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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change?

 
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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/12/2013 1:58:40 AM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Dave,

Glad you found the problem...I think. I've been having the game crash more frequently...it seemed the problem cropped up while the game was running and I placed several orders in quick sequence or tried something complex, like banding together units, but recently its been happening when the game has been paused and I've placed a relatively simple order, like move to a single unit.


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Post #: 31
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/12/2013 4:50:03 AM   
Thomasew

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/5/2012
Status: offline 		Hi Dave,


I've also experienced 'Time Management' issues with the new patch. i.e. " .... has abandoned it's Move Mission - Lack of Time!"

e.g. Battle of the Roadblocks

As can be seen in the pic, the very first thing that I do, is give CCR 9 a movement order .. to the area marked by the Destination Box.

However, depending on the setting of Orders Delay, .. this Movement Order will either work, .. or result in the ... Lack of Time problem.

At Orders Delay settings of None, Partial, .. or, Painfully Realistic .. the Move Order is executed fine. At Orders Delay settings of Regular or Realistic .. the Move Order is Not executed due to a Lack of Time .. and CCR 9 then temporarily Bunkers down.

However, if I increase the End Time by >25 mins in Regular Delay, .. or >40 mins in Realistic Delay, .. the Move Order is executed fine.

Does this not suggest, that something, relating to time, .. is not being calculated correctly?

The other thing I've noticed, .. is that, if I click, drag and move the destination ... closer to CCR 9, or further away .. the End Time is not being re-calculated. So, it's obviously not dynamic. You have to delete the Move Order, .. and re-create it at the new destination.

I haven't tried to test this 'Time Issue' with anything other than a Move Order, but, I assume that similar problems would exist.


Cheers
Tom




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< Message edited by Thomasew -- 1/12/2013 5:26:08 AM >

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Post #: 32
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/12/2013 8:38:18 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16446
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Well the end time used is based on an estimate and yes this can sometimes be out. The old way of always putting the end time equal to the scenario end introduced worse problems. So that i why we have changed to this approach. If we ad time then we will complaints that forces are waiting around all the time. So it's a balancing act. Perhaps what is needed is a task option that allows for automatic slipping of player created Move tasks.

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Post #: 33
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/12/2013 10:23:39 AM   
Renato

 

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Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Milano, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Hmmm..if thats the case I'm not sure that it should cancel the order altogether as it's not really the players fault. Either the game should give the estimate with a couple of hours added on or it should just inform you it's slipped but carry on with the order.


Well the game should do the latter - ie automatically slip the time. I have tested this here and that is what is happening. If you have a case of where this is not, then send me a save. I need it before the task time runs out for the first time.


I've seen another case in which a unit cancels its task a few game minutes after a Move slippage. Unfortunatly, I'm not able to replicate it, even after many attemts. I hope to find a reproducible case, but it will not be easy.

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Post #: 34
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/12/2013 10:33:20 AM   
Floyd

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline 		This is not directly related to this patch, but if you order an artillery bombardment as first order in a
fresh started scenario (when the time is still paused), you cannot give orders with multiple waypoints thereafter.

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Post #: 35
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/12/2013 12:45:48 PM   
Arjuna


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From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Floyd,

mmm...so it does. OK I'll check it out. Thanks.

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Post #: 36
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/16/2013 6:04:38 AM   
Renato

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Milano, Italy
Status: offline 		In the scenario Race for Bastogne, Exit order doesn't seem to work properly: KG Holtmeyer HQ exits first (instead of last) and its subordinate units remain on the map.




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Post #: 37
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/16/2013 3:25:02 PM   
rfrizz


Posts: 69
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline 		Would it be feasible to release another slipstream beta that has an option to increase the autosave frequency? Maybe it could autosave after issuing a command.

If this is possible within the architecture, and players are willing to activate it, the problem of not having two close saved states for examination could be eliminated.

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Post #: 38
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/16/2013 8:05:04 PM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rfrizz

Would it be feasible to release another slipstream beta that has an option to increase the autosave frequency? Maybe it could autosave after issuing a command.

If this is possible within the architecture, and players are willing to activate it, the problem of not having two close saved states for examination could be eliminated.


+1

would make for a good command line option, for debugging purposes.

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Post #: 39
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/16/2013 10:47:47 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16446
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Status: offline 		First off saving after a command has been issued is not that useful for bug finding. What is useful is having a saved game just before you issue the commands. The rerason for that is that when you issue an order the AI then immediately develops the plan and it's that porocess that usually needs to be stepped through.

However, I agree that some enhancements to the autosave feature would be good, like being able to set the frequency and perhaps also the number of saves you want to maintain - eg last ten. I am a bit loathe to allow an unlimited number of autosaves less we end up with users complaining their hard drive is full.

