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Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback

 
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Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback - 12/24/2012 3:31:30 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Now that we have the public beta patch #4 out, if you discover anything that's not working as you would expect then please report it, either in an existing Patch #4 thread or in a new one you create. When creating a new thread use the prefix "Patch #4 - " in your title. Eg "Patch #4 - Not enough Halting" (Hey I couldn't resist)

Now if this feedback is to be of use you need to be as specific as you can. Eg don't just say "not enough halting" but rather in this particular case I would have expected this particular unit to have halted. Upload a saved game. Without a save I cannot track it down. The save needs to be taken from before the event. Preferably immediately before, so I don't waste a lot of time to get to the event. So save early and save often, particularly before you issue new orders.

Aslo a picture tells a thousand words, so include a screen dump in your post and if possible annotate it, highlighting the unit(s) concerned. Yopu can create a screen dump at any point in the ngame by hitting the Print Screen button. This will copy the screen to the clipboard. Just open up you favorite picture editor, paste and save. I use PaintShop Pro for this but MS Paint will do the trick too.

Then make sure you explain what happened prior to the event. Note whether you interacted with the game at all - eg issued orders, selected unit etc.

Lat but not least, be patient. I may not get to your issue straight away, but I will endeavour to in due course.

Thanks.

_____________________________

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www.panthergames.com
Post #: 1
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/24/2012 8:54:01 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Well, here's a little starting query. This didn't happen before. I click on a unit and give it a Move order and the default end is given as only 1 hour later. Is that intentional? I actually would prefer it that way (instead of having to click down from the previous default - the scenario end). But just so you know.... Here's a screen shot. Nothing has happened before this. This is the very first thing I've done!




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/24/2012 9:14:32 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Yep I changed it. We previously used the scenario end but that was a hang up from earlier days, when we did not have scheduling code that extends move tasks. Now that we do, I am using the estimated route duration plus an estiomate of the orders delay.

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Post #: 3
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/24/2012 9:29:42 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Brilliant. I like it. The patch makes a difference, I think, so far. In the above Hofen scenario - which I tried only 2 days ago, so I could compare - 2 units from the 753, tasked to attack Hfn nth, routed almost as soon as they were bombarded at daybreak. This time they retreated (with the same losses)! Plus, after they had been pinned by the arty I gave them different orders (to go round the objective) - 2 days ago they got stuck - halting repeatedly - none of that at all today! Looking good, Dave. Cheers.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 4
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/24/2012 9:51:56 AM   
Topo

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		great news, thank you!

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Post #: 5
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 5:53:23 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1394
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Well I guess what I'm seeing here is the effect of the not reworked formations:
751. is attacking Höfen South in Arrowhead formation but what it does looks really strange:




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Post #: 6
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 5:57:00 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1394
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Save games: Autosave from before the formation for the attack and CH02 showing screenshot situation. Rename extention to zip.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 7
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 6:21:10 PM   
wdkruger

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline 		Am seeing odd behavior regarding slippage. Seems that when I get an order slippage message, the order of the offending headquarters is eliminated and the HQ now has no orders. Is this working as intended?

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Post #: 8
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 6:25:25 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		deleted


< Message edited by phoenix -- 12/25/2012 6:26:17 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 7:14:49 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1394
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		A follow up question to this problem:
I would like to know what formations the units that are covered by a formation order do take.

Taking this situation as example I would expect to see the co. at the tip in arrow or line formation and the units to the left and right in echelon left & right.
Should they do it so or would all units covered by a formation order take also that formation them self, in this case all 3 going in in arrowhead formation?
Also should they show the formation they take them self or the formation they are part of?
At the moment all 3 simply show arrowhead and except for the last in line they seem to be in line formation, also the "roles" look strange, the tip bat. shows "advance-guard" what seems OK but the second doesn't show anything and the last is a Line filler.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 12/25/2012 8:02:22 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 7:53:03 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6505
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		BigDuke we know only line, column and V formations where worked on so it isn't an issue due to the patch Dave obviously knows it isn't working and because we all demanded the patch constantly he released it without doing the others.

As for giving battalion formation so we have all different coy's at different formations I'm not sure this is possible..I mean how would you even begin to code it and give options to exactly what you want. The formation you asking for sounds like an arrow head on a large scale maybe..until Dave fixes all formations we will have wait and see. Until then we just have to get on with it until the next patch. Line formation is the most important I suppose and that been done. If I was you I'd go look at the screenies Dave posted of the two fixed formations then base what the others will look like...ie reverse the V formation and thats what the arrow head will look like.

Trying to work out arrowhead formation from the game at the moment when we know it doesn't work will not give you any inclination on what it is supposed to look like. I think were best mentioning things in this thread about the patch that we haven't already been told doesn't work properly, otherwise we just end up looking like complaining\moaning for the sake of it esp as in away it's our fault for constantly demanding the patch.

