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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Conflict of Heroes Series >> Mods and Scenarios >> Help with roads

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Help with roads - 12/24/2012 4:25:25 AM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

So i trying to make a map. what ever i try the roads just don't turn out. I started with paintnet and now i'm trying gimp2. I start by opening the template in the manual folder, adding a layer that is the map i want to draw and then adding a blank layer to draw on. I use the dropper to sample the color from the coh map palette and use the pencil to draw the roads. I've tried various sizes and tips for the roads. I delete the map that i'm copying and flatten the other 2 layers and save as a jpg. The map parses just fine, i guess but the roads are always messed up, straight lines are curled, sections are missing and it ends up looking like an ink blot. I'm trying to do a Bastogne map so roads are important. Any advice, tips, tricks basically anything that you think will help. This is my first shot at doing a map, i'm a bit frustrated having spent the last 8 hours on just the roads. Gotta start somewhere. Thx for any help you can provide.

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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

Post #: 1

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 4:42:02 AM

Jamm

Posts: 306
Joined: 10/2/2009
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The roads will not ususually be straight in the 3d map
And the road flows into the center of hexes so sometimes it looks zig zaggy.
If this is what you mean.
Maybe post a pic

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When the going gets weird,... the weird turn pro

Hunter S Thompson

(in reply to **budd**)

Post #: 2

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 4:44:03 AM

junk2drive

Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

Did you find the info on the wiki page? Main thing is to have antialias off so that the line that you draw are jagged. Jamm has made a few maps so hopefully he will help you.

Edit: looks like he posted first.

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 12/24/2012 4:45:10 AM >

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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Post #: 3

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 5:03:51 AM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

i deleted everything, i'll throw some roads down and snap a shot. Usually the roads are missing alot of sections and some look like interchanges even though the lines are mostly straight. I read thru the manual and the wiki several times. I saw the jagged line remark, i can't find any setting in paint.net or gimp that refers to antialias but i'll check again. so is the way i set it up and save it fine? I start with a hex map of Bastogne and then add the hex template from the manual folder as a layer and then i add a blank layer to draw on. Draw in the roads and then delete the bastogne map and flatten[i've also merged the 2 layers]the 2 layers, save as a jpg with the _input on the end and parse it into the editor. I'll go throw something together and screenshot it.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to junk2drive)

Post #: 4

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 5:12:21 AM

junk2drive

Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

Top middle dropdown

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to **budd**)

Post #: 5

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 5:31:37 AM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

thx junk maybe i'll go back to paint. This was done in gimp2, antialias was not checked. I threw it together fast, it looks close to the other input files in the map folder no idea why my roads aren't even close.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to junk2drive)

Post #: 6

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 11:25:03 AM

Jamm

Posts: 306
Joined: 10/2/2009
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OK, yeah I've had that happen to my roads before.
Once you've parsed the map, you'll just have to edit those roads in the editor.
With map tiles just clear the funky road tiles, redraw the terrain and then redraw them in the editor.
You should be able to get what you're looking for that way.
Bastogne map looks pretty cool.
Have fun

_____________________________

When the going gets weird,... the weird turn pro

Hunter S Thompson

(in reply to **budd**)

Post #: 7

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 3:26:17 PM

ericbabe

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I tried to overlay the hex template over your input map. It seems that your road lines sometimes overlap hex edges and vertices. This will cause the sorts of problems you are seeing. I've circled a few of the problem-seeming areas in blue.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 3:33:17 PM

ericbabe

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Try to make your roads avoid the vertices and running along edges. The engine works by creating a road between any hexes in which road color appears on both sides of a hex edge. So if an east-west road runs along a hex edge it will create a north-south road between the hexes sharing that edge, which is not what one intends with an east-west road. Try to make your roads look like the roads in example A below.

Example B contain roads that are logically equivalent to example C when parsed by the engine.

Also, be sure to turn off the hex grid before saving the input file for parsing. The grid might cause all sorts of problems.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ericbabe -- 12/24/2012 3:34:39 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 4:55:55 PM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

that should help, thx guys. any requirement on the thickness of the lines. Just using the pencil, [which in paint.net has no size adjustment]is fine for roads? I looked at some of the games input map files and was wondering if there is limit per hex, like putting houses in, is the best way alot of dots in one hex or is there a limit. Tree's also, what happens if i'm doing a forest, can i color the whole hex or do i put a bunch of dots in a hex to make a forest and again is there a limit. What does changing the brush size do, give me more tree's. Thanks for your patience i've never tried to build a map before, like you couldn't tell

. hope you don't mind the questions. The visual examples really helped.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to ericbabe)

Post #: 10

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 5:43:30 PM

Jamm

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Joined: 10/2/2009
Status: offline

Size doesn't matter , snicker,...
More dots in a hex do not equal more trees, houses etc.
But you can have more than one type of terrain in a single hex, as long as you have some color of appropriate terrain
eg. brown hill hex with trees and a road.

_____________________________

When the going gets weird,... the weird turn pro

Hunter S Thompson

(in reply to **budd**)

Post #: 11

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 8:33:32 PM

ericbabe

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Joined: 3/23/2005
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The minimum amount of colored pixels to trigger terrain is very small. I can't remember what it is, but maybe something like 10 pixels, so as long as you get one green dot in the hex it'll be forest, or a road that's 5 pixels wide to trigger a road.