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Post #: 40
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/16/2013 11:28:36 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16446
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Just took a quick look. The easiest thing to do without major surgery to the code is to allow for a fixed number of autosave files at a fixed time period. Currently the time period is every 20 minutes of real time. I propose storing 10 saves. That way you get saves for the last three hours of play. I propose resetting the count each time you load a save or start a new scenario. When it goes to do the autosave it will increment the count till it reached 10 and then start back at 1 again. It will append the count to the file name - eg "Autosave #1". Any existing save of the same name will be automatically overwritten.

How does that sound.

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Post #: 41
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 12:37:17 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		If it's going to take you away from other matters I'd rather you left it alone, really it was an idea (well when I mentioned something similar a few days ago in the Beta Attack bug thread)to help you in testing for bugs..I'm not sure the autosave every twenty mins and saving the last ten will help with that regard. Rfizz I think is mentioning it for the reason so I presume would say the same thing, if it wont help in testing then turn your attention to other bugs and the other games.

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/17/2013 12:41:11 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 1:57:30 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16446
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		I think having ten past saves will help. I have already implemented it and am testing it as I type. So the real question is at what frequency. I just tried adding a text box on the options tab to set the frequency interval but I have run into an issue with the UI focus and will need Paulk's help to resolve that. But I can easily change the hard coded interval, currently set to 20 minutes.

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Post #: 43
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 2:28:22 AM   
wodin


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Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		If it's for more testing purposes maybe every 5 mins playing time..that gives 50 mins of saves. That shorter the time the more likely it will catch something..Plus for the player it's unlikely they will need anything longer than 50 mins playing time worth of saves.

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Post #: 44
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 4:31:08 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16446
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		If we keep 20 saves then I might agree but depending on how fast the game is running 50 minutes of real time may only go back a day in game time and that might not be enough to catch some decision points. What about a compromise of 10 minutes. On the other hand everyone has big hard drives now so perhaps we could have an interval of 5 and maintain twenty saves. What do others think?

BTW my test just finished and it works fine. So we just need to settle on the values for interval and number of saves to keep.

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Post #: 45
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 5:36:30 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1378
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Save files here aren't really big so I don't see why they should be limited at all.

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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 6:56:56 AM   
Arjuna


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Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		If we don't limit them at all then you will get someone who will complain about running out of disk space.

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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 7:40:16 AM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		yeah 20 saves..sounds good to me..

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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 8:07:58 AM   
phoenix

 

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Status: offline 		20 at 5 is fine.

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Post #: 49
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 2:07:56 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1378
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Even when the save size reaches 1MB per save and we would save every 5 minutes with an unlimited amount of saves it wouldn't be enough to cause problems, who runs so low on disk space that he can't spare 4+ GB at the worst estimate.

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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 8:36:54 PM   
BofH

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/12/2009
From: Australia
Status: offline 		If possible the solution to the question is to add a preference setting for number of saves / disk space max to use for saves. (Or making a relevant entry in a text file which gets read by the game at startup). Of course if this is going to take valuable dev time then I think setting it at 20 saves is OK. Given the number of times saves are requested for bug-hunting it's a great addition to the game to have multiple auto-saves.

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Post #: 51
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/17/2013 9:41:07 PM   
Arjuna


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From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		OK I have opted to go for a 5 minute interval and have 20 saves. Done and dusted.

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Post #: 52
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/30/2013 11:34:22 AM   
Renato

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Milano, Italy
Status: offline 		The patch 4.4.256 doesn't change the two problems reported in my email dated 13/1/2013 and in Post #37 of this thread.

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Post #: 53
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/30/2013 1:11:52 PM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		Renato if you have a save send it to Dave.

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Post #: 54
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/30/2013 7:47:14 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2941
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Public Beta v4.4.256

Still have concerns on how routing units is handled in the game. While routing distance wasn´t a problem for me so far, it´s still the oftentimes routing of units towards enemies, or into enemy territory. In my last test play today, I had a friendly unit routing, literally ping ponging between the frontlines and enemy units, as it hasn´t had the slightest idea about frindly and enemy lines.

IMHO, when it comes to routing paths, cover terrain and enemy AperFP should really come secondary. The main hook should be the friendly superior HQ (in organic COC), or the Base unit maybe. THEN a covered path THERE TO should be next consideration.

As a further side effect of routing units far into enemy terrirory, is that it gives a "free" advance guard, once this unit recovers. This unit then is capable to interfere with supply lines and also provide a nice FO for bombarding rear area units, that would be otherwise out of sight and safe.

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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/30/2013 9:49:58 PM   
Arjuna


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From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		RH,

I need a save where this occurs if I am to get to the bottom of it.

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Post #: 56
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/30/2013 11:27:43 PM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

RH,

I need a save where this occurs if I am to get to the bottom of it.


Save files sent.

Here´s the situation showing german infantry coy 2.752 routing, with possible move to lacations marked by yellow arrows. I´ve rerun my save from before the route several times, so got my results from there repeatable.






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Post #: 57
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/31/2013 9:33:06 AM   
Renato

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Milano, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Renato if you have a save send it to Dave.


Hi wodin.

Done, but I'm afraid Arjuna has more meat than what he likes.

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Post #: 58
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