me what the Germans are doing. It moves from unit to unit, centering each on the screen so that I can see what's happening. But every turn after that, it does not. I hear the sound effects but I have no idea what is being done where and the "camera" never moves. The only way to find out is to wait for my turn and read the reports.

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/25/2012 4:59:58 PM   
Jim D Burns


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I think it has something to do with FoW. I am having the same issues and turned off FoW and was then able to see things occur all over the map. I then went in and increased FoW from the default of 3 to 4 and was then able to see some but not all actions, most were still not reporting, though I did see floating text on screen telling me units were destroyed/retreated. So my guess is there is a sweet spot in there somewhere that will crank up your detection enough to allow you to see all your stuff but not the rest of the map. I'll be trying a setting of 10 next time I'm in game.

But there is also a bug at work here I think. In my current Fall Gelb game I'm playing as Russia and the Germans attacked me in January. No events or anything popped up announcing the declaration of war, and with my inability to see the battles as they occurred, it wasn't until the second turn of the attack that I finally noticed my front line units had begun to evaporate and discovered the war was hot.

So something is amiss with FoW in game.

Jim


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/25/2012 6:06:14 PM   
Rasputitsa


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In Preferences under Interface in AI combat result dialog lifetime, I have the time delay set at 4 seconds, as each AI combat takes place, I have 4 seconds to decide whether to 'Pause' each combat report and look more closely, or let it self cancel after the 4 secs.

I use the same setting for Player combat results.

It does not slow the game down too much and I can choose which reports to read and which to let pass. I am using the transparent report box mod, so that I can see the map through the combat report window and decide whether the combat is of interest, or not. I have changed the text colour from black to dark blue, which is easier to see against the Agent S map option I am using, this changes the text colour in all the game windows, but the dark blue colour compliments the other game window colours, which are lighter blues/grey and yellow. I find this combination works very well in keeping up to date with the action, always with the option to review things at any time in the main reports section.

I have FOW ON and set at 2 hexes, I find this game has some of the best reporting preferences/options available and modding the display works well. Where I am not using transparent report windows, as for unit info and purchase boxes, I use a GUI file mod to remove the window border framing and reduce the window to a simple box, this reveals more of the map (I think it looks better anyway), you can always drag the map from under the window with the right mouse button to see the units better

See discussion on transparent combat box mod.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3006547



Attachment below shows SS of reduced size box.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/25/2012 7:09:26 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/25/2012 7:35:15 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Here is a reduced size main events report box, seeing more of the map helps, as you can slide the area of the reported combats into the visible map area above the box and see what's happened to your units as you check the reports.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/25/2012 7:41:05 PM >


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Wait for Click - 12/27/2012 4:57:45 PM   
Omnius


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Under the Interface tab I suggest that you set the AI and Human combat dialgues box lifetimes to "Wait for Click". That way you don't have to play like it's some arcade game to make sure you click before the time limit expires. The combat dialogues stay up until you click them to go away.

You could set the preference for FOW range to zero just before you click to end your turn so you could watch the AI do it's thing, but then you ruin the surprise for use of FoW. It seems like you really don't want to use FoW.

Also, as Rasputitsa pointed out, you can read about all kinds of game actions in the reports menu, especially events reporting where you can see all kinds of combat reports.
Omnius

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RE: Wait for Click - 12/27/2012 6:26:41 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius
Under the Interface tab I suggest that you set the AI and Human combat dialgues box lifetimes to "Wait for Click". That way you don't have to play like it's some arcade game to make sure you click before the time limit expires. The combat dialogues stay up until you click them to go away.


The reason for setting the 4 second delay (or any other delay of choice) is not for the arcade practice, but so that the reports will self cancel after that delay, I only 'Pause' the reports I want to see in detail, otherwise I can let the AI get on with its move with the minimum intervention from me. I don't want to have to click to clear every AI and Player report, as that would reach arcade levels.


