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Unexpected movement of units

 
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Unexpected movement of units - 12/20/2012 5:55:42 PM   
Major SNAFU


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Hi all,

In the image I am including I encountered a behavior that I was not expecting. I am not suggesting a bug, but I am using this to underscore my ongoing challenge to know when to take more control of units and/or alter their parameters and when to let them go about their AI-appointed business.

The unit is question is the 318 Infantry.

Then had been fighting in the woods north of Steinebruck and I had issued an attack order to push the enemy back from the area. The assault order took the 318th to the green line. The blue circle is an enemy unit that was visible until it became too dark to see them by the 318th.

My plan and expectation was that the units of the 318th would essentially hunker down in their final assault location for the night. I was planning on issuing orders at about 02:00 for them to move North-NorthWest starting at the green line.

But, what happened was that shortly after nightfall, the A,B and C units of the 318th suddenly moved, roughly along the paths of the red arrows, to the locations that you see them in now. The HQ of the 318th didn't move (Yellow circle).

So here is what I don't understand in how the AI evaluated the position and then made these movements.

1) There is an active enemy unit just out of sight of current location (green line).
2) Shouldn't it have gone over to defense in position at nightfall?
3) Why move all of the units completely out of the woods and near the stream/village/etc.
4) Why leave the HQ alone in the woods with no security between it and an enemy unit?
5) Why leave the HQ in the woods at all? If you are going to pull the line back, the HQ should certainly come back to where it would have better communications and security.

What should I have done different?

At nightfall should I have selected the HQ of the 318 and told it to go In Situ? Should I do this for all units I want to remain in current position overnight? What operational cost is there for switching a unit to In Situ for the night and then switching back when you issue new orders?

If the answer to the above is, in general, "No", then what should I have been looking at in terms of unit status, etc. that might have suggested that I consider switching the unit to In Situ in this instance?

I love this game, but sometimes I feel the game is playing me because I haven't yet developed the skill to understand what the AI may or may not do in some circumstances. Because I lack this, I often struggle to effectively make plans that meet my expectations.

Thanks!






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Major SNAFU -- 12/20/2012 6:00:27 PM >


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RE: Unexpected movement of units - 12/20/2012 10:48:32 PM   
wodin


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I'd have put them on defense in situ at the end lines and turned OFF rest..esp if your attacking at 2.00am..I never let my troops rest near the enemy..rest really is for the rear areas out of possible attack I find..the tiredness level will drop even on defense..I think at night if you have troops not moving dug in during the night they should really gain back tiredness levels as I expect them to be on shifts on lookout..I presume thats modeled in? If not it should be..resting as is is a very dangerous thing to do near the frontline..so i hope aslong as they have no movement orders they gain back their strength nearly as quickly as resting.

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RE: Unexpected movement of units - 12/21/2012 12:56:20 AM   
Arjuna


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Major SNAFU,

I would need a save to ascertain what actually happen. I suspect that having failed to attain the objective the AI replanned the attack but because you had specified an FUP it went back to it but on the way the standard rest at night reassessemnt cut in and they went to sleep instead. But as I say IO would need to step throuigh to confirm that.

In any event I have made changes in the soon to be released patch #4 which should avoid this. Best to wait and try that out and see if it recurs. The public beta of the patch should be released any day now.

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www.panthergames.com

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Post #: 3
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 12/21/2012 1:53:53 AM   
Major SNAFU


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Hi Dave,

Thanks. Again, I am not picking, rather I am trying to understand. Your explanation makes sense. I will go back and see if I have a save close enough to replay and watch more carefully.

I know I have asked for a customizable auto- save, but what we really need is a TARDIS function where when you notice something odd, you press a key and the game jumps back in time and does an autosave ;)

I will never understand the comments by some that you just make a few clicks and then just watch this game play. I always find something to assess or reassess to get the most out of my resources while minimizing losses.

I only wish I had more time for this game. Where was BFTB when I was in university and had more time.....

Thanks for the upcoming patch. It looks a like it will be great.