I hope I don't sound like I'm being off hand here, I just feel as we know Arrow head doesn't work properly and so does Dave and Dave has already told us then maybe mentioning it again because we tried it and low and behold it doesn't work looks like were being abit to picky.

I personally feel we rushed Dave for this patch and it was released to early..as patches can take awhile anyway I'd honestly rather have waited until all the formation code was done and the patch was properly tested. I downloaded it but haven't played the game. I'm just going to wait until all the formation code has been reworked and anything that may have been picked up with more testing by Panther if caught and fixed. When that will be I don't know but really I can wait.

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/25/2012 7:58:22 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 9:08:55 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1394
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Well as I heard he would only do some formations I asked if this couldn't be finished and something else(XP problem) left out but that wouldn't have freed assets that could have worked on the formation code, also at that time they wanted to make the futile deadline, plain bad luck.
Besides that he said he didn't work on the other formations, not that they won't work anymore, for my taste in this broken state the real patch should get all formations overworked, maybe they didn't work perfectly with the last patch but at least they weren't broken.

In case units really can't take the appropriate formations to form a bigger formation that is not a strait line in any form I wonder why we have Vee or Arrowhead at all. It wouldn't make sense to let the co. of a bat. form arrowheads them self so that the left and right co. delegate some of their firepower inwards, that would totally works against the purpose of an Arrowhead formations. Not to think of all around defense, the settlers didn't point their guns into the middle of the wagon fort as it simple didn't make sense.

That's why I really would like to know if sub-units on any level can take a formation that is there to form a bigger formation.

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Post #: 12
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 10:48:42 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		In general, if you order a HQ to move in arrowhead then it will deploy three guard subGroups. One will be up front in the centre, with the other two on either side of the hub. Each of these subGroups will have an arrowhead force formation. So if the subGroups comprise say a Bn then it too will breakdown into three guard subGroup, each of which will be in arrowhead.

Now there is a difference between force formation and unit formation. Under most circumstances if you specify a force formation then the unit will attempt to adopt it as its unit formation. However, there are circumstances where this will be ignored. Eg if it is retreating or routing.

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Post #: 13
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/25/2012 11:14:32 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		BigDuke66,

Thanks for the save. I have checked out that situation with the attack by the 751st Bn. Interesting. According to the data the task, formation and formation subGroups all have their formation type as arrowhead. However, for some reason it has made one of the companies a line filler. I cannot step through the code that caused this because the save starts after the formation was generated. I suspect that in part it is caused by the fact that we no longer have HQs acting as the hub in an assault. I will have to take a look at this after the break. Thanks fro bringing it to my attention.

< Message edited by Arjuna -- 12/25/2012 11:15:33 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/29/2012 6:45:41 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1394
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		My pleasure.

Now is it OK that using the line formation moves the formation box so far ahead that the attack point is now at the base(the open side of the U) instead of the middle of the formation box where it was used to be?

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Last of the Wilds!
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Post #: 15
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/29/2012 11:23:33 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Yep it is. The bounding box is no longer centred on the hub but rather adjusted so that the proper huib to front distance is maintained and the units distributed accordingly. Before the centring was causing units to bunch up.

< Message edited by Arjuna -- 12/29/2012 11:25:07 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/29/2012 12:30:18 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		I'm on day 2 of From the Meuse to the Rhine (playing sloooowly...) and so far I have no CTDs. Units still halt, and halt serially (3 to 4 times in a row) but seem to get out of it quicker, unaided, with the result that I have achieved nearly all my starting objectives, for the first time ever. Previously, I could achieve nothing because the battallions just got stuck.

I'm so unsophisticated that I never use the formations buttons, so can't help there. To be honest I haven't used the Attack button yet either because I'm trying to do everything quick (Move with relevant options ticked). I should probs experiment with proper attacks, since I believe they're meant to be quicker to plan now.

It seems better to me, so far, much better.

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Post #: 17
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/30/2012 3:42:08 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1394
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Ok thanks.
Regarding routed units, is there anything that they "aim" for?
At the moment I see some units routing but the direction they take and where the end up doesn't seem to make much sense.

I would expect to break the line of fire and the line of sight, instead in one case a company attacking Hofen South retreated North-East along the ridge to Rohren what didn't seem to break the line of sight and so even in Rohren the got hit by artillery, instead the simply should have withdrawn behind the ridge.
Another company retreated out of Monschau to the North-East right into the open instead of more East into the woods and also got hit by artillery.
Would be nice if the routing would make more sense, maybe retreating to the FUP or the HQ or something like that.

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Post #: 18
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 12/30/2012 5:00:01 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6505
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I think really they should retreat\rout to the nearest full cover behind the lines..rout is again a issue for me..can't rout start to mean when a units moral has totally broken and they run away, rather than now where they seem to run away anywhere and really it should be a fighting retreat to cover most of the time. I'd only expect a unit to rout with no moral left and out of command.