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/28/2012 12:56:36 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/27/2012 6:49:08 PM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

In Preferences under Interface in AI combat result dialog lifetime, I have the time delay set at 4 seconds, as each AI combat takes place, I have 4 seconds to decide whether to 'Pause' each combat report and look more closely, or let it self cancel after the 4 secs.


I have this setting set to 'wait for click', but I'm not getting any battle report dialogs popping up. Occasionally I get one, but 95% of the battles are not displaying a pop-up dialog. I hear the cracking sound of a battle and if the screen happens to be over that area, floating text rises above the hex where the battle is, but I see no units during turn executions (neither mine or the Germans) and get no dialog boxes for most of the battles that occur. During AI moves I do see many air reports and some naval reports for allied battles even though I'm playing the Soviets.

When I hit end turn, all the units I see on map vanish and I see an empty map with my friendly territory lit up. Then occasionally I see one or a few allied units in a small area of about 6-12 hexes that lights up somewhere (even with FoW set to 1 hex) and the map jumps to them, but there is no rhyme or reason to who or what I see of the allied units as the AI does the moves for those powers. The only time my units ever appear is apparently when the Germans make an attack or do a recon, but 95% of the time even retreated units of mine do not appear during turn execution and all I see are empty hexes.

Something is definitely screwy with FoW I think. I'm using Win 7 if that makes a difference.

Jim

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/27/2012 10:11:02 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
In Preferences under Interface in AI combat result dialog lifetime, I have the time delay set at 4 seconds, as each AI combat takes place, I have 4 seconds to decide whether to 'Pause' each combat report and look more closely, or let it self cancel after the 4 secs.


I have this setting set to 'wait for click', but I'm not getting any battle report dialogs popping up. Occasionally I get one, but 95% of the battles are not displaying a pop-up dialog. I hear the cracking sound of a battle and if the screen happens to be over that area, floating text rises above the hex where the battle is, but I see no units during turn executions (neither mine or the Germans) and get no dialog boxes for most of the battles that occur. During AI moves I do see many air reports and some naval reports for allied battles even though I'm playing the Soviets.

When I hit end turn, all the units I see on map vanish and I see an empty map with my friendly territory lit up. Then occasionally I see one or a few allied units in a small area of about 6-12 hexes that lights up somewhere (even with FoW set to 1 hex) and the map jumps to them, but there is no rhyme or reason to who or what I see of the allied units as the AI does the moves for those powers. The only time my units ever appear is apparently when the Germans make an attack or do a recon, but 95% of the time even retreated units of mine do not appear during turn execution and all I see are empty hexes.

Something is definitely screwy with FoW I think. I'm using Win 7 if that makes a difference.
Jim


I am also using Windows 7 (TOF 1.03b v3) and, with the preference configuration noted in the previous post, I am seeing the AI combats and getting the combat report window showing for each event. All units remain visible as for the FOW setting of 2 hexes and I can see the AI moves and combat arrows in the battle hex. I always start my games from the 'Custom' preference, I tried to test the effect starting with 'Quick Start', but got CTD, so the problem may be there.


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/29/2012 8:41:09 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/30/2012 9:10:24 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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This is a serious flaw in the game for me. I've tried various settings so if I am doing something wrong, I would appreciate being told, but here is the way it happens for me.

On the first turn only, the computer/AI does what it should: the "camera" moves from unit to unit and shows me what the enemy is doing to my lines. After the first turn, it always shows me air combat but only air combat. Land combat is not shown. Also, air combat always brings up a dialog box that explains what just happened and requires a click to make the box disappear; land combat never generates this box.

For a few turns, turns 2 through 3 or four, I could hear the artillery sound effect so I knew somthing was happening on the ground. I could guess where and click to that location but I would be wrong at least as often as right. And, again, there is no explanatory box.