< Message edited by Major SNAFU -- 12/21/2012 1:58:34 AM >


_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 4
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/17/2013 8:26:35 PM   
Major SNAFU


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I am resurrecting this thread because I waited until the .460 to return to this.

I can report after a number of gos at the St. Vith scenario testing to see if this behavior has improved.

It appears to me that it has improved. The only time so far that I have seen the HQ of the 318 left to fend for itself is when the element in front of it was forced to retreat. This, I think it fine in that this could happen where a unit in left behind in a retreat.

But I have not seen in 5 tries to reproduce an instance where all of the line units pulled back and left the HQ unprotected by itself.

So I say thanks for Dave and company for all of the hard work in continuing to refine this game engine.

_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 5
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/18/2013 1:26:23 AM   
Arjuna


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Your welcome. It give me great pleasure to hear a satisfied customer.

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www.panthergames.com

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Post #: 6
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/18/2013 2:27:43 AM   
wodin


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Dave I think 99.9% are satisfied customers. The 0.1% are probably not playing the game right:)

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/18/2013 2:28:33 AM >


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RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/18/2013 4:17:19 AM   
Major SNAFU


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Dave I think 99.9% are satisfied customers. The 0.1% are probably not playing the game right:)



I object! I am a satisfied customer and I *know* I am playing the game wrong.... ;)






(I still want the TARDIS-like saving function to document my SNAFUs)


< Message edited by Major SNAFU -- 4/18/2013 4:19:01 AM >


_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 8
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/18/2013 7:06:51 AM   
Arjuna


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From: Canberra, Australia
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If you select the Autosave option in the options tab it will save every five minutes and it will create new save up to ten times. Then it will cycle through them overwriting the oldest save.

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www.panthergames.com

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Post #: 9
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/18/2013 2:37:29 PM   
Major SNAFU


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Thanks Dave,

I hadn't taken advantage of this new option yet. I really appreciate it as I can hopefully use it to understand how to play the game more effectively.

Regards,



_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 10
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/18/2013 6:04:56 PM   
jimcarravallah

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Major SNAFU

Thanks Dave,

I hadn't taken advantage of this new option yet. I really appreciate it as I can hopefully use it to understand how to play the game more effectively.

Regards,




If I'm interested in exploring tactical options, I'll force a save of a game, and use the format SCENARIO_NAME DX-XXXX to denote the game time for the scenario.

I'll do the initial save after I've set up the criteria for the scenario (player side, orders delay, supply status, reinforcement status) but before I start the game run.

In that manner, I can always go back to the foundation battle situation, and adjust tactics from the same start situation.

The initial orders I issue would be recorded as "SCENARIO_NAME DX-XXXX(Alpha character)."

Any saves from that point (like when I have to leave the computer for another activity) will be recorded as "SCENARIO_NAME D2-1243a"

During the game, I'll usually monitor the running progress, and occasionally pause to either review unit health or to research a possible cause for an anomaly from what I'd expected to happen.

At pause I'll open the order of battle, and review the status of the order of battle down to the level I think appropriate for monitoring the tactical situation.

If I like what's ordered and the progress against the opponent, I'll either record a save with the same alpha (SCENARIO_NAME D2-1645a) or allow the game to resume from that point.

If I adjust orders during the review, I'll append an different alpha character to the save time (SCENARIO_NAME D2-1645b) to denote a change from the original.

In that manner I can watch progress and / or adjust tactics to monitor various results as decision threads to a final result.

Hope this helps.

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Take care,

jim

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RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/18/2013 7:52:30 PM   
dazkaz15


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I just mash a load of random keys, and hope I can find the one I want again

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Post #: 12
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/19/2013 12:30:45 AM   
jimcarravallah

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dazkaz15

I just mash a load of random keys, and hope I can find the one I want again


You shouldn't be so free with giving away your tactical secrets

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Take care,

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Post #: 13
RE: Unexpected movement of units - 4/19/2013 1:00:29 AM   
Arjuna


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www.panthergames.com

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