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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/2/2013 3:30:14 AM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I don't know if this is related to the patch or not...I just got the game in early December and played a couple of scenario's. I installed the Beta patch and am in day 2 of Losheim Gap as the Americans...twice now I have tried to group two or three American units together and give them orders...each time I've done it the game suffers an error and crashes. Going back to the saved versions of the game I have been able to give the units individual orders but if I group them I get the crash. It doesn't happen every time I group several units but even when the game doesn't crash I'm not sure the grouping really takes effect...as an aside, if you group two platoons or two companies together, where there is no clear hierarchy of command, does the system assign command to one or the other and on what basis?


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RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/2/2013 5:43:33 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		pacwar,

Welcome.

Re crash. I need a saved game taken just before you give the order along with a screen dump indicating which units you grouped and gave the order to. Just email them to support[st]panthergames[dot]com and a link to this thread so I know the context.

Re hierarchy. Where you group two units of the same force size the AI will determine which one has the senior commander and assign it as the subject of the task.

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Post #: 21
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/3/2013 12:52:10 AM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Dave,

Email with attached file sent. To follow up on the AI assigning a senior commander, I assume that should happen immediately after highlighting the units and if I highlight the senior command unit the others should be connected by green lines to the senior unit.

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Post #: 22
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/3/2013 5:42:39 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Yes but you need to ensure that you have the right force structure set on the display bar at the bottom of the screen. Use the one that shows current mission force structure. If you use the organic structure then this doesn't change.

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Post #: 23
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/4/2013 3:27:37 AM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Yep, got the current force structure...unless I'm doing something wrong the grouping command doesn't seem to be working.

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Post #: 24
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/11/2013 12:26:48 PM   
Renato

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Milano, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdkruger

Am seeing odd behavior regarding slippage. Seems that when I get an order slippage message, the order of the offending headquarters is eliminated and the HQ now has no orders. Is this working as intended?


I too have observed this behaviour; sure it doesn't always happen and not only with HQ, but it's difficult to nail down.

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Post #: 25
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/11/2013 1:03:21 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		I've also noticed that when you give a Move order and the default completion time is left at the new (realistic) estimate (instead of the pre-patch system where the end of scenario was the default) then if, for some reason, the unit does not complete the Move in that time it just sits down without orders and you have to start again. This is no more than happens when all orders expire uncompleted, but it happens frequently, meaning that you do have to click a few more hours into the estimate, manually, if you want to give some leeway so this doesn't happen (previously, if you wanted it to happen quicker you had to manually click back a few days - swings and roundabouts, I think). This is different to the slippage thing, perhaps, but leaves the same result - units without orders. I don't have a problem with it, though you have to watch out for it. Maybe you've been noticing this, Renato?


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Post #: 26
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/11/2013 1:47:55 PM   
Renato

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Milano, Italy
Status: offline 		Maybe, but I observed it with Move slippage only.

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Post #: 27
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/11/2013 1:59:41 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		pacwar,

Ooops I jst reviewed this threrad and realised I had not checked out your save. I just did so and got the crash. It turns out to be an error I introuduced recently with the bounding boxes. I have just fixed it but I will have to put out a new replacement exe as the build has just gone out to matrix. My bad.

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Post #: 28
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/11/2013 8:44:10 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6505
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

I've also noticed that when you give a Move order and the default completion time is left at the new (realistic) estimate (instead of the pre-patch system where the end of scenario was the default) then if, for some reason, the unit does not complete the Move in that time it just sits down without orders and you have to start again. This is no more than happens when all orders expire uncompleted, but it happens frequently, meaning that you do have to click a few more hours into the estimate, manually, if you want to give some leeway so this doesn't happen (previously, if you wanted it to happen quicker you had to manually click back a few days - swings and roundabouts, I think). This is different to the slippage thing, perhaps, but leaves the same result - units without orders. I don't have a problem with it, though you have to watch out for it. Maybe you've been noticing this, Renato?





Hmmm..if thats the case I'm not sure that it should cancel the order altogether as it's not really the players fault. Either the game should give the estimate with a couple of hours added on or it should just inform you it's slipped but carry on with the order.

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Post #: 29
RE: Patch #4 Public Beta Feedback Task End Default change? - 1/11/2013 11:15:17 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16504
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Hmmm..if thats the case I'm not sure that it should cancel the order altogether as it's not really the players fault. Either the game should give the estimate with a couple of hours added on or it should just inform you it's slipped but carry on with the order.


Well the game should do the latter - ie automatically slip the time. I have tested this here and that is what is happening. If you have a case of where this is not, then send me a save. I need it before the task time runs out for the first time.

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(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 30
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