Then, after around turn four, even that stopped. The AI just whizzes through the enemy turns as if the enemy has done nothing but when I go back and check when it's my turn again, I find my lines completely different, units missing (destroyed presumably?) enemy pockets relieved, and so on, with no idea how it all happened.

Is this the way the game was designed?

< Message edited by Mark Clark -- 12/30/2012 11:42:38 PM >

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/30/2012 9:36:50 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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Checking the reports, I see that the enemy initiated seven battles on the last turn. I saw none of them, not even an inkling. The settings are for a three second delay after combat, for what that's worth.

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/30/2012 10:49:08 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Just loaded 'Fall Gelb' in Custom Game, set France to Human and let the AI do everything else. Have run through 6 turns and it all seems to work OK. I am seeing the AI move and upgrade units, initiate combats and the combat reports window comes up.

I am sorry this does not help with what you are seeing, but this is 1.03b v3 in Windows 7 and the display seems to be normal for the preference settings I am using. There are times when the display skips around the map and nothing seems to be happening, but I expect that this is AI movement going on in areas covered by FOW.

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/30/2012 10:56:53 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Deleted


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/31/2012 3:59:12 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/30/2012 10:57:50 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Deleted

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< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/31/2012 3:59:32 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/30/2012 11:08:25 PM   
Rasputitsa


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What you are seeing is not the way the game is designed, because it works normally on my system, perhaps others can confirm what they see. It is strange that the effects change from turn to turn, this has to be an error somewhere.

When looking at the preference settings, look also at the tick boxes, these combinations may affect the display.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/30/2012 11:11:53 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/30/2012 11:45:46 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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Thanks for replying.

I am sorry but your screenshot is too small for me to read the settings. Looks like everything on the left column is set to 1 second and everything on the right is 2 seconds?

Also, I only have patch 1.02 because it's official. Does 1.03 beta fix this? I can install it if people think that would help.

It is a wonderful game, I would like to enjoy it more.

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 2:15:31 AM   
Mark Clark

 

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OK, I am quitting until I can solve this problem. Just had a turn with 13 battles, all of them unseen, my lines are in total disarray and I have no idea what happened. This is a serious flaw.

I have the settings at default so I find it surprising that I am the only one this has ever happened to.

Nice game, in theory, but playing it blindfolded is not fun.

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 8:53:43 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Do you the same problem with the initial game version 1.0 and are you starting your games from 'Quick Start', or 'Custom Game'. Point being, which ever start you use, try the alternative.



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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 11:40:25 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Deleted. trying different file sizes.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/31/2012 11:52:02 AM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 11:44:42 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Larger image




Attachment (1)

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 11:47:18 AM   
Rasputitsa


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larger image




Not convinced that it is a settings problem, as you describe the effect changing from turn to turn and you may not be interested in proceeding, but all I can suggest is a fresh start, with a new installation.

These preference settings, including check box selections, have worked well with every version of the game, now running 1.03bv3, but I have always used 'Custom Game' to start campaigns and saved games with Agent S maps and Icons, it's just possible that other combinations may reveal a problem, but I haven't seen it.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/31/2012 2:46:49 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 2:14:53 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark

Checking the reports, I see that the enemy initiated seven battles on the last turn. I saw none of them, not even an inkling. The settings are for a three second delay after combat, for what that's worth.


It's not delay after combat which controls the delay of the combat window, it is in the Interface section of Preferences (not Gameplay), AI combat result dialog lifetime which I have set at 4 secs. I don't know if this will help, but these settings have worked in all versions of the game.

'Gameplay' adjusts how things happen on the map, so you can slow down actions and movement of units under AI control, to better see what is happening. 'Interface' controls the way info boxes and windows appear and whether they self-cancel (and what delay), or require you to close them.


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 12/31/2012 3:57:14 PM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 5:13:49 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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I had that setting on "wait for click." Doesnt' that mean that the dialogue box will remain there until I click to make it go away?