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Post #: 12

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 9:28:08 PM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

did something change with the update? I cant get any terrain to show after the _input map parsed, nothing, no buildings, no roads, no tree's. here's some shots of what i'm doing. don't know why nothing shows up. top shot is my setup, reference map, then hex template, and a top layer to draw on. I have antialiasing off. Nothing shows up, i'm not doing anything different than yesterday? any idea's

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Post #: 13

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 9:44:48 PM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

well got stuff to show on map, hmmm only thing i did differently was name the file rather than leave it untitled_input. No idea what else i did different, something i sure.Well now i'll take my time doing it.

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Post #: 14

RE: Help with roads - 12/24/2012 9:46:45 PM

junk2drive

Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

I make the obvious mistakes. Saving to the wrong folder, saving with the wrong name, forget to put new files in place of old ones, forget to point to the new files if the name has changed. Check the time stamps on your files and make sure they are the newest.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to **budd**)

Post #: 15

RE: Help with roads - 12/25/2012 12:17:41 AM

Ratzki

Posts: 315
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Chilliwack, British Columbia
Status: offline

I have had Paint.net change the colours slightly when it converted the file to a .jpg file. I don't know why and the colour change was only noticable when checked inside Paint.net program. Alot of times it will fix itself if I reflatten and safe again as a .jpg.

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Post #: 16

RE: Help with roads - 12/25/2012 10:43:07 PM

ericbabe

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Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline

Make sure you're using the editor with 3D graphics and not with the paper maps. I think there might be some graphics things that don't update properly when using the paper maps; I saw some weirdness when using this mode in the editor the other day. I'll try to fix this for the next big update.

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Post #: 17

RE: Help with roads - 12/26/2012 12:51:47 AM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

havent really got that far yet.is there more info on the editor? nothing in the wiki that i saw. The pdf in some parts are really hard to read and its sideways in some parts. Is there a better source to aquire the pdf.

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Post #: 18

RE: Help with roads - 12/26/2012 4:58:31 PM

ericbabe

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I didn't know some pages in the PDF are sideways. I can't remember who put this together. There isn't really more information on the editor than this at the moment. If there is continued interest in this, I'll update the wiki as time permits. Feel free to post questions here and I'll try to answer them as best I can.

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Post #: 19

RE: Help with roads - 12/26/2012 7:03:33 PM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

thx will do. Well i can flip the page but doesn't make it easier to read. The info doesn't seem very in depth. I'm not that far and I'll be using paint trying to get the map done for awhile, if i get far enough i'll ask away. thx.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to ericbabe)

Post #: 20

RE: Help with roads - 12/26/2012 7:12:15 PM

junk2drive

Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

One thing about Paint.net is that a lot of things are turned on by default. There is a forum with lots of tips and plugins that can help.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to **budd**)

Post #: 21

RE: Help with roads - 12/26/2012 8:10:27 PM

**budd**

Posts: 930
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

yea i have to turn off antialias everytime and i'm by no means any kind of expert with paint, so any shortcuts on how to do things are a always appreciated.

question: My plan is to put down the main bastogne roads first, then the secondaries and then move on to terrain and then towns and so on. I did the main road net in paint and imported it into the editor i'm mostly happy with the basic turn out. some roads are to swiggley, how do i erase the road in the hex and add a straighter road connection? I see the map tiles in the editor but haven't been able to add or subtract any terrain or anything in the editor, just see red squares. I think this is the part of the pdf that is blurry, i'll look and see if there is anything i can make out in the manual.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to junk2drive)

Post #: 22

RE: Help with roads - 12/27/2012 2:01:14 AM

junk2drive

Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

In my shot there is a beaker next to the AA setting. You may need to change that to overwrite. The magic wand is cool for removing a background. Flood fill can sometimes bleed into something that you don't want. Use the undo and then try different % tolerance.

I find that the wiki is easier to read than the manual. Jamm seems to have mastered things and Double Deuce has made a couple. Just keep poking and prodding until something growls at you. Instead of making your accurate Bastogne map, just throw together a practice map to test out the technique, then go back to your Bastogne map.

The bad thing about hex maps is that there are few straight lines. Squares games are worse. Look at the hex grid. You'll probably find only one direction that you can make a straight line.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to **budd**)

Post #: 23

RE: Help with roads - 12/27/2012 3:43:30 AM

Jamm

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Joined: 10/2/2009
Status: offline

I don't think there are any straight road tiles in the 3d editor.
I agree with Junk, just keep playing around and you'll get what you want in the end.
Also, it doesn't hurt to go poking into the game files and see how things are done in there.

_____________________________

When the going gets weird,... the weird turn pro

Hunter S Thompson

(in reply to junk2drive)

Post #: 24

RE: Help with roads - 12/27/2012 4:06:13 AM

junk2drive

Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

I looked in SPWAW for a Bastogne map and found one nearby with snow terrain and this one in Noville with slight snow. Just to show what another hex game does. Note the hex direction determines the straight roads.

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Post #: 25

RE: Help with roads - 12/27/2012 6:26:29 AM

Ratzki

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From: Chilliwack, British Columbia
Status: offline

I would play with the image of the map that you are trying to recreate by rotating it to best align it to the direction of the hexes. Just fudge a little with what does not suit your needs.

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Post #: 26