Also, I have always played the game from "custom start" never "quick start."

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 5:14:03 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark

I had that setting on "wait for click." Doesn't that mean that the dialogue box will remain there until I click to make it go away?

Also, I have always played the game from "custom start" never "quick start."


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 12/31/2012 5:49:32 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Clark
I had that setting on "wait for click." Doesnt' that mean that the dialogue box will remain there until I click to make it go away?

Also, I have always played the game from "custom start" never "quick start."


That's the way it should work, so apart from a new install, I can't think of anything more to suggest.


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 1/4/2013 1:49:01 AM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
That's the way it should work, so apart from a new install, I can't think of anything more to suggest.


I can. From the patch notes:

quote:

2012-12-02 [v1.03v3]
--Fixed
Fixed problems with wrong assigned movement costs
Number of people and equipment in units now displayed correctly
Fleets without any naval units assigned are now automatically disbanded at the end of the turn
Fixed problems with calculating terrain type modifiers for defenders
Improved issues with wrong display of the fog of war
Some fixes with the stability
Fixed display of air superiority

--Gameplay
Now if a unit is returned to the forcepool with a commander, then the commander is reassigned from the unit
Changed supply schedule, now convoys are perforemd after selecting supply sources by units
It is nowpossible to see full description for all events

--Features
It is possible now that the Disembark will fail every time a unit will try to unload from a sea zone where enemy fleet has got advantage

--GUI
If a unit is hidden under the Fog of War, then clicking on a hex with that unit does not reveal Unit Panel

--Other
If unit has got -1,-1 coordinates assigned it is always put into the reserve, even if the proper value is not entered
Windows 8 compability


I suspect the problem Mark and I are having with FoW comes from the bolded part of the above notes. I know I'm running the latest official patch version (1.02 I think) and not the beta patch so perhaps upgrading to the beta will fix things. Guess I'll dump my save game do a reinstall and upgrade to the beta. I should know if the problem is solved as soon as war starts in my new game.

Jim

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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 1/4/2013 9:21:55 AM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Guess I'll dump my save game do a reinstall and upgrade to the beta. I should know if the problem is solved as soon as war starts in my new game.
Jim


The game saves are not held in the TOF folder, but in 'My Documents/My Games/Saves', which means a re-install, or second install to a new named (TOF 2 ?) folder, should be able to access your previous saved games. I have one game save which I have been playing through all the versions of TOF from 1.0 and now in 1.03bv3.

I have installed new updates of TOF under different names and have 4 versions on the HDD, which all access the saved games. Games started in newer versions, may not play in older versions, but provided a game is played and saved through each new update it seems to be usable.


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 1/4/2013 9:23:26 AM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 1/4/2013 10:04:40 AM   
Jim D Burns


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I deleted everything including the saves folders, just to be safe. So far things are looking better as I see my units while the Germans and Allies are fighting and during the Finnish and Rumanian wars I saw my troops and the enemy troops so I think 1.03 fixes the problem. I left all the settings as they appear by default, after the main war breaks out I may tweak some to see if I can make things disappear again.

On a side note the Rumanian event appears to be broken. I demanded Bessarabia and they refused. I declared war and they chose to back down, but the war was still hot and I had to conquer them to end it. So the option they took to back down is apparently busted.

Also I have no option to set balanced, harsh, etc. exploitation like the Germans do for their conquered territory and only get 4 of the 30 PPs... It'll take years just to pay for the repairs for my units losses.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 1/4/2013 10:06:56 AM >


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RE: How Do You See What the Enemy Does to You? - 1/6/2013 8:43:54 PM   
Mark Clark

 

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A reinstall and a patch to 1.03 seems to have solved the problem. Although strangely, FOW is on for the UK during the German turn. Meaning, when I am playing the UK and the Luftwaffe attacks allied air units, FOW grays out what is going on in the UK. On the Eastern Front, however, I can see what's going on now.

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